Vegas Video discussions from 2006 (Q1Q2)

Scott Johnston · April 17th, 2006, 01:09 AM

I have some footage that I have on DVD that works fine when watching it on a DVD player eg no freezes, perfect quality etc etc

However, when I transfer the VOB file directly into Vegas 6.0 and then render it as firstly DV-AVI it renders properly the complete file it would seem, however, when I go to watch bthe clip that I have rendered, it freezes at 11 minutes 30 for the rest of the clip (20 minutes). It just stays put on the very last frame at 11 30 and doesnt change at all HOWEVER, the sound does continue as normal for the rest of the clip.

I *thought* hopefully, that maybe it was just for the AVI format, so I tried again, rendering the same video with WMV 3mbps, and again the same thing happened, freezes at the exact same frame for the rest of the clip AND the sound still continues as normal.

I really do not know what is causing this as the clip is perfect when I am watching at on the DVD player.

Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
Scott

Brandon Wood · April 17th, 2006, 10:32 AM

I agree with Edward. I use Womble on an occassional basis for things like this if I'm not incorporating any new footage.

Of course, if you're adding new footage, you could always render your MPEG2 files through Vegas and then cut/assemble your edit through Womble.

Phil Hamilton · April 17th, 2006, 10:35 AM

The file is already and MPG2 file. I am trying not to lose any resolution but just CUT the clip up a little. So, I'm guessing that womble will cut it but not recompress/uncomprress/recompress the clips??

Brandon Wood · April 17th, 2006, 05:59 PM

Yes, you are correct. You can't really make changes to the clips other than cutting/deleting/moving them. There is no recompression.

I think the link is www.womble.com - I believe you can do a limited trial to see if it's what you need.

Jacob Eirckson · April 17th, 2006, 06:19 PM

i dont know where this would go so mods move it as you wish.

on dvd architect i made a custom scene selection screen and i cant get to the main menu from that other page (second scene selection page) plese help

Edward Troxel · April 17th, 2006, 07:28 PM

Add a new button and point it to the main menu. That should do it for you.

Generally speaking, you would normally just add a sub-menu to the main menu and then design the scene selection screen. Or... let DVDA create the scene selection menu based on the chapter points and then you can clean it up to make it look nice.

Steven Meserve · April 17th, 2006, 08:02 PM

I've tried to work with Sony support, but they are terrible, so I thought I post my question here. I have a 3.2Ghz HT Pentium 4 with 2GB memory and 2 SATA drives. It may not be the fastest PC out there, but it's not too shabby. I'm new to video editing on the PC, so I'm using VMSP 6.0a rather than the full Vegas 6.0d.

Anyway, my issue is the amount of time it takes to render to WMV files. It looks like I'm 100% CPU bound while rendering. I'm seeing 20X rendering speeds, basically 20 hours to render a 1 hour tape to WMV. I'm not using any FXs, it's the video straight from the tape without and changes.

My questions:

Is this the best I can expect?

Are there any settings I can adjust to get better performance?

Would I see better performance with the full version of Vegas?

WMV gives a very good quality to size performance ratio, but are there other CODECs that I should be looking at that would render quicker with similar performance?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

Jacob Eirckson · April 17th, 2006, 09:24 PM

ok noob question how do i point it to the main menu?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 17th, 2006, 09:46 PM

What is your final output for? Web?
What bitrate is the WMV?
Encoding is a very difficult thing to do on a CPU, and compressing to WMV is no small task.
You need to know the target bitrate.
You need to know the target audience.
You need to know exactly why you're encoding to WMV.

It also sounds like your system isn't optimal. Render time shouldn't be 20:1, unless it's a slow system, but 10:1 isn't out of the question.

So, we need more information about the why you're rendering to WMV, and the bitrate you're rendering to. Additionally, it would be helpful if you specified the resolution to which you're rendering.

Phil Hamilton · April 17th, 2006, 11:48 PM

In simple terms add a button to the menu. Click on the button to hilight button properties. Look for Navigation. Then on the navigation drop down choose the main menu. That should do it.

Jason Robinson · April 18th, 2006, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Hawley

I am sure this is another easy one, but upon a quick search on "WMA" I did not see the answer...

How do I use a protected WMA file in Vegas. It is for a personal project that is not being broadcast or anything like that...just doing a montage.

Haven't tried it yet, but I am thinking that burning it to CD and then ripping back to Vegas may work. What's the trick?

2) While I'm at it...anyone know how I can convert SD2 files into something usable in Windows. I have tried a couple converters with no success.

Thanks again, Jim

I might have an answer for you...

Unfortunately for anyone wanting to learn and try new things or experiment with other content, it doesn't matter what kind of use you have in mind; commercial, educational, personal, etc. The file was protected by the content developer so that its use other than in its predetermined players is not possible. This also means that legally and use you might make of the product after defeating whatever protection mechanism is in place, would be illegal.

I didn't say the answer would be favorable. As far as defeating protection schemes on WMA's I have not heard of any cracks or decrypting programs yet. I only have some (small) experience with DeCSS for decrypting DVD .vob files.

jason

Jacob Eirckson · April 18th, 2006, 07:50 AM

alright thx i got it

Steven Meserve · April 18th, 2006, 09:24 AM

The camcorder is a Sony HDR-HC1 recording in HDV format. I capture the video in VMSP 6.0a and then split it into scenes (home video type content). The project template is set to "HDV 1080-60i (1440x1080, 29.970 fps)" which sets rendering quality to "Good". In the Render As dialog in the Save as type I choose "Windows Media Video V9 (*.wmv)", and the template is "8 Mbps HD 1080-30p Video". Here's the description:

Audio: 192 Kbps, 48,000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo, WMA9.
Video: 27.97 fps, 1440x1080, PAR=1.3333, WMV V9 CBR Compression, Smoothness 90.
Use this setting for high-quality HD video playback on a 3.0 GHz computer or better.

This is a pretty fast CPU, so unless I step up to a supercomputer I don't think there's much I can do there. As a comparison, using Windows Movie Maker I'm able to "real time" encode analog VHS tapes to WMV files (2.1Mbps, 640x480, 30fps) so a 2 hour tape takes 2 hours to create the WMV. I know this is SD and 1/4 the bit rate, but the capture is flawless and I never miss a frame so I know I have CPU to spare.

The reason I'm using WMV over MPEG-2 is the WMV achieve similar quality and a fraction of the bit rate and therefore file size. Right now the WMV files are on a hard disk, but eventually they will be burned to DVD. I want "near" HDV quality, so reducing the bit rate is not an option.

I believe VMSP is very inefficient in it's conversion from MPEG-2 HDV to WMV. I can't prove it because I don't have anything to compare it to. My only hope is that either there is a setting in VMSP I can change that will dramatically improve performance (5:1 encoding times would be acceptable), or if someone could say the full version of Vegas is the solution (I doubt it since it probably uses the same encoding engine).

Thanks for taking the time to help. Just in the questions you've asked you've put Sony Support to shame! Thanks,

Steve

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 18th, 2006, 09:49 AM

Steve,
It's not an appropriate comparison to look at what you're doing with avi to wmv vs mpeg to wmv, regardless of resolution.
Bear in mind, a highly compressed mpeg file from your HC1e has to be decompressed, displayed, then recompressed to a higher compression ratio. Vegas could be more optimal in how it decodes MPEG, no doubt. That said, it'll be a long, long time before it's going to be 5:1, I think.
One thing you could do that would speed the process is to convert to CineForm on capture, and use the resulting 4:2:2 files in VMS to go to wmv. You'll see a faster encode. Download the CineForm 2 week trial, give it a shot.

Steven Meserve · April 18th, 2006, 10:39 AM

Could you give me some more details? Are you referring to ConnectHD? The info on the site mentions Vegas 5, will this work with VMS Platinum 6.0a? I'm willing to give it a try, but $200 seems like a lot unless I see a huge difference in encoding time.

I also saw a mention of CineForm being included in VMSP, but I can't find a way to select it for Capture. Any thoughts?

Thanks again,

Steve

April 17th, 2006, 01:09 AM	#1216
Scott Johnston Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 36	Rendering Issues I have some footage that I have on DVD that works fine when watching it on a DVD player eg no freezes, perfect quality etc etc However, when I transfer the VOB file directly into Vegas 6.0 and then render it as firstly DV-AVI it renders properly the complete file it would seem, however, when I go to watch bthe clip that I have rendered, it freezes at 11 minutes 30 for the rest of the clip (20 minutes). It just stays put on the very last frame at 11 30 and doesnt change at all HOWEVER, the sound does continue as normal for the rest of the clip. I thought hopefully, that maybe it was just for the AVI format, so I tried again, rendering the same video with WMV 3mbps, and again the same thing happened, freezes at the exact same frame for the rest of the clip AND the sound still continues as normal. I really do not know what is causing this as the clip is perfect when I am watching at on the DVD player. Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated Thanks Scott

April 17th, 2006, 10:35 AM	#1218
Phil Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 150	The file is already and MPG2 file. I am trying not to lose any resolution but just CUT the clip up a little. So, I'm guessing that womble will cut it but not recompress/uncomprress/recompress the clips?? __________________ Phil Hamilton hamiltonp@sbcglobal.net Dallas, Texas " I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ..."

April 17th, 2006, 06:19 PM	#1220
Jacob Eirckson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: washington Posts: 13	DvD architect (?) i dont know where this would go so mods move it as you wish. on dvd architect i made a custom scene selection screen and i cant get to the main menu from that other page (second scene selection page) plese help

April 17th, 2006, 07:28 PM	#1221
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Add a new button and point it to the main menu. That should do it for you. Generally speaking, you would normally just add a sub-menu to the main menu and then design the scene selection screen. Or... let DVDA create the scene selection menu based on the chapter points and then you can clean it up to make it look nice. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

April 17th, 2006, 08:02 PM	#1222
Steven Meserve New Boot Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 13	Vegas Movie Studio Platinum Slow Render Speed I've tried to work with Sony support, but they are terrible, so I thought I post my question here. I have a 3.2Ghz HT Pentium 4 with 2GB memory and 2 SATA drives. It may not be the fastest PC out there, but it's not too shabby. I'm new to video editing on the PC, so I'm using VMSP 6.0a rather than the full Vegas 6.0d. Anyway, my issue is the amount of time it takes to render to WMV files. It looks like I'm 100% CPU bound while rendering. I'm seeing 20X rendering speeds, basically 20 hours to render a 1 hour tape to WMV. I'm not using any FXs, it's the video straight from the tape without and changes. My questions: Is this the best I can expect? Are there any settings I can adjust to get better performance? Would I see better performance with the full version of Vegas? WMV gives a very good quality to size performance ratio, but are there other CODECs that I should be looking at that would render quicker with similar performance? Thanks in advance, Steve

April 17th, 2006, 10:32 AM	#1217
Brandon Wood Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Mauriceville, TX Posts: 146	I agree with Edward. I use Womble on an occassional basis for things like this if I'm not incorporating any new footage. Of course, if you're adding new footage, you could always render your MPEG2 files through Vegas and then cut/assemble your edit through Womble.

April 17th, 2006, 05:59 PM	#1219
Brandon Wood Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Mauriceville, TX Posts: 146	Yes, you are correct. You can't really make changes to the clips other than cutting/deleting/moving them. There is no recompression. I think the link is www.womble.com - I believe you can do a limited trial to see if it's what you need.

April 17th, 2006, 09:24 PM	#1223
Jacob Eirckson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: washington Posts: 13	ok noob question how do i point it to the main menu?

April 17th, 2006, 09:46 PM	#1224
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	What is your final output for? Web? What bitrate is the WMV? Encoding is a very difficult thing to do on a CPU, and compressing to WMV is no small task. You need to know the target bitrate. You need to know the target audience. You need to know exactly why you're encoding to WMV. It also sounds like your system isn't optimal. Render time shouldn't be 20:1, unless it's a slow system, but 10:1 isn't out of the question. So, we need more information about the why you're rendering to WMV, and the bitrate you're rendering to. Additionally, it would be helpful if you specified the resolution to which you're rendering. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

April 17th, 2006, 11:48 PM	#1225
Phil Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 150	In simple terms add a button to the menu. Click on the button to hilight button properties. Look for Navigation. Then on the navigation drop down choose the main menu. That should do it. __________________ Phil Hamilton hamiltonp@sbcglobal.net Dallas, Texas " I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ..."

April 18th, 2006, 07:50 AM	#1227
Jacob Eirckson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: washington Posts: 13	alright thx i got it

April 18th, 2006, 09:24 AM	#1228
Steven Meserve New Boot Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 13	The camcorder is a Sony HDR-HC1 recording in HDV format. I capture the video in VMSP 6.0a and then split it into scenes (home video type content). The project template is set to "HDV 1080-60i (1440x1080, 29.970 fps)" which sets rendering quality to "Good". In the Render As dialog in the Save as type I choose "Windows Media Video V9 (*.wmv)", and the template is "8 Mbps HD 1080-30p Video". Here's the description: Audio: 192 Kbps, 48,000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo, WMA9. Video: 27.97 fps, 1440x1080, PAR=1.3333, WMV V9 CBR Compression, Smoothness 90. Use this setting for high-quality HD video playback on a 3.0 GHz computer or better. This is a pretty fast CPU, so unless I step up to a supercomputer I don't think there's much I can do there. As a comparison, using Windows Movie Maker I'm able to "real time" encode analog VHS tapes to WMV files (2.1Mbps, 640x480, 30fps) so a 2 hour tape takes 2 hours to create the WMV. I know this is SD and 1/4 the bit rate, but the capture is flawless and I never miss a frame so I know I have CPU to spare. The reason I'm using WMV over MPEG-2 is the WMV achieve similar quality and a fraction of the bit rate and therefore file size. Right now the WMV files are on a hard disk, but eventually they will be burned to DVD. I want "near" HDV quality, so reducing the bit rate is not an option. I believe VMSP is very inefficient in it's conversion from MPEG-2 HDV to WMV. I can't prove it because I don't have anything to compare it to. My only hope is that either there is a setting in VMSP I can change that will dramatically improve performance (5:1 encoding times would be acceptable), or if someone could say the full version of Vegas is the solution (I doubt it since it probably uses the same encoding engine). Thanks for taking the time to help. Just in the questions you've asked you've put Sony Support to shame! Thanks, Steve

April 18th, 2006, 09:49 AM	#1229
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Steve, It's not an appropriate comparison to look at what you're doing with avi to wmv vs mpeg to wmv, regardless of resolution. Bear in mind, a highly compressed mpeg file from your HC1e has to be decompressed, displayed, then recompressed to a higher compression ratio. Vegas could be more optimal in how it decodes MPEG, no doubt. That said, it'll be a long, long time before it's going to be 5:1, I think. One thing you could do that would speed the process is to convert to CineForm on capture, and use the resulting 4:2:2 files in VMS to go to wmv. You'll see a faster encode. Download the CineForm 2 week trial, give it a shot. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

April 18th, 2006, 10:39 AM	#1230
Steven Meserve New Boot Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 13	Could you give me some more details? Are you referring to ConnectHD? The info on the site mentions Vegas 5, will this work with VMS Platinum 6.0a? I'm willing to give it a try, but $200 seems like a lot unless I see a huge difference in encoding time. I also saw a mention of CineForm being included in VMSP, but I can't find a way to select it for Capture. Any thoughts? Thanks again, Steve