Cheap vid cam ok, but can't see video on timeline

Seth Bloombaum · October 6th, 2010, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Houchins II

...I used the gSpot. I got what I was after... but it says the codec is installed... H.264/MPEG-4 AVC...

I don't think you've said in this thread just what this consumer camera is, what is it? Is there bundled software that comes with it for importing? If so, is there an mov import available? If so, QT does have an extensive set of h.264 codecs, and your video might work in Vegas via QT.

I'm not able to play the sample in WM Player, but VLC player does play and identifies it as h.264.

Sam Houchins II · October 6th, 2010, 02:19 PM

Thanks for taking the time to check out the download and to reply.
That's interesting to me that my WM player plays the files and yours doesn't. It's a good thing mine does, or else I would have assumed it was all the camera's fault. What's VLC that you referred to?
The video camera is a $70 Ativa flip-out type on sale this week at Office Depot, model #D33F.
The camera came bundled with ArcSoft MediaImpression. It has limited video processing function (though more than Vegas seems to be able to do with my files from this camera, lol). I can "Make Movie," allowing me to drop full clips sequentially onto a single timeline with auto fades between, and then either burn a disc or save as...
When I drop a lone, 1920x1080 clip onto the timeline, I can do save as... and there are Mpeg1, WMV and QT options to save to, but none of them retain the 1920x1080 resolution. 720x576 is the max it will go.
While we're on specs, I'll restate I'm in Vegas 8c.
I have Vista Premium, 32bit,
Windows Media 11.0.6002.18111.
Thanks again for your questions, hope the additional info helps. The idea of having the bundled software convert was a good one, but it didn't pan out.
Btw, I spoke to Ativa tech support today and they were unable to direct me to any specific codecs to help me out. The first page they referred me to was for DV codecs, last updated in 2003. The 2nd site they recommended on my subsequent call was freecodecs.com, which was not a particularly good place, but it may be a variation of that phrase instead.

Seth Bloombaum · October 6th, 2010, 03:59 PM

That's too bad, that Ativa tech support is so clueless. Do they have a forum? Maybe someone has solved this one.

Um, their own import sw downconverts to standard def? That's crazy.

VLC is also known as the Videolan player, an open-source project that is a great alternative player. I got it first because I was tired of the way QT player behaves on windows, but, it's been very handy for all kinds of things. It does neat things, especially in playing uncommon codecs pretty effortlessly.

Oh, I almost forgot - it will also transcode.

VideoLAN - VLC: Free streaming and multimedia solutions for all OS!

Sam Houchins II · October 6th, 2010, 07:02 PM

I downloaded/installed VLC. Nice player.
I tried to transcode to a mov file, but it didn't work for me. Only tried once, maybe I did something wrong in the settings. I got an audio/video file to drop onto the timeline, but video was black and audio was screwed up.
Maybe I need to reinstall Vegas?
Maybe I should load up a trial 9 and see if I get any different response.
Seth, did you happen to try to drop the file onto a Vegas timeline, besides trying it in WM player and VLC?
Thanks.

Seth Bloombaum · October 6th, 2010, 09:43 PM

Hm... I'm not having any luck with VLC's transcoding either. D*** open-source software. But, it is a very handy player...

I only have Vegas Pro8 on this laptop, won't have access to my editing machine with Pro 9 till tomorrow. It only sees the audio track of the original .avi.

Gerald Webb · October 6th, 2010, 10:50 PM

On that. If anyone can get VLC to transcode anything, please show us how.
It would be so handy when you have a file that nothing else will play except VLC, to be able to render it uncompressed or anything simple that everything else will read.
Ive tried so many ways to make it work and always end up with weird file that nothing opens.

Sam Houchins II · October 7th, 2010, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum

I only have Vegas Pro8 on this laptop, won't have access to my editing machine with Pro 9 till tomorrow. It only sees the audio track of the original .avi.

Ok, I hope you have a chance to try it on V9 today. I'm kind of glad to hear you had the same symptom with your 8. At least that's a hint that maybe it's not my Vegas or machine.
Thanks Seth.

Sam Houchins II · October 8th, 2010, 10:34 AM

To add insult to injury, I've discovered that Windows Movie Maker accepts the video from this camera, whereas Vegas does not. sigh...

Seth Bloombaum · October 8th, 2010, 10:46 AM

Now on my editing machine:
Clip behaves same on Pro9e as it did on Pro8c, audio track only.

Clip opens properly in Windows Media player, which identifies the decoder as CoreAVC.

Sorry I don't have any other suggestions.

Sam Houchins II · October 8th, 2010, 10:48 AM

Vegas' "Knowledge Base" AVI file is missing the video and/or audio stream
comments that to solve avi issues in Vegas where the audio or video is not included in the timeline, use Windows Movie Maker to convert the file to DV-AVI. However, the resolution choice is limited to 720x480 with this format. I see they also have Windows Media HD 1080p as an option, but this is only 1440x1080, rather than 1920x1080.

Sam Houchins II · October 8th, 2010, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum

Now on my editing machine:
Clip behaves same on Pro9e as it did on Pro8c, audio track only.

Clip opens properly in Windows Media player, which identifies the decoder as CoreAVC.

Sorry I don't have any other suggestion.

Thank you, Seth. You posted right as I was downloading the 9e trial version. My experience is the same, in that only the audio shows up on the timeline. Sadly disappointing to me. How can bundled Arcsoft and Windows Moviemaker be more file friendly than $695 Vegas?

Sam Houchins II · October 8th, 2010, 11:17 AM

Just sharing experiences as I come across them...
I installed/ran VirtualDub. When I tried to load up one of the camera's 1920x1080 video files into VDub, I got this error message:
"VDub requires a Video for Windows (VFW) compatible codec to decompress video. DirectShow codecs, such as those used by Windows media Player, are not suitable."
This, of course, reminds me of Ed's earlier inputs, but I still haven't found where to get these precious, specific codecs :-).

Seth Bloombaum · October 8th, 2010, 11:22 AM

At least WMM transcode to WM9 1440x1080 can work. It's probably a reasonable choice for the short term, you could get some projects done, and they would look good!

But, I do agree with you, 1920x1080 native in Vegas is what you want for the long term.

As Edward pointed out above, it may be that Vegas Pro 10, to be released Monday, may do the trick. In another thread, there's a discussion of a less-hyped feature to v10, which is improved handling of h.264 on the timeline. h.264 is a close sibling of MPEG-4 and AVC, I hope it does the trick for your files.

Sam Houchins II · October 8th, 2010, 01:27 PM

Another failure.
I installed and ran Cineform's trial of Neoscene, and it doesn't even show the files in the browser as optional to encode.

Gene Gajewski · October 9th, 2010, 03:29 AM

Here's the problem. Vegas cannot "see" the video because there is no VFW-based H264 codec installed. Vegas restrict foreign codecs for avi files to VFW.

If you can play your clip in Windows media player - there's a solution. You have a DirectShow decoder installed, and we can use it.

Obviously, you need to transcode the avi file to use a different VFW format, one that Vegas recognizes. Use VirtualDub. No - VirtualDub cannot open the clip itself - it too is restricted to VFW codecs when opening AVI files. But there is another way...

Use AviSynth to create a frameserver. AviSynth can open the file and expose it to VirtualDub.

Open NotePad - create a one line script file with the content:

DirectShowSource("yourfilename.avi")

...and save it as yourfilename.avs. That's right, just that one line, that's all that's needed.

Now run VirtualDub (use 32bit version as AviSynth can't talk to 64bit version). Open "yourfile.name.avs" in VirtualDub and Presto! - there it is. AviSynth used the DirectShow codec and bridged it over to VirtualDub.

You can now use VirtualDub to change the compression - and then save as AVI file. The two best possible choices are CineForm and Lagarith. since you're using a "cheap pocket video" camera, I'd suggest that you save your bucks and go with Lagarith, it's free and it's lossless to boot. CineForm has it's advantages over Lagarith - but the differences don't merit it in your case.

The new AVI file you created in VirtualDub will work gangbusters in Vegas.

Recap - you need VirtualDub, AviSynth, and thr Lagarith codec. All are free and downloadable from the net. This is a simple little toolchain that everyone should have available - and most folks here are well aware VirtualDub.

---
Although some folks might gripe about Sony's lack of support for DirectShow codecs - I'd have to say that I don't blame them. The problem with DirectShow is that you are *not* required to use known interfaces (pins) in your codec. It's a mess.

October 6th, 2010, 03:59 PM	#18
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	That's too bad, that Ativa tech support is so clueless. Do they have a forum? Maybe someone has solved this one. Um, their own import sw downconverts to standard def? That's crazy. VLC is also known as the Videolan player, an open-source project that is a great alternative player. I got it first because I was tired of the way QT player behaves on windows, but, it's been very handy for all kinds of things. It does neat things, especially in playing uncommon codecs pretty effortlessly. Oh, I almost forgot - it will also transcode. VideoLAN - VLC: Free streaming and multimedia solutions for all OS! __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

October 6th, 2010, 09:43 PM	#20
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Hm... I'm not having any luck with VLC's transcoding either. D*** open-source software. But, it is a very handy player... I only have Vegas Pro8 on this laptop, won't have access to my editing machine with Pro 9 till tomorrow. It only sees the audio track of the original .avi. __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

October 6th, 2010, 10:50 PM	#21
Gerald Webb Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Coast Australia Posts: 1,046	On that. If anyone can get VLC to transcode anything, please show us how. It would be so handy when you have a file that nothing else will play except VLC, to be able to render it uncompressed or anything simple that everything else will read. Ive tried so many ways to make it work and always end up with weird file that nothing opens. __________________ http://vimeo.com/livewebvideo

October 8th, 2010, 10:46 AM	#24
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Now on my editing machine: Clip behaves same on Pro9e as it did on Pro8c, audio track only. Clip opens properly in Windows Media player, which identifies the decoder as CoreAVC. Sorry I don't have any other suggestions. __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001. Last edited by Seth Bloombaum; October 8th, 2010 at 11:17 AM.

October 8th, 2010, 11:17 AM	#27
Sam Houchins II Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 282	Just sharing experiences as I come across them... I installed/ran VirtualDub. When I tried to load up one of the camera's 1920x1080 video files into VDub, I got this error message: "VDub requires a Video for Windows (VFW) compatible codec to decompress video. DirectShow codecs, such as those used by Windows media Player, are not suitable." This, of course, reminds me of Ed's earlier inputs, but I still haven't found where to get these precious, specific codecs :-). Last edited by Sam Houchins II; October 8th, 2010 at 12:38 PM.

October 6th, 2010, 02:19 PM	#17
Sam Houchins II Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 282	Thanks for taking the time to check out the download and to reply. That's interesting to me that my WM player plays the files and yours doesn't. It's a good thing mine does, or else I would have assumed it was all the camera's fault. What's VLC that you referred to? The video camera is a $70 Ativa flip-out type on sale this week at Office Depot, model #D33F. The camera came bundled with ArcSoft MediaImpression. It has limited video processing function (though more than Vegas seems to be able to do with my files from this camera, lol). I can "Make Movie," allowing me to drop full clips sequentially onto a single timeline with auto fades between, and then either burn a disc or save as... When I drop a lone, 1920x1080 clip onto the timeline, I can do save as... and there are Mpeg1, WMV and QT options to save to, but none of them retain the 1920x1080 resolution. 720x576 is the max it will go. While we're on specs, I'll restate I'm in Vegas 8c. I have Vista Premium, 32bit, Windows Media 11.0.6002.18111. Thanks again for your questions, hope the additional info helps. The idea of having the bundled software convert was a good one, but it didn't pan out. Btw, I spoke to Ativa tech support today and they were unable to direct me to any specific codecs to help me out. The first page they referred me to was for DV codecs, last updated in 2003. The 2nd site they recommended on my subsequent call was freecodecs.com, which was not a particularly good place, but it may be a variation of that phrase instead.

October 6th, 2010, 07:02 PM	#19
Sam Houchins II Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 282	I downloaded/installed VLC. Nice player. I tried to transcode to a mov file, but it didn't work for me. Only tried once, maybe I did something wrong in the settings. I got an audio/video file to drop onto the timeline, but video was black and audio was screwed up. Maybe I need to reinstall Vegas? Maybe I should load up a trial 9 and see if I get any different response. Seth, did you happen to try to drop the file onto a Vegas timeline, besides trying it in WM player and VLC? Thanks.

October 8th, 2010, 10:34 AM	#23
Sam Houchins II Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 282	To add insult to injury, I've discovered that Windows Movie Maker accepts the video from this camera, whereas Vegas does not. sigh...

October 8th, 2010, 10:48 AM	#25
Sam Houchins II Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 282	Vegas' "Knowledge Base" AVI file is missing the video and/or audio stream comments that to solve avi issues in Vegas where the audio or video is not included in the timeline, use Windows Movie Maker to convert the file to DV-AVI. However, the resolution choice is limited to 720x480 with this format. I see they also have Windows Media HD 1080p as an option, but this is only 1440x1080, rather than 1920x1080.

October 8th, 2010, 11:22 AM	#28
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	At least WMM transcode to WM9 1440x1080 can work. It's probably a reasonable choice for the short term, you could get some projects done, and they would look good! But, I do agree with you, 1920x1080 native in Vegas is what you want for the long term. As Edward pointed out above, it may be that Vegas Pro 10, to be released Monday, may do the trick. In another thread, there's a discussion of a less-hyped feature to v10, which is improved handling of h.264 on the timeline. h.264 is a close sibling of MPEG-4 and AVC, I hope it does the trick for your files. __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

October 8th, 2010, 01:27 PM	#29
Sam Houchins II Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 282	Another failure. I installed and ran Cineform's trial of Neoscene, and it doesn't even show the files in the browser as optional to encode.

October 9th, 2010, 03:29 AM	#30
Gene Gajewski Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Edgewood, NM Posts: 162	Here's the problem. Vegas cannot "see" the video because there is no VFW-based H264 codec installed. Vegas restrict foreign codecs for avi files to VFW. If you can play your clip in Windows media player - there's a solution. You have a DirectShow decoder installed, and we can use it. Obviously, you need to transcode the avi file to use a different VFW format, one that Vegas recognizes. Use VirtualDub. No - VirtualDub cannot open the clip itself - it too is restricted to VFW codecs when opening AVI files. But there is another way... Use AviSynth to create a frameserver. AviSynth can open the file and expose it to VirtualDub. Open NotePad - create a one line script file with the content: DirectShowSource("yourfilename.avi") ...and save it as yourfilename.avs. That's right, just that one line, that's all that's needed. Now run VirtualDub (use 32bit version as AviSynth can't talk to 64bit version). Open "yourfile.name.avs" in VirtualDub and Presto! - there it is. AviSynth used the DirectShow codec and bridged it over to VirtualDub. You can now use VirtualDub to change the compression - and then save as AVI file. The two best possible choices are CineForm and Lagarith. since you're using a "cheap pocket video" camera, I'd suggest that you save your bucks and go with Lagarith, it's free and it's lossless to boot. CineForm has it's advantages over Lagarith - but the differences don't merit it in your case. The new AVI file you created in VirtualDub will work gangbusters in Vegas. Recap - you need VirtualDub, AviSynth, and thr Lagarith codec. All are free and downloadable from the net. This is a simple little toolchain that everyone should have available - and most folks here are well aware VirtualDub. --- Although some folks might gripe about Sony's lack of support for DirectShow codecs - I'd have to say that I don't blame them. The problem with DirectShow is that you are not required to use known interfaces (pins) in your codec. It's a mess.