Have you try this? at DVinfo.net

Bruce Phung · January 1st, 2010, 04:01 PM

Regarding HD footage downconvert to SD for DVD. I know they are many threads about how to do it with various freeware but required many complicated steps. Is there a simple way to do this? I import a small clip of my hd footage into Virtualdub and resize the HD footage to 720x540 for some reason it won't allowed me to do 720x480 I render it. I open Vegas and import that 720x540 into vegas timeline and from there I Render out Mpeg2. I watch the video on my computer monitor, it look like a 720x 540 widescreen to me. But I did not try to burn it into a DVD. Therefore I can not tell if the DVD quality is any better or not as compare to Vegas downconvert to Mpeg2. What are your thought on this?

Perrone Ford · January 1st, 2010, 04:21 PM

Depending on your settings in VirtualDub, the file will look MUCH better. And it's supposed to look like 720x540 widescreen. What did you expect it to look like?

Bruce Phung · January 1st, 2010, 04:41 PM

Perrone
Thanks for your reply. I guess what I want to know is that Virtualdub did the downconversion. I want to know Virtualdub do a better job than vegas can? based on what I describe the process above?

Perrone Ford · January 1st, 2010, 04:45 PM

Virtualdub *CAN* do a much better job. But you don't tell us any particulars of how you did the downconversion.

What method of rescaling did you choose? Lanczos? Something else?

What compression method did you use when you saved the file?

When you load the file into Vegas, what size does it say the file is?

Bruce Phung · January 1st, 2010, 04:51 PM

ah. I did a very simple way. I import an avi file into Virtualdub.>Video tap>Filter>Resize>
720 x 540. Filter mode I leave it Precise bicubic (A=0.75) everything else I left it alone. Can you guide me to a better setting?

PS. I save the file to AVI with lagrith codec

Perrone Ford · January 1st, 2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Phung

ah. I did a very simple way. I import an avi file into Virtualdub.>Video tap>Filter>Resize>
720 x 540. Filter mode I leave it Precise bicubic (A=0.75) everything else I left it alone. Can you guide me to a better setting?

PS. I save the file to AVI with lagrith codec

Generally, Lanczos resizing gives the best results. However, if you are encoding something with VERY fine lines, then Bicubic can give better results. Both are much better than you get with Vegas or any other NLE. Saving with Lagarith ensures you the best quality with reasonable file sizes. Reasonable compared to uncompressed.

Bruce Phung · January 1st, 2010, 05:46 PM

Thanks for the help. I am rendering a 28minutes 1440 x 1080 footage right now. Will use virtualdub to downscaling and burn into DVD. I will report back later.

Bruce Phung · January 2nd, 2010, 10:51 AM

Update,
My previous DVD is good but nothing resample to a good DVD hollywood movie sharp picture. This was done everything within vegas, edit HD footage and render to Mpeg2 and burn in DVDA.

I test out a 28minutes render uncompress AVI with (Lagarith codec) results 47GB in size.
I import the 47GB file into Virtualdub. The setting I used as follow.

1) New size: Checked Absolute (pixels) 720 x 480
2) Aspect ratio: Checked Disable
3)Compute heigh from ratio> Change 4:3 to 16:9

Filter mode : Lanczo3 > Unchecked Interlaced

Checked Letterbox/crop to size: 720 x 480
Aspect ratio 4:3 change to 16:9

Virtualdub resized the file results with 11.8GB. I import that into Vegas and render it Mpeg2 and DVDA finish the DVD. The video look just slightly better than before. But NO WOW factor here. The problem I got is that I rendered it in widescreen but why the video show left and right black bar and the video look shrink? what I mean is the video make the person look skinny rather than a widescreen video should be.

Can someone post your good stunning DVD quality using Virtualdub setting here?

Randall Leong · January 2nd, 2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Phung

Update,
My previous DVD is good but nothing resample to a good DVD hollywood movie sharp picture. This was done everything within vegas, edit HD footage and render to Mpeg2 and burn in DVDA.

I test out a 28minutes render uncompress AVI with (Lagarith codec) results 47GB in size.
I import the 47GB file into Virtualdub. The setting I used as follow.

1) New size: Checked Absolute (pixels) 720 x 480
2) Aspect ratio: Checked Disable
3)Compute heigh from ratio> Change 4:3 to 16:9

Filter mode : Lanczo3 > Unchecked Interlaced

Checked Letterbox/crop to size: 720 x 480
Aspect ratio 4:3 change to 16:9

Virtualdub resized the file results with 11.8GB. I import that into Vegas and render it Mpeg2 and DVDA finish the DVD. The video look just slightly better than before. But NO WOW factor here. The problem I got is that I rendered it in widescreen but why the video show left and right black bar and the video look shrink? what I mean is the video make the person look skinny rather than a widescreen video should be.

Can someone post your good stunning DVD quality using Virtualdub setting here?

The biggest problem here is that you did not deinterlace the HD footage (which is likely in its native interlaced form) before you resized the image. Your 1440x1080 footage could have been 1440x1080i (interlaced). You must deinterlace any interlaced footage to be resized (preferably using the adaptive "smart-deinterlace" method); otherwise, you will get very noticeable artifacts in the downconverted (or upconverted) video. The Vegas-included deinterlacers do a very poor job on interlaced HD video that is to be downsized; they simply either blend the two fields in the frame or discard half the fields in the interlaced image.

Second, you have to know that Hollywood DVDs start out with 24p material, such as film, to begin with. But again, your HD footage is likely 60i.

Thus, if you want the look (but not necessarily the image quality) of a Hollywood DVD, you must use several filters in addition to Resize in VirtualDub (in the order listed below):

Deinterlace > Select "Yadif" and "Double frame rate, top field first" (this will give you a 1440x1080 60p result)
Interpolate > "Multiply" by 2, "Linear Blending" (1440x1080 120p)
Resize > Absolute pixels to 720x480 > Lanczos3 > Uncheck "interlaced" (720x480 120p)

and also:

Frame Rate (located below "Filters" in the "Video" dropdown menu) > "Decimate" by 5 (720x480 24p)

Then, after you render this out to your lossless AVI, import this back into Vegas and make sure that you not only change the project properties to 720x480, 23.976 fps, 1.2121 (Widescreen) and field order to "None (Progressive Scan)", and set deinterlacing method in Vegas to "None", but you must also change the properties of the video clip itself from the default 0.9091 pixel aspect ratio to "1.2121 (widescreen)". This will force the aspect ratio of the video to 16:9 (for some reason, VirtualDub will use only the 1.0000 (square pixel) and 0.9091 (4:3 image aspect ratio) pixel aspect ratios when it rerenders back into AVI). Then, when you render this result in Vegas, be sure to choose the "DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen 24p" template (which will insert a 2-3 pulldown flag into the rendered video to be exported to DVD).

Bruce Phung · January 2nd, 2010, 02:12 PM

Thanks Randall. I ran out of DVD, I will get some later and will give this a try.

Bruce Phung · January 2nd, 2010, 04:14 PM

Randall,

Question, I am doing deinterlace and resize at the same time. Or I must deinterlaced the video and import it back into Virtualdub to resize.

Also, properties>video clip (field order) set to lower field first??????

Perrone Ford · January 2nd, 2010, 04:26 PM

Apply deinterlace and resize together. But with the deinterlace coming first.

Field order is none. Progressive footage has no fields.

Bruce Phung · January 2nd, 2010, 04:34 PM

I should have an update in an hour. I hope the DVD video look sharp.

Perrone Ford · January 2nd, 2010, 04:36 PM

Based on what I am reading, you have a couple problems. It would be smart for you to buy one DVD+RW so you could test this without burning up DVDs.

Anyway, take snapshots of your process so we can see where you are making the mistakes. Or better yet, film it and put it into a web video.

Randall Leong · January 2nd, 2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Phung

Randall,

Question, I am doing deinterlace and resize at the same time. Or I must deinterlaced the video and import it back into Virtualdub to resize.

Also, properties>video clip (field order) set to lower field first??????

Actually, all native interlaced HDV footage is Upper Field First (UFF). But the normal NTSC DVD templates in Vegas are all Lower Field First (LFF). This is yet another area where the HD to SD downconversion in Vegas alone goes wacky.

And in the deinterlacing settings in VirtualDub, it should be set to the same field order as the original field order in the original clip. This means that with most HD content, this should be set to Top Field First (TFF). Otherwise, if Bottom Field First (BFF) is selected, the wrong field order will be applied during the deinterlacing process (or the second field in each frame will be played back before the first). This results in viewing fatigue because the image will then shimmer back and forth rapidly, especially during panning.

And yes, the field order should be set to "None (Progressive Scan)" in the project properties when you import the newly deinterlaced footage into Vegas. There is a button near the upper right in the project properties window to set the project resolution, frame rate and field order to the same as the video clip that you choose.

January 1st, 2010, 04:01 PM	#1
Bruce Phung Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester,NY USA Posts: 285	Have you try this? Regarding HD footage downconvert to SD for DVD. I know they are many threads about how to do it with various freeware but required many complicated steps. Is there a simple way to do this? I import a small clip of my hd footage into Virtualdub and resize the HD footage to 720x540 for some reason it won't allowed me to do 720x480 I render it. I open Vegas and import that 720x540 into vegas timeline and from there I Render out Mpeg2. I watch the video on my computer monitor, it look like a 720x 540 widescreen to me. But I did not try to burn it into a DVD. Therefore I can not tell if the DVD quality is any better or not as compare to Vegas downconvert to Mpeg2. What are your thought on this?

January 1st, 2010, 04:21 PM	#2
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Depending on your settings in VirtualDub, the file will look MUCH better. And it's supposed to look like 720x540 widescreen. What did you expect it to look like? __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

January 1st, 2010, 04:45 PM	#4
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Virtualdub CAN do a much better job. But you don't tell us any particulars of how you did the downconversion. What method of rescaling did you choose? Lanczos? Something else? What compression method did you use when you saved the file? When you load the file into Vegas, what size does it say the file is? __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

January 2nd, 2010, 04:26 PM	#12
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Apply deinterlace and resize together. But with the deinterlace coming first. Field order is none. Progressive footage has no fields. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

January 2nd, 2010, 04:36 PM	#14
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Based on what I am reading, you have a couple problems. It would be smart for you to buy one DVD+RW so you could test this without burning up DVDs. Anyway, take snapshots of your process so we can see where you are making the mistakes. Or better yet, film it and put it into a web video. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

January 1st, 2010, 04:41 PM	#3
Bruce Phung Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester,NY USA Posts: 285	Perrone Thanks for your reply. I guess what I want to know is that Virtualdub did the downconversion. I want to know Virtualdub do a better job than vegas can? based on what I describe the process above?

January 1st, 2010, 04:51 PM	#5
Bruce Phung Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester,NY USA Posts: 285	ah. I did a very simple way. I import an avi file into Virtualdub.>Video tap>Filter>Resize> 720 x 540. Filter mode I leave it Precise bicubic (A=0.75) everything else I left it alone. Can you guide me to a better setting? PS. I save the file to AVI with lagrith codec

January 1st, 2010, 05:46 PM	#7
Bruce Phung Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester,NY USA Posts: 285	Thanks for the help. I am rendering a 28minutes 1440 x 1080 footage right now. Will use virtualdub to downscaling and burn into DVD. I will report back later.

January 2nd, 2010, 10:51 AM	#8
Bruce Phung Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester,NY USA Posts: 285	Update, My previous DVD is good but nothing resample to a good DVD hollywood movie sharp picture. This was done everything within vegas, edit HD footage and render to Mpeg2 and burn in DVDA. I test out a 28minutes render uncompress AVI with (Lagarith codec) results 47GB in size. I import the 47GB file into Virtualdub. The setting I used as follow. 1) New size: Checked Absolute (pixels) 720 x 480 2) Aspect ratio: Checked Disable 3)Compute heigh from ratio> Change 4:3 to 16:9 Filter mode : Lanczo3 > Unchecked Interlaced Checked Letterbox/crop to size: 720 x 480 Aspect ratio 4:3 change to 16:9 Virtualdub resized the file results with 11.8GB. I import that into Vegas and render it Mpeg2 and DVDA finish the DVD. The video look just slightly better than before. But NO WOW factor here. The problem I got is that I rendered it in widescreen but why the video show left and right black bar and the video look shrink? what I mean is the video make the person look skinny rather than a widescreen video should be. Can someone post your good stunning DVD quality using Virtualdub setting here?

January 2nd, 2010, 02:12 PM	#10
Bruce Phung Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester,NY USA Posts: 285	Thanks Randall. I ran out of DVD, I will get some later and will give this a try.

January 2nd, 2010, 04:14 PM	#11
Bruce Phung Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester,NY USA Posts: 285	Randall, Question, I am doing deinterlace and resize at the same time. Or I must deinterlaced the video and import it back into Virtualdub to resize. Also, properties>video clip (field order) set to lower field first??????

January 2nd, 2010, 04:34 PM	#13
Bruce Phung Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester,NY USA Posts: 285	I should have an update in an hour. I hope the DVD video look sharp.