How to get the best of your HD footage? at DVinfo.net

Jordan Brindle · May 4th, 2010, 11:46 AM

I'm sure this question has been asked many times on these boards, but i've just spent 30 minutes using the 'Search' feature to try and prevent myself from sounding like a complete noob. Unfortunately i couldn't find what i was looking for, its mostly SD-HD questions, which leads me to assume my question is an easy one. So, here it goes.

How do i get the best out of my 1080i 50 HD wedding footage, which will be going on a DVD as HD?

I've spent a good hour messing around with different settings on a 10 second clip trying to retain as much actual/real HD quality as seen in my raw footage, but it always seems to end up looking like standard def stuff except for mpeg2 which seems to yield the best result (.m2t), but can this be transferred to a playable DVD? Also Video for Windows (.avi) 1080i 50 Sony YUV has had good results, but the interlacing shows up with every movement of my camera, im assuming there is a way to prevent this without shooting progressive?

I'm still quite new to this, and trying to teach myself as i go, so please excuse my ignorance!

Many thanks.

Thomas Moore · May 4th, 2010, 02:57 PM

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-hap...d-quality.html

condensed version of above:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-hap...ml#post1442691

HD to SD DVD - Best Methods | Creating Motion Graphics Blog | Blu-Ray DVD Authoring Menu | Precomposed

That will get you started :)

Philip Younger · May 13th, 2010, 05:38 PM

I'd just like to butt in here and pose the question is it worth shooting in 1080i, over say 720i, if you are burning to DVD? As the short answer to the OP's answer seems to be 1080i HD is only good if you are going to burn to blu ray. Are you getting any better end result shooting 1080i over 720?

Thomas Moore · May 14th, 2010, 12:00 PM

720p is still 1280x720 so still needs to be down coverted to go on DVD which is 720x480. 1080i or p is 1920x1080.

Virtual Dub will allow you to downscale either rather nicely if you follow the steps.

There are resons to shoot in either depending on your needs...

Jordan Brindle · May 25th, 2010, 08:56 AM

Wow Thomas. Well, i finally got round to reading through that HD-SD. I cannot believe the kind of hoops we need to jump through just to get our HD/high quality footage onto DVD. I've ran into a few problems with his workflow, IE: I'm using vegas/architect not adobe and Isaacs plugins for AVISynth is no longer available (I cant seem to find them any where). I'm also running out of time with this wedding. I have 90-100 mins of MPEG2 ''HD'' footage (1080i) ready for DVD(s) and it needs to go out soon.

Im wondering if its worth investing in a blu-ray and/or dual layer burner, then again most clients wouldn't have a compatible player right?

Gah, now i can see why most videographers avoid HD wedding deliveries.

Rob Wood · May 25th, 2010, 10:11 AM

"which will be going on a DVD as HD" (from original post)

...what does this mean?

1) you are downscaling to SD?
2) using a format like WMV HD DVD?
3) you meant to say Blu-ray, not DVD?

Jordan Brindle · May 25th, 2010, 10:22 AM

What i meant was, it's filmed in 1080i, but it's going onto normal 4.7gb DVD(s). I just wanted to retain as much quality as possible as it looks crap once its put onto DVD. I'm also new to this sort of workflow, most of my work in my short career thus far have been web videos so im probably not making complete sense.

Terry Esslinger · May 25th, 2010, 11:32 AM

OK, so you are shooting in HD and going to deliver in SD on DVD. So at some point you have to downconvert to SD. You can either do that when you capture via the camera (which makes editing easier on your computer) or you capture and edit as HD (strong computer) and render it out as SD (obviously MPEG2) for buring on DVD? I have found either way to yield good results. Some like one way better than others. Keep your bityrate as high as possible on the DVD for best quality (up to 8,000,000). Use 2 dvds if necessary (I have not had good luck with DL dvd).

Hope this is of some help.

Jordan Brindle · May 25th, 2010, 03:51 PM

Hi Terry.

Yes, basically. I captured and edited in HD. However, getting 45 minutes (about 8.7gb) of MPEG2 onto a DVD using Architect has naturally produced some crappy results. What i was looking for was a way to retain as much clarity (as close to the original mpeg2 clip) as possible after it had been burnt to the playable DVD. I don't know if i've just grown use to looking at it in HD but the DVD just looks crap. Is there no way to get a 45min clip looking better than that? I guess following that guide posted by Thomas is the only way right now? Trouble is its missing essential parts like the AViSynth plugins etc i need. It all just seems ridiculous there is no decent work-flow/delivery for HD footage other than Blu-Ray.

Also, interesting thread you linked however the clients would require a blu-ray player and nobody has one of those yet (at least not the majority here in the UK).

Thomas Moore · May 25th, 2010, 05:29 PM

OK, I've played with this over time and the best method I've personally found from all my reeaserch and reading and persoanl testing is this

1)Render all my HD footage whatever format into Cineform .avi's

2) edit as appropriate

3) render out from Vegas as cineform .avi

4) use the following scirpt to down convert: If it's 1280x720...

AVISource("myfile.avi",pixel_type="RGB32")
ConvertToYV12
FFT3DFilter(sigma=2.0, plane=0, bw=48, bh=48, bt=3, ow=16, oh=16, sharpen=0.5, interlaced=false)
Lanczos4Resize(704,480,0,1,1280,718)
AddBorders(8,0,8,0)
ConvertToRGB32
Levels(0, 1, 255, 16, 235, coring=false)

for 1920 x 1080 sub out:

Lanczos4Resize(704,480,0,1,1920,1078)
AddBorders(8,0,8,0)

(obviiously you will need to find the right plugins for this)

Depending on the length of the file I either open the above .avs script into TMPGenc 4.0 express and render out as the default DVD using the below settings but I would suggest a bit rate calculater, (sometimes this blows up with a memory error if it's too long or too complex) Or I run the .avs script into Virtual Dub first for the reasons staated and create another .avi to then import into TMP...

If you skip the TMP part I imagine you can still import this into Vegas and create an elementry stream, tried it didn't really like it although it wasn't "horrible"

Doing this I've been able to put an hour and 20 min into a single layer DVD using

2 pass VBR
Max 9100
avg 6200
Min 2450

Which is the "longest" DVD I've tried so far and had pristine results....

Bit Rate Calculator I use http://dvd-hq.info/bitrate_calculator.php

Good luck!

Jordan Brindle · May 26th, 2010, 03:52 AM

Sounds great Thomas, i assume the plug ins i need correspond with the scripts you've used? I'm new to this sort of thing! And i assume i can find all these on the AVISynth website/documentation link that comes with the download?

Also looking into Cineform, looks like a very interesting piece of technology that might be worth investing in.

Any way thanks again Thomas really appreciate the help! I'm looking forward to getting home from my other job so i can begin some trial and error.

Thomas Moore · May 26th, 2010, 04:45 AM

Yes, you can find all those filters on the main avisynth site....

Jordan Brindle · May 26th, 2010, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Moore

Yes, you can find all those filters on the main avisynth site....

Cheers Tom, will let you know how i get on and will keep in touch! Hope im not a bother!

Thomas Moore · May 28th, 2010, 08:43 PM

And for our PAL freinds to avoid confusion :)

Use this script for 1920x1080

AVISource("C:your.avi",pixel_type="RGB32")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\FFT3DFilter.dll")
AssumeTFF()
ConvertToYV12
FFT3DFilter(sigma=2.0, plane=0, bw=48, bh=48, bt=3, ow=16, oh=16, sharpen=0.5, interlaced=true)
Lanczos4Resize(704,576,0,1,1920,1078)
AddBorders(8,0,8,0)
AssumeFPS(25.000, true)
ConvertToRGB32
Levels(0, 1, 255, 16, 235, coring=false)

and if 1280x720

Use this script for 1920x1080

AVISource("C:your.avi",pixel_type="RGB32")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\FFT3DFilter.dll")
AssumeTFF()
ConvertToYV12
FFT3DFilter(sigma=2.0, plane=0, bw=48, bh=48, bt=3, ow=16, oh=16, sharpen=0.5, interlaced=true)
LanczosResize(704,576,0,1,1280,718)
AddBorders(8,0,8,0)
AssumeFPS(25.000, true)
ConvertToRGB32
Levels(0, 1, 255, 16, 235, coring=false)

Mike McKay · June 9th, 2010, 05:36 PM

I can't believe all this time I've never tried burning a 1920x1080 AVC Blu Ray format direct from the Vegas timeline to standard DVD for playback in my BD player!!
Just did it and WOW does my stuff look awesome. Had a live 40 minute concert (Burned to Dual Layer) and a couple of eye candy projects I'd never really seen in all their glory as I've been holding off on a BD burner!
Going from software players on my computer monitor to a decent 46" TV is like night and day. I also noticed just how smooth the playback is compared to VimeoHD etc which is what I've gotten used to. Seems to negatively effect frame rate on playback...or maybe just 720p doesn't play back very smoothly what with flash/bandwidth/frame-rate conversions etc.
I've got a lot of burning to do.

May 4th, 2010, 11:46 AM	#1
Jordan Brindle Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: UK Posts: 249	How to get the best of your HD footage? I'm sure this question has been asked many times on these boards, but i've just spent 30 minutes using the 'Search' feature to try and prevent myself from sounding like a complete noob. Unfortunately i couldn't find what i was looking for, its mostly SD-HD questions, which leads me to assume my question is an easy one. So, here it goes. How do i get the best out of my 1080i 50 HD wedding footage, which will be going on a DVD as HD? I've spent a good hour messing around with different settings on a 10 second clip trying to retain as much actual/real HD quality as seen in my raw footage, but it always seems to end up looking like standard def stuff except for mpeg2 which seems to yield the best result (.m2t), but can this be transferred to a playable DVD? Also Video for Windows (.avi) 1080i 50 Sony YUV has had good results, but the interlacing shows up with every movement of my camera, im assuming there is a way to prevent this without shooting progressive? I'm still quite new to this, and trying to teach myself as i go, so please excuse my ignorance! Many thanks.

May 25th, 2010, 11:32 AM	#8
Terry Esslinger Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sacramento, Elk Grove. Calif Posts: 306	OK, so you are shooting in HD and going to deliver in SD on DVD. So at some point you have to downconvert to SD. You can either do that when you capture via the camera (which makes editing easier on your computer) or you capture and edit as HD (strong computer) and render it out as SD (obviously MPEG2) for buring on DVD? I have found either way to yield good results. Some like one way better than others. Keep your bityrate as high as possible on the DVD for best quality (up to 8,000,000). Use 2 dvds if necessary (I have not had good luck with DL dvd). Hope this is of some help. __________________ Puttin the wet stuff on the red stuff!

May 4th, 2010, 02:57 PM	#2
Thomas Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 198	http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-hap...d-quality.html condensed version of above: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-hap...ml#post1442691 HD to SD DVD - Best Methods \| Creating Motion Graphics Blog \| Blu-Ray DVD Authoring Menu \| Precomposed That will get you started :)

May 13th, 2010, 05:38 PM	#3
Philip Younger Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Warwickshire Posts: 207	I'd just like to butt in here and pose the question is it worth shooting in 1080i, over say 720i, if you are burning to DVD? As the short answer to the OP's answer seems to be 1080i HD is only good if you are going to burn to blu ray. Are you getting any better end result shooting 1080i over 720?

May 14th, 2010, 12:00 PM	#4
Thomas Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 198	720p is still 1280x720 so still needs to be down coverted to go on DVD which is 720x480. 1080i or p is 1920x1080. Virtual Dub will allow you to downscale either rather nicely if you follow the steps. There are resons to shoot in either depending on your needs...

May 25th, 2010, 08:56 AM	#5
Jordan Brindle Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: UK Posts: 249	Wow Thomas. Well, i finally got round to reading through that HD-SD. I cannot believe the kind of hoops we need to jump through just to get our HD/high quality footage onto DVD. I've ran into a few problems with his workflow, IE: I'm using vegas/architect not adobe and Isaacs plugins for AVISynth is no longer available (I cant seem to find them any where). I'm also running out of time with this wedding. I have 90-100 mins of MPEG2 ''HD'' footage (1080i) ready for DVD(s) and it needs to go out soon. Im wondering if its worth investing in a blu-ray and/or dual layer burner, then again most clients wouldn't have a compatible player right? Gah, now i can see why most videographers avoid HD wedding deliveries.

May 25th, 2010, 10:11 AM	#6
Rob Wood Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 146	"which will be going on a DVD as HD" (from original post) ...what does this mean? 1) you are downscaling to SD? 2) using a format like WMV HD DVD? 3) you meant to say Blu-ray, not DVD?

May 25th, 2010, 10:22 AM	#7
Jordan Brindle Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: UK Posts: 249	What i meant was, it's filmed in 1080i, but it's going onto normal 4.7gb DVD(s). I just wanted to retain as much quality as possible as it looks crap once its put onto DVD. I'm also new to this sort of workflow, most of my work in my short career thus far have been web videos so im probably not making complete sense.

May 25th, 2010, 03:51 PM	#9
Jordan Brindle Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: UK Posts: 249	Hi Terry. Yes, basically. I captured and edited in HD. However, getting 45 minutes (about 8.7gb) of MPEG2 onto a DVD using Architect has naturally produced some crappy results. What i was looking for was a way to retain as much clarity (as close to the original mpeg2 clip) as possible after it had been burnt to the playable DVD. I don't know if i've just grown use to looking at it in HD but the DVD just looks crap. Is there no way to get a 45min clip looking better than that? I guess following that guide posted by Thomas is the only way right now? Trouble is its missing essential parts like the AViSynth plugins etc i need. It all just seems ridiculous there is no decent work-flow/delivery for HD footage other than Blu-Ray. Also, interesting thread you linked however the clients would require a blu-ray player and nobody has one of those yet (at least not the majority here in the UK).

May 25th, 2010, 05:29 PM	#10
Thomas Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 198	OK, I've played with this over time and the best method I've personally found from all my reeaserch and reading and persoanl testing is this 1)Render all my HD footage whatever format into Cineform .avi's 2) edit as appropriate 3) render out from Vegas as cineform .avi 4) use the following scirpt to down convert: If it's 1280x720... AVISource("myfile.avi",pixel_type="RGB32") ConvertToYV12 FFT3DFilter(sigma=2.0, plane=0, bw=48, bh=48, bt=3, ow=16, oh=16, sharpen=0.5, interlaced=false) Lanczos4Resize(704,480,0,1,1280,718) AddBorders(8,0,8,0) ConvertToRGB32 Levels(0, 1, 255, 16, 235, coring=false) for 1920 x 1080 sub out: Lanczos4Resize(704,480,0,1,1920,1078) AddBorders(8,0,8,0) (obviiously you will need to find the right plugins for this) Depending on the length of the file I either open the above .avs script into TMPGenc 4.0 express and render out as the default DVD using the below settings but I would suggest a bit rate calculater, (sometimes this blows up with a memory error if it's too long or too complex) Or I run the .avs script into Virtual Dub first for the reasons staated and create another .avi to then import into TMP... If you skip the TMP part I imagine you can still import this into Vegas and create an elementry stream, tried it didn't really like it although it wasn't "horrible" Doing this I've been able to put an hour and 20 min into a single layer DVD using 2 pass VBR Max 9100 avg 6200 Min 2450 Which is the "longest" DVD I've tried so far and had pristine results.... Bit Rate Calculator I use http://dvd-hq.info/bitrate_calculator.php Good luck!

May 26th, 2010, 03:52 AM	#11
Jordan Brindle Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: UK Posts: 249	Sounds great Thomas, i assume the plug ins i need correspond with the scripts you've used? I'm new to this sort of thing! And i assume i can find all these on the AVISynth website/documentation link that comes with the download? Also looking into Cineform, looks like a very interesting piece of technology that might be worth investing in. Any way thanks again Thomas really appreciate the help! I'm looking forward to getting home from my other job so i can begin some trial and error.

May 26th, 2010, 04:45 AM	#12
Thomas Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 198	Yes, you can find all those filters on the main avisynth site....

May 28th, 2010, 08:43 PM	#14
Thomas Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 198	And for our PAL freinds to avoid confusion :) Use this script for 1920x1080 AVISource("C:your.avi",pixel_type="RGB32") LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\FFT3DFilter.dll") AssumeTFF() ConvertToYV12 FFT3DFilter(sigma=2.0, plane=0, bw=48, bh=48, bt=3, ow=16, oh=16, sharpen=0.5, interlaced=true) Lanczos4Resize(704,576,0,1,1920,1078) AddBorders(8,0,8,0) AssumeFPS(25.000, true) ConvertToRGB32 Levels(0, 1, 255, 16, 235, coring=false) and if 1280x720 Use this script for 1920x1080 AVISource("C:your.avi",pixel_type="RGB32") LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\FFT3DFilter.dll") AssumeTFF() ConvertToYV12 FFT3DFilter(sigma=2.0, plane=0, bw=48, bh=48, bt=3, ow=16, oh=16, sharpen=0.5, interlaced=true) LanczosResize(704,576,0,1,1280,718) AddBorders(8,0,8,0) AssumeFPS(25.000, true) ConvertToRGB32 Levels(0, 1, 255, 16, 235, coring=false)

June 9th, 2010, 05:36 PM	#15
Mike McKay Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 125	I can't believe all this time I've never tried burning a 1920x1080 AVC Blu Ray format direct from the Vegas timeline to standard DVD for playback in my BD player!! Just did it and WOW does my stuff look awesome. Had a live 40 minute concert (Burned to Dual Layer) and a couple of eye candy projects I'd never really seen in all their glory as I've been holding off on a BD burner! Going from software players on my computer monitor to a decent 46" TV is like night and day. I also noticed just how smooth the playback is compared to VimeoHD etc which is what I've gotten used to. Seems to negatively effect frame rate on playback...or maybe just 720p doesn't play back very smoothly what with flash/bandwidth/frame-rate conversions etc. I've got a lot of burning to do.