Which New Editor: Vegas or Premier?

[Stan Chase]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

However, Vegas cannot do captioning. Therefore it is useless for my work now.

I'm curious, what are you using for captions? I really need this capability as well. I do like Vegas' ease of use but transcoding and rendering spoils it for me.

Why can't the best PC editors, CPUs, and GPUs available today pull-off what the Newtek Toaster did for the Amiga 20yrs ago? It's frustrating that there's not a PC solution for video as elegant as what's been done on the Mac.

[Edward Troxel]

Perrone, I have Edius 5.12. I haven't used it on a full serious project and have it mainly to test other things. So I'm limited to what I have tried to do in Edius (and Premiere and FCP and AVID and Corel and Pinnacle). For testing purposes, I've tried several things:

1. Adding clips to the timeline. This process is accomplished in varying degrees of difficulty/ease across the many apps. It's amazing how much that simple task changes among all the various apps.

2. Crossfading/adding transitions across clips. Once again, it's a matter of learning how each application works. Some do it on one track. Some do it on two. Some require heads/tails. Some don't. Etc...

3. Adding an effect to a clip. This also is amazingly obtuse on some of the NLE's. But, overall, it's just a matter of finding where they're listed in the various apps.

4. Editing effects that were added. Adding the effect is sometimes easier than figuring out where to go to CHANGE the effect.

5. etc... I've done more in each but those are the basics I start with in each.

I understand that I know Vegas best so it's the easiest for me. And I know all products have some advantages in some situations. Yes, Vegas has some negatives to it as well. All of the NLE's have both positives and negatives related to them. One of the GREAT things about Premiere is the way you can seamlessly integrate between Premiere, AE, Photoshop, etc... {there - at least ONE good thing ;-) }.

Choice of NLE is a very personal decision, though. You are correct that sometimes the situation dictates which NLE you use. So, you have to look at both which one fits you best and which one is most likely to get you a job. And you're really better off learning MULTIPLE NLE's so that you can easily slide into any available job. However, for personal/business not requiring a specific NLE use, I'd use the one that's EASIEST to me.

Before using Vegas, I used EditDV/Cinestream. I really liked how it worked and was very familiar with it. I had some problems when I came to Vegas as well. But it was more like "how do I split a clip" where I was looking for a 'razor' tool and Vegas doesn't use one.

Of course, what everyone would like to do is take the best features of each NLE available and create their own version. But, alas, that is not possible.

[Michael Wisniewski]

Originally Posted by Stan Chase

It's frustrating that there's not a PC solution for video as elegant as what's been done on the Mac.

Stan, don't fool yourself, when it comes to NLE software the Mac is just as frustrating as the PC. In fact, I would characterize the Mac as having it's own unique way of raising your blood pressure. Whichever system you run, they are both adept at giving you a splitting headache. I can't count the number of times I've wanted to chuck both my Macs and PCs out the window.

The problem in the current selection of software is that the best features in the NLE world are splintered and spread across 5-6 different software programs. Are you looking for the truly open, flexible, and time-saving timeline of Vegas? Or do you need the excellent color correction of FCS? Maybe it's the amazing integration of Premiere & After Effects? Or maybe you need the unmatched media management of Avid? Whatever system you choose, you still need to pinpoint what you are planning to do, pick the right software, and then select the best platform to run it on, knowing full well you are making compromises as you make your decision.

[Stan Chase]

Originally Posted by Michael Wisniewski

Stan, don't fool yourself, when it comes to NLE software the Mac is just as frustrating as the PC. In fact, I would characterize the Mac as having it's own unique way of raising your blood pressure. Whichever system you run, they are both adept at giving you a splitting headache. I can't count the number of times I've wanted to chuck both my Macs and PCs out the window.

Michael, thanks for your comments. I've not used Macs for NLE, but some folks I know who are pro editors swear by them. Is there anything for the PC that's equivalent to Final Cut Pro? That's what gets recommended anytime I ask these pros what to use for a desktop NLE.

[Michael Wisniewski]

Adobe Premiere is sometimes referred to the "equivalent of FCP on the PC" because of the similar interface and the "suite" of programs that are bundled with it. The interface of FCP and Premiere were originally designed by the same person, Randy Ubillos, so in a sense the two programs are "twins" - they take the same approach, but have a different "upbringing". Sometimes Sony Vegas is compared to FCP because of it's perceived "ease of use".

[Ron Evans]

I have Premiere, Vegas Pro9 and Edius 5.12. I don't use Premiere anymore, use Edius for video and Vegas for audio ( and at the moment AVCHD single track, multitrack is converted and edited in Edius). They all take some getting used to and are usually good at some things and not so good at others. Nothing beats Vegas for audio and for me nothing beats Edius for video editing speed and file compatibility. They both have their little quirks that one needs to get used to. I have used both since they started ( Vegas as Vegas Audio) so they are not strange to me. I have my Shuttle Pro2 set up so that the buttons do the same things for both programs so switching is easy.

Ron Evans

[Perrone Ford]

This has been a fun and fascinating discussion. There is a lot of "grass is greener" conjecture, but I think it's clear from those of us who've used at least 2-3 different apps, they all have their downfalls. Really, you need to use more than one, or pick the one that best meets your needs.

In my own case, once our in-house videos had to comply with Federal Rule 508 (Acessibility rules) Vegas was done. It doesn't offer the capability, though DVDA does. So if I am going to DVD I can accept caption files from the captioning company. Right now, in order to produce web video, I have to create a DVD, then convert the file it creates back to a WMV for corporate use. I've decided to move camp to Avid because of a few things it brings to the table for me, but in the meantime, I've got to push out a job this week using this DVDA > DVD file > WMV method where I lose untold quality. Especially since I shoot in HD.

Edward made a lovely post here and people new to the game would do well to read that. I really didn't mean to single him out in this discussion, as there are many who are highly fond of Vegas. I'm pretty non-committal about my NLEs and I know that's pretty rare.

Avid's AMA makes my XDCamEX workflow VERY quick and painless. If I had to transcode everything like the AVCHD users would have to, I'd be looking in a different direction. If I had to do significant sound work, then maybe I'd fall back to Vegas 8.0c on one of the computers and leave the other in V9 so I could post RED files.

One day, one of these companies is going to really get it right and solve this stuff. I look forward to that day.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Stan Chase

I'm curious, what are you using for captions? I really need this capability as well. I do like Vegas' ease of use but transcoding and rendering spoils it for me.

I have chosen to go to Avid for this. It's seamless for doing real closed captioning or open captions. But beware, it NEEDS things in it's Avid style caption system which is COMPLETELY screwed up and different from nearly anything else. DVDA understands the caption system from Adobe Encore, and it was so simple to edit.

If you need to massage the output from an Avid caption file, Belle Nuit is the only application I've found that fits the bill. And of course, it's about $150 if memory serves.