Vegas Video discussions from 2006 (Q1Q2)

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 22nd, 2006, 12:22 AM

Interleave the audio in CineForm, or you'll be recompressing MPEG audio, which isn't the best thing to be doing. Plus, Vegas is optimized for dealing with PCM audio. The space saving isn't worth the hassle.
Aside from that, (not directed to any one person here, but for benefit of future readers) if you're doing HD of any kind, get past this silliness of worrying about HDD space. Either stay in SD, or realize that you need approximately 40 GB per hour of storage for intermediary codecs, perhaps more if you're not using an efficient codec like CineForm. It's simply silly to believe that shortcuts can be taken without compromising either end product quality or workflow. Hard drives are cheap, and very necessary for HD of any flavor.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 22nd, 2006, 12:35 AM

Long post, and it's late. Maybe I'll answer more deeply later...
1. Don't edit native HDV. Read the HDV book that came with your software.
2. RAM makes no difference, it's all processor and HDD speed.
3. No, you cannot offline/online with HDV in VMS Platinum. There is a tool for the professional version of Vegas which allows you to do this, but not for the Studio Platinum product.

Even if you WERE to edit native HDV on your current computer, you'd be in significant pain. Use the Cineform codec that came with VMS Platinum, and even that will be very slow. Your best bet is to upgrade proc and mobo

Lee Kennedy · January 22nd, 2006, 09:19 AM

Thanks for the response Mr Eagle. I got no responses on another forum, so even a quick one is good!

I did read your book (great book by the way, learnt a lot). Seeing it seemed to be about 1 - 1.5 yrs old, I thought that some of the information regarding what was possible editing wise with HDV may have changed. I guess it's still not overly realistic to edit native HDV. Rendering the m2t audio to WAVE has upped my frame rate from 3-5fps upto a bit 6-7fps! Better than nothing.

Thanks for confirming that RAM makes no diff. Saves trying out that avenue.

So even upgrading upto a dual core ath 64...i'd still need Connect HD or Gearshift to edit comfortably?

At first I thought there was loss of quality thru using these codecs, but I keep hearing people mentioning native HDV suffers generation loss during the editing process, while Connect HD and Gearshift don't. Is this true? Guess I'll have to research these two codecs a bit.

Tiz a shame about no offline/online feature in VMS Plat, but I guess that's to be expected with a application costing 1/4 the price of the full version. You said "there is a tool for the pro version of vegas"...is this a seperate plugin or something you have to buy, or is it a tool within the pro version of Vegas?

Sorry if I'm repeating questions others have asked before. I do try and search for these answers through the forums.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 22nd, 2006, 10:47 AM

You don't need to worry about loss in the conversion, no. GearShift is the tool I mentioned that will allow you to edit offline and then shift to online with the larger media.
Yes, the book is just about exactly 1 year old, we shipped it on Feb 4 of 2005. The second edition is much larger and more in-depth on all sides now that there is more information available. It will ship shortly.

Lee Kennedy · January 22nd, 2006, 11:12 AM

So Gearshift is only useable with the pro version of vegas and not VMS plat?

Just been reading the manual of gearshift and was getting quite excited about it. In which case I guess that only leaves Connect HD? Or is that not compat with VMS plat either?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 22nd, 2006, 11:17 AM

Gearshift does not work with Platinum, only the professional version of Vegas.
CineForm is a standalone tool that is indeed, compatible with Platinum.

Chris Barcellos · January 22nd, 2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Long post, and it's late. Maybe I'll answer more deeply later...

Even if you WERE to edit native HDV on your current computer, you'd be in significant pain. Use the Cineform codec that came with VMS Platinum, and even that will be very slow. Your best bet is to upgrade proc and mobo

DSE: Boy, I'm talking with you in two threads. Its great to have someone with your knowledge to learn this stuff, I only hope your patience holds out.

So I don't seem to have the Cineform Codec in my current version VMS Platinum. I previously had installed the HD Connect trial, and then uninstalled it when the trial expired. Is it possible I removed the codec at that time? I had the impression that HD Connect is what gave you access to the Cineform Codec in Vegas, and that otherwise that intermediate is not available in Vegas.

Chris Barcellos

Shannon Rawls · January 22nd, 2006, 03:04 PM

Read all about it here...

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58881

- ShannonRawls.com

Fred Foronda · January 22nd, 2006, 03:11 PM

from capturing to printing back to tape should the field order be kept upper fields for fx1/z1?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 22nd, 2006, 04:14 PM

Fred, I STRONGLY recommend you use the templates to render to, instead of playing with the settings. You'll more likely than not mess up the render. If you're rendering for HDV, HDV is upper field first, but the template will set this up for you. There is a lot that can go wrong, hence the value of the templates which are tried and true, and assure no problems with printing to tape. Otherwise, you'll end up reencoding your video and it will suffer quality loss, not to mention the time loss.

Louis Meyer · January 22nd, 2006, 05:42 PM

Regarding a movie my brother and I are making using a Sony Z1 and editing in Vegas:

1. We have three minutes of Super-8 film (35-years old) that we want to transfer to video that will be included in an HDV movie. Besides that, we want the highest resolution video copy possible of the Super-8 footage for posterity.

2. Anyone know of any transfer shops in the San Francisco Bay area that transfers Super-8 film to Sony Z1 HDV 60i tape? The film is priceless and we don't want to risk losing it in the mail.

Nick Jushchyshyn · January 22nd, 2006, 06:05 PM

I've never used them, but this place looks pretty good.
They don't seem to list HDV explicitly, but maybe they let you mount your own HDV camera to their optical rig?

Might be worth asking.
Good luck.

http://www.super8mm.org/

Richard Alvarez · January 22nd, 2006, 07:05 PM

Louis,

I live in the SF bay area, you might check with Monaco in the city. They do 35,and 16mm telecine... I'm not sure if they do S8, but you can ask.

Beyond that, there's Super 8 sound in Burbank, and "moviestuff' down in Houston. Good people, good processes.

You have to decied if you want rank cintel, wetgate, or 'projection' transfers.

(I just checked Monaco, they don't appear to transfer s8. So your best bet is Pro 8mm in Burbank. http://www.pro8mm.com/main.php )

Lee Kennedy · January 22nd, 2006, 07:20 PM

Just my luck, Gearshift looked like the goer, seeing it's a 1/4 of the price of Connect. There's no plans to make Gearshift compatabile with VMS Plat? Seems like scripting isn't available in the menus, so I guess that's why.

Jeff Mack · January 23rd, 2006, 10:34 AM

I cleaned up my timeline and was able to export this edl. I sent it to my online guy and he could open it but the system doesn't recognize the timecode. I have attached the 1st page of my edl. He says the time code should be in the format of xx:xx:xx:xx. These #'s on my list are unrecognizable. Could it be these #'s are the location on my TIMELINE vs. the captured timecode?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Jeff

PS I see I can't post an attachment. Here's what my edl looks like:

003 KW V C 32,558.526 32,565.174 145.940 152.588
from clip KW Pedestal - Clip 001

January 22nd, 2006, 12:22 AM	#256
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Interleave the audio in CineForm, or you'll be recompressing MPEG audio, which isn't the best thing to be doing. Plus, Vegas is optimized for dealing with PCM audio. The space saving isn't worth the hassle. Aside from that, (not directed to any one person here, but for benefit of future readers) if you're doing HD of any kind, get past this silliness of worrying about HDD space. Either stay in SD, or realize that you need approximately 40 GB per hour of storage for intermediary codecs, perhaps more if you're not using an efficient codec like CineForm. It's simply silly to believe that shortcuts can be taken without compromising either end product quality or workflow. Hard drives are cheap, and very necessary for HD of any flavor. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 22nd, 2006, 12:35 AM	#257
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Long post, and it's late. Maybe I'll answer more deeply later... 1. Don't edit native HDV. Read the HDV book that came with your software. 2. RAM makes no difference, it's all processor and HDD speed. 3. No, you cannot offline/online with HDV in VMS Platinum. There is a tool for the professional version of Vegas which allows you to do this, but not for the Studio Platinum product. Even if you WERE to edit native HDV on your current computer, you'd be in significant pain. Use the Cineform codec that came with VMS Platinum, and even that will be very slow. Your best bet is to upgrade proc and mobo __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 22nd, 2006, 10:47 AM	#259
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	You don't need to worry about loss in the conversion, no. GearShift is the tool I mentioned that will allow you to edit offline and then shift to online with the larger media. Yes, the book is just about exactly 1 year old, we shipped it on Feb 4 of 2005. The second edition is much larger and more in-depth on all sides now that there is more information available. It will ship shortly. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 22nd, 2006, 11:17 AM	#261
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Gearshift does not work with Platinum, only the professional version of Vegas. CineForm is a standalone tool that is indeed, compatible with Platinum. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 22nd, 2006, 03:04 PM	#263
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	24f, 30f, 60i modes of XL-H1 all work fine in Sony Vegas 6.0c (build 153) Read all about it here... http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58881 - ShannonRawls.com

January 22nd, 2006, 09:19 AM	#258
Lee Kennedy Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 28	Thanks for the response Mr Eagle. I got no responses on another forum, so even a quick one is good! I did read your book (great book by the way, learnt a lot). Seeing it seemed to be about 1 - 1.5 yrs old, I thought that some of the information regarding what was possible editing wise with HDV may have changed. I guess it's still not overly realistic to edit native HDV. Rendering the m2t audio to WAVE has upped my frame rate from 3-5fps upto a bit 6-7fps! Better than nothing. Thanks for confirming that RAM makes no diff. Saves trying out that avenue. So even upgrading upto a dual core ath 64...i'd still need Connect HD or Gearshift to edit comfortably? At first I thought there was loss of quality thru using these codecs, but I keep hearing people mentioning native HDV suffers generation loss during the editing process, while Connect HD and Gearshift don't. Is this true? Guess I'll have to research these two codecs a bit. Tiz a shame about no offline/online feature in VMS Plat, but I guess that's to be expected with a application costing 1/4 the price of the full version. You said "there is a tool for the pro version of vegas"...is this a seperate plugin or something you have to buy, or is it a tool within the pro version of Vegas? Sorry if I'm repeating questions others have asked before. I do try and search for these answers through the forums.

January 22nd, 2006, 11:12 AM	#260
Lee Kennedy Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 28	So Gearshift is only useable with the pro version of vegas and not VMS plat? Just been reading the manual of gearshift and was getting quite excited about it. In which case I guess that only leaves Connect HD? Or is that not compat with VMS plat either?

January 22nd, 2006, 03:11 PM	#264
Fred Foronda Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 337	field order settings from capturing to printing back to tape should the field order be kept upper fields for fx1/z1?

January 22nd, 2006, 04:14 PM	#265
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Fred, I STRONGLY recommend you use the templates to render to, instead of playing with the settings. You'll more likely than not mess up the render. If you're rendering for HDV, HDV is upper field first, but the template will set this up for you. There is a lot that can go wrong, hence the value of the templates which are tried and true, and assure no problems with printing to tape. Otherwise, you'll end up reencoding your video and it will suffer quality loss, not to mention the time loss. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 22nd, 2006, 05:42 PM	#266
Louis Meyer Tourist Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3	Using Super-8 film in Vegas/Z1 movie project Regarding a movie my brother and I are making using a Sony Z1 and editing in Vegas: 1. We have three minutes of Super-8 film (35-years old) that we want to transfer to video that will be included in an HDV movie. Besides that, we want the highest resolution video copy possible of the Super-8 footage for posterity. 2. Anyone know of any transfer shops in the San Francisco Bay area that transfers Super-8 film to Sony Z1 HDV 60i tape? The film is priceless and we don't want to risk losing it in the mail.

January 22nd, 2006, 06:05 PM	#267
Nick Jushchyshyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Posts: 548	I've never used them, but this place looks pretty good. They don't seem to list HDV explicitly, but maybe they let you mount your own HDV camera to their optical rig? Might be worth asking. Good luck. http://www.super8mm.org/ __________________ Nick Jushchyshyn Matchmoving, Compositing, TD imdb

January 22nd, 2006, 07:05 PM	#268
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Louis, I live in the SF bay area, you might check with Monaco in the city. They do 35,and 16mm telecine... I'm not sure if they do S8, but you can ask. Beyond that, there's Super 8 sound in Burbank, and "moviestuff' down in Houston. Good people, good processes. You have to decied if you want rank cintel, wetgate, or 'projection' transfers. (I just checked Monaco, they don't appear to transfer s8. So your best bet is Pro 8mm in Burbank. http://www.pro8mm.com/main.php )

January 22nd, 2006, 07:20 PM	#269
Lee Kennedy Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 28	Just my luck, Gearshift looked like the goer, seeing it's a 1/4 of the price of Connect. There's no plans to make Gearshift compatabile with VMS Plat? Seems like scripting isn't available in the menus, so I guess that's why.

January 23rd, 2006, 10:34 AM	#270
Jeff Mack Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 195	EDL almost there! I cleaned up my timeline and was able to export this edl. I sent it to my online guy and he could open it but the system doesn't recognize the timecode. I have attached the 1st page of my edl. He says the time code should be in the format of xx:xx:xx:xx. These #'s on my list are unrecognizable. Could it be these #'s are the location on my TIMELINE vs. the captured timecode? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!! Jeff PS I see I can't post an attachment. Here's what my edl looks like: 003 KW V C 32,558.526 32,565.174 145.940 152.588 from clip KW Pedestal - Clip 001