Vegas and Avid MC 5 - we did choose the right horse

[Magnus Helander]

Started using Vegas in 2003 for production company Moderna Filmer in Sweden, at that time Avid Express was just released. We considered that as an alternative to Vegas, but due to the strange "avid style" interface and conforming we choose Vegas. Now with Avid Media Composer 5 released I was very happy that we choose the Vegas route - here is the amazing "New Features" list of MC5...

> Directly access and edit RED files through AMA, without transcoding (images are scaled to HD frame size)

RED native with Vegas from version... was it 8? What's this 'no need for transcoding' they mention ;)

> Work natively with QuickTime video formats, including Apple ProRes and H.264

Full support for QT has always been in there AFAIK

> Edit video and audio by dragging and dropping elements in the timeline

Now this is a killer feature! Congratulations Avid editors!

> Keep high-end finishing projects in-house and gain great color precision with HD-RGB support (including dual-link I/O support with Nitris DX systems)

Blackmagic HD-SDI 32 bit floating point, was introduced in Vegas 8, if I remember correctly.

> Monitor video externally with support for the Matrox MXO2 Mini

Seriously - how can "external preview" be a new feature?

> Mix and match frame sizes and aspect ratios — in addition to formats, frame rates, and resolutions — in the same timeline

Has been the core of Vegas from day 1 - and also the ability to change project properties at any time.

> Take a break during long renders and have your system email you when the job’s done

Well, that's a great feature - Vegas does network renders, so you can continue editing while rendering your project. Maybe a break and an e-mail is a better feature, what do I know.

> Import AVCHD files directly from cameras and other devices

Amazing new feature which has been in Vegas from... version 7, I believe.

> Capture to and edit XDCAM HD and DVC PRO HD formats from baseband without additional hardware

Another great feature! What's this "additional hardware"? Vegas uses a $200 Raylight software plugin for DVCPRO-HD, and XDCAM MXF is native from version 9 if I remember.

> Access low-res XDCAM proxies for offline work, with full-quality audio

Sound like a great feature, in Vegas no need for proxies, however, just edit away, and you get to choose between degrading preview quailty or reducing framerate if things get too heavy.

> Import text-based ancillary data and embed it in the video signal with the new “Data Track” and SMPTE 436M support using Nitris DX- and Mojo DX-based systems

Hmmm. no idea what this is - maybe some broadcast integration thing...

> View stereo audio tracks as single channels in the timeline for easier handling

This cannot be a "new feature". Somethings wrong.

> Create high-quality sounds and mixes with support for RTAS audio processing plug-ins

Vegas has VST and DirectX support since, was it Version 6?

> Natively access and edit 4:2:2 MPEG-2 media from the new Canon cameras using AMA

Also a great new feature for all Avid editors - Vegas needs $129 Neoscene plugin from Cineform, I believe.

/magnus

[Nicholas de Kock]

Magnus I also get annoyed with people that under estimate the power of Vegas, if you don't use FCP people look down on you - in reality Vegas offers so much more than other systems. Software developers could all take a hint from Vegas. So many new features in the latest software releases has been standard in Vegas for years. CS5 can only do real time playback & multi-format timelines now while we've had this in Vegas all along.

[Edward Troxel]

Magnus, since Vegas 1 was an audio only app (video was added in Vegas 2), I believe your support for audio plugins goes back MUCH farther than that (In fact, I KNOW it goes back much farther than that).

I agree that Vegas just "makes sense". I've had do experiment some on Avid MC 4 and couldn't believe it when I couldn't move a clip I had managed to get onto the timeline with a simple click and drag (never did figure out how to move it!). In most other NLE's, I also can't believe how difficult it is to create a transition - love that in Vegas I can simply overlap the clips. Totally makes sense.

[Magnus Helander]

yes, you're right, i had the impression that steinberg VST plugs and ASIO drivers was added at some point after 1.0. Ozone is the killer plug-in for me.. /magnus

[Brad Higerd]

Magnus,

Replying very late to your comment, is Ozone a plug-in and a stand-alone audio editor? I've been on their website, and it's not clearly stated. I'm trying to determine if you (can) work with it on the Vegas Pro 9 timeline.

I'm currently editing through Vegas standard audio plug-ins and Sony's 32-bit Noise Reduction. Having been raised listening to tube amps (as a child), audio matters to me. It's gotten to the point that everything I've bought through iTunes sounds flat to me, especially on my studio speakers that scowl at me every time I pump crap through them.

Any insight(s) you have on iZotope products is most welcome!

Brad

[Chip Gallo]

Brad, iZotope Mastering was bundled with SF8 as a plug. I think based on that it appears for me in Vegas Pro (but I'm not near the workstation to check). My impression of Ozone was that it was a set of plugs too. Their stuff is highly regarded for its price range.

[Seth Bloombaum]

Izotope Ozone is a direct-x and vst plugin suite, with particular application for mastering. I've certainly used it on tracks and busses as well.

I'm a long-time user of Ozone 3, just haven't gotten around to upgrading to Ozone 4, but will. Since I have the full suite, I've not really looked at what's recently been bundled with various Sony products.

There are six modules in one interface. In order of importance (to me):
Loudness Maximizer. It will do whatever you want, very quickly. In my experience, way better than Sony's Wave Hammer (included with Sound Forge). If you want to master a music mix that will have 2.8db of dynamic range, suitable for playback in a convertible at 70mph, it will do a very good job (that is to say, less horrible than most, since these mixes destroy most music. But, it will do it well.) If you want to drop it on a clean narration track and dial in intelligibility, it will do that too, and, everything in between.

Mastering Reverb. Just a really nice reverb, which includes the usual controls plus frequency range.

Multiband Dynamics. A four-band compressor/limiter/expander, rms/peak operation.

Multiband Stereo Imaging. A four-band widener

Paragraphic Equalizer - it's good, and a must-have when you use Ozone for mastering of course, but it's not outstandingly better than other EQs. I do like it, just don't use it on tracks.

Multiband Harmonic Exciter - It does what it says, I don't have much application for it, but if you want to dial in some tape saturation here it is.

Most importantly, the control layout is straightforward, the UI is really excellent. It's not gonna' teach someone how to use a multiband compressor, but, if you know the theory of operation you'll find the controls right at hand. And, everything really does sound great. I have real reference monitors (genelec), driven by a real sound card (echo), Ozone fits right in to a pro audio workflow on a budget.

[Brad Higerd]

Chip & Seth,

I GUESS I should thank you for convincing me to spend more money. Truly, you've provided great advice! I've been learning audio editing for about 8 years, mostly from a friend with a recording studio. Ironically, he was the one who first pointed me to Vegas (ver. 3, at the time), shortly after he put the dust covers over his DAT recorders.

And, so you know, my primary reason for audio editing is for video production. In addition to the other hats I have to wear, I run the boom. I've been fed-up enough editing crappy audio that it just turned out to be right decision to grab the poll and boom it myself. Fortunately, I'm surrounded by enough gifted people that I can focus on the audio (when not writing).

As for the Isotope RX, any thoughts on that package? And am I right to assume it all works on the 64-bit version of Vegas Pro 9? (As I shared on another thread, Sony Noise Reduction is a 32-bit only plug-in that is instantly deleted the moment I bring a project into the 64-bit Vegas platform.)

Thank you both for the insightful replies!

Brad

P.S. Ironically, I love Oregon and WV. You have these things we in Florida call "mountains." We have something similar called "landfills."

[Magnus Helander]

I have ozone running on a 64bit Win7 with Vegas 9.
You can use it as any other effect on the timeline - realtime or pre-rendered.
I love the UI and that it comes with a huge number of presets to start working from.
It can lift a voiceover or interview voice track and give it punch and clarity with minimal effort.
The downloadable Mastering with Ozone is brilliant

iZotope Ozone - 64-bit analog modeled mastering effects for Pro Tools, VST, MAS, Audio Unit, and DirectX audio applications

[Chip Gallo]

Originally Posted by Brad Higerd

P.S. Ironically, I love Oregon and WV. You have these things we in Florida call "mountains." We have something similar called "landfills."

We do share the sinkhole phenomena too!

Reading the discussion reminds me that I want the Rx tools. Aside from mastering, that is where most of my audio work is focused; cleaning up after my and other people's mistakes. Maybe once the summer Theater On Ice DVD project is completed I can afford it.

[Brad Higerd]

Magnus,

Thank you for answering the 64-bit question. Now, if Magic Bullet would write the 64-bit code to Mojo, I'd be free to leave the 32-bit Vegas environment. And yes, I'm sold on Ozone. But really, Chip & Seth worked me over before you, so they rightfully deserve the commission. : )
I'd share about the "Bjorn Again" concert I recently attended, but I don't want to piss you off. I'm sure there's more in Sweden than just memories of ABBA and the Swedish Bikini Team (of which, I'd gladly take the latter).

Chip,

I remember my grandfather telling me that despite the property ownership people in the Ohio River Valley had on the record books, mining rights belonged to others—who, years ago, ruined many homes when they mined under foundations. As an environmental engineer, I still believe coal is critical to our energy need; but how one mines that stuff without damaging the environment or trapping people below the earth's surface is a mystery to me. Fortunately for those of us in FL, the shallow water table turns many sinkholes into beautiful lakes. Just have to hope your house/car/DSLR... isn't parked at the bottom.

As always, this forum is superb! Chris Hurd, if you can hear me, THANK YOU! I have plans to name my next pet lizard after you!!!

Brad

[Brad Higerd]

Wow, Ozone is indeed cool!

I threw our theme song from several years ago on a Vegas timeline, "Ozoned" it, and no kidding on the fullness it adds to the sound. And keeping the song right at the -.3 db mark without crossing the line is awesome to both hear and see. Very impressed!

And Chip, not sure how the Sony Noise Reduction compares to Izotope RX, but on the 32-bit platform, it has saved our butt more times than I can count. If Sony ever updates NR to 64-bit, I wouldn't hesitate recommending it to anyone who needs a pro-level noise reducer.

Great call guys on the Ozone recommendation!

[Chip Gallo]

Brad, most of my video is shot in an ice rink and the compressor noise exceeds any software noise removal I know of. I replace much of the camera audio with genuine MP3 music and then compress that some more. Haven't been nominated for any regional Emmy awards based on this stuff.

See YouTube - chipgallo's Channel

Glad you're happy with the software though.

[Brad Higerd]

Capturing audio in an ice rink sounds like a chore. And you're probably right that there's nothing available that doesn't introduce a 60's sci-fi sound to your audio. Might be interesting to attack it with Sony NR, then fill it with Ozone?

Ironically, one of my friends, Timothy Wilson, won an Emmy as a production mixer. When I first heard about it (from someone else), I thought people were joking. Who would've known someone who looks as dumb as me was so knowledgeable?

As for me, I have plans to buy an Oscar from a trophy shop...maybe three. They look more laid-back than Emmy's. Plus, they remind me of the little fish my buddy put in the "Cappy's Seafood Restaurant" aquarium (Charleston, SC) years ago that ate everything else within three months. Our boss was P.O.'d!

[Brad Higerd]

Quick question I should've asked earlier—

Can Ozone be loaded and used by one user on 2 computers? It wasn't apparent on their website.

I have an i7 Sony with two 500Gb drives used exclusively for field editing and a 6-core desktop, both of which are loaded with all my software.