How to use HD footage from Canon 5D mark ii with Vegas 9 Pro?

[Adi Head]

Hi. My girlfriend is a stills photographer and we both are seriously thinking of getting a Canon 5D mark ii digital SLR. She'll use it for shooting still, while I might take it once in a while for some video projects.

As most know, this camera has capability of shooting full frame HD video. From what I've seen, the video footage from this camera is really nice.

I've read somewhere that the HD footage shot with the Canon 5D mark ii does not have an intermediate codec (or something like that...) which means that the material has to be run through some conversion process in order to be used in a video editing application such as Vegas 9 Pro, which I normally use.

I came across this thread from about a year ago:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-hap...vegas-pro.html

but since many things change in one year, I'm wondering if maybe there has been some new developments regarding this issue, maybe more experience with handling this type of material with Vegas. Basically I'm just asking how relevant the tips are from the year-old thread on the issue and if there are people here with further tips and ideas of how to successfully use Canon 5D HD material with Vegas Pro 9.

Thanks!

[Brad Higerd]

Use NeoScene from Cineform to transcode for editing, then use the same Cineform codec (through the AVI lossless option) to render your final master. It's a very high-quality solution. And Cineform fired me last year, so I have every reason to trash those jerks!*

*I've never worked for Cineform. And their tech guy on the forum is a big help, should you have any installation/use issues.

NeoScene is a great, affordable solution.

Brad

[Dennis Helmar]

Brad could you describe the "Cineform codec (through the AVI lossless option) to render your final master" I have never heard of rendering this way. Is there a link to a description of this? I have been rendering to mp2 blueray that is described on Ciniform's site and using MPEG Steamclip to convert to H264 for Vimeo and such. This is very clean without any choppiness. Thanks, your help is appreciated!

[Chris Barcellos]

I also use Cineform to master my final version. In that way, I have the cleanest and highest resolution to convert to whatever other format or formats I go to next.

[Cliff Etzel]

Less expensive solution and truly cross platform

1) Quicktime Player (I use QT Pro)
2) Download and install the AVID DNxHD codec (free)
3) Encode the clips with MPEG Streamclip (free) at 145 8bit 1080i/59.94 or 220 10bit 1080i/59.94 - you can set a batch encode as well and let run overnight if needed.

I am doing this very thing with m2t clips using the Mpeg-2 reader from Apple ($19.99) in preparation for editing a documentary project. I'm deinterlacing & resizing the 1080i clips to 720p 110mb 10bit 720p and the clips are stunning. They play RT frame rate at Best Full resolution for Preview in Vegas Pro 9.0e. I prefer it over Cineform even though I have a license for NeoScene.

I've also run this on clips from a 5D and the encode to native is very fast - the file size grows, but you have a higher quality intermediate to edit with than editing the native footage from the camera.

[Robert St-Onge]

You might want to try Epic I from DvFilm.

A $45 solution and you render from the original

I am using it and very happy with it

[Fred Goltz]

I was wondering why people don't just edit the raw files?

[Cliff Etzel]

Originally Posted by Fred Goltz

I was wondering why people don't just edit the raw files?

The native dslr clips are highly compressed and can bring even the most up to date workstation to its knees if more than one stream of footage is on the timeline. Edius claims 3 streams but that's with no effects. And you're limited to 8 bit color only in Edius and it's been my experience it's unpolished for grading your footage (You need to go outside to grade and you're still stuck with 8 bit color clips).

Encoding to an intermediate such as Cineform or DNxHD expands the color space to 10 bit thus giving you elbow room for better image quality when color grading. Then you can edit in any NLE and on both platforms.

[Fred Goltz]

Thanks, Cliff,

So, the workflow would be something like this;

1) Take footage.
2) Import into NeoScene or ProRes.
3) Convert to manageble files.
4) Import into NLE.
5) Edit
6) Render to highest settings possible.
7) Burn to blue ray (or DVD).

Did I miss something? Get something out of line?

Freddie.

[Cliff Etzel]

Originally Posted by Fred Goltz

Thanks, Cliff,

So, the workflow would be something like this;

1) Take footage.
2) Import into NeoScene or ProRes.
3) Convert to manageble files.
4) Import into NLE.
5) Edit
6) Render to highest settings possible.
7) Burn to blue ray (or DVD).

Did I miss something? Get something out of line?

Freddie.

That's correct for the most part. Rendering out to BluRay or DVD will depend on encode rates. As long as you stay within the specs for rendering to each - specifically Blu-Ray - you should be fine.

[Brad Higerd]

Dennis,

Sorry to take so long to respond. Sometimes I forget to set the notification to send email notices when others respond. It's a short life, and I've given up trying to do everything right. That noted—

The "Cineform codec (through the AVI lossless option) to render your final master" is simply my solution for dealing with AVCHD and MOV footage together or individually. I convert my original footage to the Cineform codec set to "high" (without deinterlacing, in the case of my 1080i AVCHD footage), edit (and Cineform CC's well), then render through the Vegas AVI option— "default template (uncompressed)." Once in the custom menu, set the "video format" option to whatever you have/like. I set mine to Cineform's newest codec, and make sure to set the output quality to "high." The result (depending on the original footage) is a beautiful master that takes up FAR less space than a normal uncompressed AVI.

The master then serves as a source to create a SD DVD. Plenty of info on that topic here!

As for the quality of Cineform's codec, use the free trial and judge it for yourself:
Cineform Neoscene

Brad

[Fred Goltz]

Thanks, Cliff!

(apologies for high-jacking the thread for a minute).

[Brad Higerd]

Anyone who's written/responded to more than 100 threads on this forum is certainly guilty of "high-jacking" a few. I'm grateful for all I've learned as a result.

Brad

[Adi Head]

Originally Posted by Cliff Etzel

Less expensive solution and truly cross platform

1) Quicktime Player (I use QT Pro)

What is Quicktime Player for? and is there an advantage in using QT Pro for this workflow over the standard QT?

2) Download and install the AVID DNxHD codec (free)
3) Encode the clips with MPEG Streamclip (free) at 145 8bit 1080i/59.94 or 220 10bit 1080i/59.94 - you can set a batch encode as well and let run overnight if needed.

Just trying to make sure I understand here... you use the MPEG Streamclip software and do what exactly? By the way, I'm running a Windows XP PC computer and I'm in PAL land. My 5D mark ii shoots at 25 fps. Would that call for a different encoding?

I am doing this very thing with m2t clips using the Mpeg-2 reader from Apple ($19.99) in preparation for editing a documentary project. I'm deinterlacing & resizing the 1080i clips to 720p 110mb 10bit 720p and the clips are stunning. They play RT frame rate at Best Full resolution for Preview in Vegas Pro 9.0e.

What is the MPEG-2 reader from Apple for? Are you using this instead of MPEG Streamclip?
Are you deinterlacing and resizing with the Apple MPEG-2 reader?

When it comes to codecs, encoding and bitrates... I tend to get a bit lost, so please try to explain your work-flow in somewhat layman's terms. THX !

[Brad Higerd]

Adi,

I'd like to take a shot at helping you, but since becoming an engineer 10+ years ago, I've been forced to work in PC land. As far as Apple (and Adobe) software, after disabling the slew of automated background processing, they seem to work well. But you'll need someone on this site more familiar with Apple workflow to explain how to do what you want.

Brad

In my previous life (pre-environmental engineering), I used Mac's exclusively. But in those days, we needed lightening to power them. Lots of surge problems.