Apply effects to an individual audio event? at DVinfo.net

Adam Woodworth · July 12th, 2005, 08:58 AM

Hi Everyone,

I just noticed that in Vegas, you cannot apply effects to individual audio events (clips) on a track. You can do this for video events, but for audio events you can only apply effects for the entire track.

I'm not an expert, but I can't understand why Vegas has this limitation. It's quite annoying. Now, perhaps I'm just heading down the wrong path with the way I'm trying to edit, and I'm just making my life harder...if it sounds like that, please help me and set me straight. :)

Specifically, what I'm trying to do is change (increase) the volume of a single audio event on a track, but I'd love to be able to apply any audio effect to a single event on the same track as other events that I don't want the effect applied. Separating the audio events into their own tracks is not really practical, especially for a large project -- I'd end up with tons of extra audio tracks that each contain a single event.

I know you can render a single audio event into a separate take with it's own set of effects, but that's not very practical either since I have no way to preview the transition of the adjacent audio clip into the one I'm tweaking.

Here's the possible solutions I've come up with:

1) Use effect automation envelopes for the track, setting envelopes where I need to tweak effect parameters. It's a limited approach.

2) Create separate Vegas projects for each separate scene in the movie, and have each audio event that needs an effect have it's own track. This makes the number of audio tracks more manageable for a single scene, but might make it tricky to splice the individual scene projects back together into one final project.

3) Render the entire audio track to WAV file, and import it to a audio editing program that allows you to tweak individual audio clips on the same track, and chop the big WAV file into clips.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Adam

Edward Troxel · July 12th, 2005, 10:16 AM

I can't give you a reason why but will agree that it is not possible. You CAN apply an effect direct to the clip but it will be applied immediately instead of "on-the-fly" like when added to the track header.

There are options you missed, though. Probably the simplist of which is: Simply use MORE tracks. Move the segments of audio that need a specific effect to a new track. There's lots of flexibility when it comes to audio.

Adam Woodworth · July 12th, 2005, 10:24 AM

Thanks for the response Edward!

I did mention using more tracks in my post, although not in the enumerated list of solutions. The problem with using more tracks is that you will end up with tons of tracks for a large project, making it hard to manage. But I may try it that way.

According to a friend of mine that uses Final Cut Pro, you can apply effects to individual audio events on the fly in FCP. So, if anyone on the Vegas development team is reading this, I'd like to make it a feature request. :)

Edward Troxel · July 12th, 2005, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Woodworth

I did mention using more tracks in my post, although not in the enumerated list of solutions. The problem with using more tracks is that you will end up with tons of tracks for a large project, making it hard to manage. But I may try it that way.

I read "Multiple Project" and didn't catch the "Multiple Tracks" inside those projects. Splicing the scenes back together should be no problem at all with project nesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Woodworth

According to a friend of mine that uses Final Cut Pro, you can apply effects to individual audio events on the fly in FCP. So, if anyone on the Vegas development team is reading this, I'd like to make it a feature request. :)

Definitely submit it to Sony. You can do so here:
http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/sup...suggestion.asp

DJ Kinney · July 12th, 2005, 11:13 AM

HERE IS AN IDEA:

What I think Vegas Audio needs the most, and what I don't believe it has (perhaps only on the master bus audio track? Not even sure then) is a gain envelope with draggable points.

Now, what you can do, is increase the gain through normalization or even with the volume slider on a track. Then, you can bring down the gain of each individual clip, leaving only the clip that you want to be at the higher volume at max gain.

See what I'm saying? Basically use the little individual clip gain function. Of course, this should be achievable through an envelope, but isn't.

Edward Troxel · July 12th, 2005, 12:17 PM

gain envelope with draggable points.

You mean like a VOLUME Envelope? (select the track and press "V")

DJ Kinney · July 12th, 2005, 06:04 PM

I didn't think that worked on the individual clips. I thought it only worked on the master output. Can't check right now, I'm away from the toys.

But wait, Edward, if that is true, and it's as easy as "V," then why isn't that the solution to Adam's original problem?

Peter Jefferson · July 12th, 2005, 06:27 PM

go grab a copy of soundforge, and right click and open copy in soundforge.
this is the ONLY way to add an effect to an individual clip (NOT TRACK)

Glenn Chan · July 12th, 2005, 07:25 PM

I think you can also:

Right click audio clip in timeline
Apply non-real-time event FX

Once you're done, it'll be added as a new take. You can put multiple FX on at once.

Peter Jefferson · July 12th, 2005, 10:59 PM

oops my bad.. im used to using soundforge for doing that

Adam Woodworth · July 13th, 2005, 09:03 AM

Well sure you can "Apply Non-Realtime Effects", generate a new take of the track, but that's a pain because you cannot listen to anything but the clip you're working on when you're using the Apply Non-Realtime Effects feature of Vegas.

What I want to do is listen to a loop selection of the transition of two adjacent audio clips so that I can adjust the levels on the tracks to make the transistion smoother. In Vegas, this can only be done with track envelopes, as in the volume envelope mentioned above. Which will technically work for what I need to do, but it is just downright silly that Vegas doesn't support individual audio event effects, since it supports individual video event effects.

I submitted a feature request to Sony, as was suggested above, although if you all would like to see this enhancement as well, then go here and submit a feature request for "individual audio event effects" or something to that affect. The more requests the better.

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/sup...suggestion.asp

Peter Jefferson · July 13th, 2005, 11:23 AM

ive actually mentioned this, however i went a little further with filters and requested a "keyframe writer"

abit like teh Dolby Digital surround autopanning latch tool, but for visuals..

July 12th, 2005, 08:58 AM	#1
Adam Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 55	Apply effects to an individual audio event? Hi Everyone, I just noticed that in Vegas, you cannot apply effects to individual audio events (clips) on a track. You can do this for video events, but for audio events you can only apply effects for the entire track. I'm not an expert, but I can't understand why Vegas has this limitation. It's quite annoying. Now, perhaps I'm just heading down the wrong path with the way I'm trying to edit, and I'm just making my life harder...if it sounds like that, please help me and set me straight. :) Specifically, what I'm trying to do is change (increase) the volume of a single audio event on a track, but I'd love to be able to apply any audio effect to a single event on the same track as other events that I don't want the effect applied. Separating the audio events into their own tracks is not really practical, especially for a large project -- I'd end up with tons of extra audio tracks that each contain a single event. I know you can render a single audio event into a separate take with it's own set of effects, but that's not very practical either since I have no way to preview the transition of the adjacent audio clip into the one I'm tweaking. Here's the possible solutions I've come up with: 1) Use effect automation envelopes for the track, setting envelopes where I need to tweak effect parameters. It's a limited approach. 2) Create separate Vegas projects for each separate scene in the movie, and have each audio event that needs an effect have it's own track. This makes the number of audio tracks more manageable for a single scene, but might make it tricky to splice the individual scene projects back together into one final project. 3) Render the entire audio track to WAV file, and import it to a audio editing program that allows you to tweak individual audio clips on the same track, and chop the big WAV file into clips. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Adam

July 12th, 2005, 10:16 AM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I can't give you a reason why but will agree that it is not possible. You CAN apply an effect direct to the clip but it will be applied immediately instead of "on-the-fly" like when added to the track header. There are options you missed, though. Probably the simplist of which is: Simply use MORE tracks. Move the segments of audio that need a specific effect to a new track. There's lots of flexibility when it comes to audio. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

July 12th, 2005, 12:17 PM	#6
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	gain envelope with draggable points. You mean like a VOLUME Envelope? (select the track and press "V") __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

July 12th, 2005, 10:24 AM	#3
Adam Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 55	Thanks for the response Edward! I did mention using more tracks in my post, although not in the enumerated list of solutions. The problem with using more tracks is that you will end up with tons of tracks for a large project, making it hard to manage. But I may try it that way. According to a friend of mine that uses Final Cut Pro, you can apply effects to individual audio events on the fly in FCP. So, if anyone on the Vegas development team is reading this, I'd like to make it a feature request. :)

July 12th, 2005, 11:13 AM	#5
DJ Kinney Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 277	HERE IS AN IDEA: What I think Vegas Audio needs the most, and what I don't believe it has (perhaps only on the master bus audio track? Not even sure then) is a gain envelope with draggable points. Now, what you can do, is increase the gain through normalization or even with the volume slider on a track. Then, you can bring down the gain of each individual clip, leaving only the clip that you want to be at the higher volume at max gain. See what I'm saying? Basically use the little individual clip gain function. Of course, this should be achievable through an envelope, but isn't.

July 12th, 2005, 06:04 PM	#7
DJ Kinney Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 277	I didn't think that worked on the individual clips. I thought it only worked on the master output. Can't check right now, I'm away from the toys. But wait, Edward, if that is true, and it's as easy as "V," then why isn't that the solution to Adam's original problem?

July 12th, 2005, 06:27 PM	#8
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	go grab a copy of soundforge, and right click and open copy in soundforge. this is the ONLY way to add an effect to an individual clip (NOT TRACK)

July 12th, 2005, 07:25 PM	#9
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	I think you can also: Right click audio clip in timeline Apply non-real-time event FX Once you're done, it'll be added as a new take. You can put multiple FX on at once.

July 12th, 2005, 10:59 PM	#10
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	oops my bad.. im used to using soundforge for doing that

July 13th, 2005, 09:03 AM	#11
Adam Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 55	Well sure you can "Apply Non-Realtime Effects", generate a new take of the track, but that's a pain because you cannot listen to anything but the clip you're working on when you're using the Apply Non-Realtime Effects feature of Vegas. What I want to do is listen to a loop selection of the transition of two adjacent audio clips so that I can adjust the levels on the tracks to make the transistion smoother. In Vegas, this can only be done with track envelopes, as in the volume envelope mentioned above. Which will technically work for what I need to do, but it is just downright silly that Vegas doesn't support individual audio event effects, since it supports individual video event effects. I submitted a feature request to Sony, as was suggested above, although if you all would like to see this enhancement as well, then go here and submit a feature request for "individual audio event effects" or something to that affect. The more requests the better. http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/sup...suggestion.asp

July 13th, 2005, 11:23 AM	#12
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	ive actually mentioned this, however i went a little further with filters and requested a "keyframe writer" abit like teh Dolby Digital surround autopanning latch tool, but for visuals..