Vegas to Apple ProRes 422?

[Paul Fierlinger]

I've been told by a client that I have to deliver my animation in Apple ProRes (HQ) 422 with four audio tracks. How should I go about this, considering that I edit in Vegas? Is there a simple solution besides having to hire a Final Cut Pro editor?

[Mike Kujbida]

Vegas can read ProRes files but it can't render them :-(
Maybe the Avid DNxHD codec will work for you?
You can find it on the Avid Knowledge Base.
Hopefully Perrone Ford or someone else who has used this codec will jump in here and help you out.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Hmm.. I don't have FCP or a Mac to test it on. I was told by my client from the beginning that I would have to get FCP if I want to do work for them -- or subcontract someone who has one to do my editing. He left out another option: I can tell him to shove it. Nothing like this has ever happened to me before. It's like doing business with the skull and bones club.

[Mike Kujbida]

Paul, it sounds to me like the client has been brain-washed into thinking that if it wasn't edited on FCP, it can't be any good :-(
If this is a client that you've done work for in the past, then your reputation should speak for itself.
If this is a new client, show them your work and say "it doesn't matter what it's been edited on as long as you're happy with the final product".
Out of curiosity, why the "Apple ProRes (HQ) 422 with four audio tracks" requirement?

[Paul Fierlinger]

Mike, that 4 audio track business baffles me as well -- it is a large foreign company I have dealt with in the past and some of their products go to TV stations in third world countries -- could that have something to do with it? I have no idea. They get films from all over the world and I understand that they have a need to unify and streamline their workflow but since this is not a problem that I can solve in a practicable matter I am just going to drop it. Thanks for trying.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Mike, I just realized I didn't answer your question properly. These people collect materials from many countries which they assemble into a single show which they edit on Final Cut Pro. What irks me is that instead of being a bit accommodating and converting other people's materials to the Mac's proprietary codec, which I understand is a simple matter, they expect the majority of producers who don't have FCP to jump through hoops to accommodate them -- and for what they pay I believe they are the ones who should be accommodating. Or since they make their programs with materials from many countries, they should have a better choice of NLE. Whatever; it's not worth discussing anymore.

[Mike Calla]

just to chime in, the four tracks of audio is a standard deliverable for worldwide distibution companies.

Channel 1: stereo left
Channel 2: stereo right
Channel 3: full Mix Minus Narration (all music, natural sound and sound effects including sync-sound on-camera dialogue/on-camera interviews (this track lacks only the off-camera narration and any voice over translation of on-camera foreign language interviews).
Channel 4: Music & Effects Only

[Paul Fierlinger]

So Mike, do you see any reason for companies like that to edit their shows on FCP, while 80 or 90% of the world edits on NLEs with non-proprietary codecs; or do I have that part wrong?

[Adam Stanislav]

Originally Posted by Paul Fierlinger

do I have that part wrong?

No, you don't. A large international company should be perfectly capable, and willing, to accept a variety of formats. And it is their loss if they do not.

[Mike Calla]

Originally Posted by Paul Fierlinger

So Mike, do you see any reason for companies like that to edit their shows on FCP, while 80 or 90% of the world edits on NLEs with non-proprietary codecs; or do I have that part wrong?

Any reason? Yes! But in fact I really dislike it when I see small scale productions advertising for “FCP or AVID only editors”. And by "small scale" I mean post productions workflows which don't need to collaborate with other video/graphic/audio/film workflows.

I can understand using AVID for high end stuff because it's so embedded in the film making/post audio protools process, etc.

But when no collaboration is necessary, does it matter so much? Maybe for specific needs, sure… but whatever…

If they are asking for prores, what I’ve done in the past is, complete my edit on (insert name of favourite app here), render to very high quality format, for me it’s been uncompressed, but something like cineform on high/film scan would work as well - and then pay for a post house/editor/student with FCP to render it to Prores. Post houses have great night time dead hour rates.

[Marcus van Bavel]

For $95 you can get Raylight Encoder which would allow you to export to Apple DVCPROHD QT format from Vegas. DVCPROHD is widely accepted as an HD delivery format for Mac.

See Raylight Encoder by DVFilm

[Paul Fierlinger]

>>>>If they are asking for prores, what I’ve done in the past is, complete my edit on (insert name of favourite app here), render to very high quality format, for me it’s been uncompressed, but something like cineform on high/film scan would work as well - and then pay for a post house/editor/student with FCP to render it to Prores. Post houses have great night time dead hour rates.<<<<<

This is exactly what I've been considering -- or buying a cheap Mac and low end FCP just to use for the conversion -- or not take the job since I have plenty of work at the moment. Otherwise I do all my work at uncompressed1080p. .

[Paul Fierlinger]

Marcus, you might have the solution I've been hoping to find! I'll look into this and thanks!

[Adam Stanislav]

Originally Posted by Paul Fierlinger

This is exactly what I've been considering -- or buying a cheap Mac and low end FCP just to use for the conversion -- or not take the job since I have plenty of work at the moment.

Well, the cheapest Mac would be a Mac emulator, which allows you to run MacOS under Windows. Disclaimer: I never tried it, so I cannot say how slow it may be.

[Gerald Webb]

One word fellas,
Hackintosh.
The legalities seem to be still up in the air ATM, Ive heard people say its perfectly legal on a Mac labeled computer......stickers are cheap :)
Ive struggled with this for a while, but it seems to me no matter how much we try to deny it, the Mac people are out there, and in great numbers, and more often than not they look at PC users as lesser life forms, and treat them accordingly, lol.
I am not trying to start a platform argument, I personally love both, and after being very comfy in Vegas for a while am forcing myself to learn FCP. I just think if you want to be good at what you do you should know a little about ALL of the major systems that the majority of people use.
Of course if money was no option, how nice would it be to have a Mac Pro AND a high end PC side by side, and all the advantages of both on call at all times.
Check this out,
YouTube - 4.38 GHz Core i7-920 King Hackintosh (Retail 10.6.1)