Vegas 9 trial - restrictions

[Ron Cooper]

What are the restrictions in the trial version of Vegas 9 ?

RonC.

[Jonathan Palfrey]

None, just the 30 day trail limit.

[Seth Bloombaum]

Also, I think you don't get the MPEG2 encoder (which actually comes with companion program DVD Architect but installs in both).

[Ron Cooper]

Thanks very much Seth.

I get very disgusted with some trial programs where you can spend a lot of time downloading & installing only to find out later that the limitations make the trial virtually useless for trying them out completely.
My real concern is how well it handles AVCHD & processes it back to SD as V8 is already supposed to do that, but not so.

RonC.

[Perrone Ford]

Not sure what "handles AVCHD" means, but I've been able to drop AVCHD files from the HF-S10, 5D, and GH1 into the timeline just fine.

In terms of conversion to SD, Vegas does just as good a job as most NLEs.. which is generally quite poor. I wouldn't use any NLE for this if the quality mattered to me.

[Ron Cooper]

Thanks Seth.
My AVCHD requirements are basically to edit on the timeline with other formats, - usually HDV, & DV and then being able to render out to DV or M/Peg 2. (Std. Def.) However, I realise that if the trial version does not include the M/Peg decoder then I could not do an edit in 9 & render out M/Peg2 in Veg.8, because apparently it is not backwards compatable. - Is this correct ?

It seems rather odd that the older format HDV will Down Convert "In-Camera" via fire wire on the fly, with brilliant results, yet the newer AVCHD does not. It has to be re-processed by the editing software.

RonC.

[Ron Cooper]

Sorry Seth & Perrone, - I meant Perrone !

RonC.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Ron Cooper

Thanks Seth.
My AVCHD requirements are basically to edit on the timeline with other formats, - usually HDV, & DV and then being able to render out to DV or M/Peg 2. (Std. Def.) However, I realise that if the trial version does not include the M/Peg decoder then I could not do an edit in 9 & render out M/Peg2 in Veg.8, because apparently it is not backwards compatable. - Is this correct ?

It seems rather odd that the older format HDV will Down Convert "In-Camera" via fire wire on the fly, with brilliant results, yet the newer AVCHD does not. It has to be re-processed by the editing software.

RonC.

One man's brilliant is another man's unacceptable quality. Cameras that do AVCHD don't have a good path to download to SD. Can't do it over HDMI, and since HD doesn't work over firewire, those connections aren't on most cameras. So you're stuck with doing over component or SDI, neither of which you are going to find on consumer oriented cameras.

I still question why ANYONE would edit long-GOP on the timeline, particularly something as poor as AVCHD or HDV and expect good results. For cuts-only work, yes. Anything else, no. And performance is always going to suffer.

[Ron Cooper]

Thanks again Perrone, but I beg to differ !
Both my cameras do HD via firewire. Sony A1P (HDV) & Canon HFS-10 (AVCHD).

As most of my projects at this stage end up as DV, I down convert from the Sony directly before editing, (via firewire), but have to download from the Canon in AVCHD (also firewire), as it does not do an in-camera down-conversion. (Quality straight from the camera to TV is quite stunning though). I am referring to projects where I have used both cameras on the one job. Hence my requirement for editing from both formats together. Further, I also like to render back to the Sony camera for an edited tape copy.

I also do want to keep the quality as high as possible. The Sony HDV is excellent after a down-convert & looks better than if I had shot it originally in DV. I don't particularly like the idea of buying another program such as cineform yet, (I know that this is probably the way to go), as it won't work apparently if I up-grade later to Vegas 9 (or Vegas 10 ??).

RonC.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Ron Cooper

Thanks again Perrone, but I beg to differ !
Both my cameras do HD via firewire. Sony A1P (HDV) & Canon HFS-10 (AVCHD).

Yes, I forget the bitrate is so low on HDV that it works over firewire. However, are you telling me that you can connect a SD device to the firewire cable on these cams and get an SD signal? You are talking about something COMPLETELY different. When you use a firewire to connect your camera to your computer that is a DATA connection, not a video connection. I am talking about a video connection, which is why I mentioned HDMI and SDI, and component.

Originally Posted by Ron Cooper

(Quality straight from the camera to TV is quite stunning though).

Of course. It's uncompressed HD at 1.5Gbps instead of the recorded 24Mbps.

Originally Posted by Ron Cooper

I am referring to projects where I have used both cameras on the one job. Hence my requirement for editing from both formats together. Further, I also like to render back to the Sony camera for an edited tape copy.

Ok, so you dump an AVCHD and HDV project on the timeline together to cut them.

Originally Posted by Ron Cooper

I also do want to keep the quality as high as possible. The Sony HDV is excellent after a down-convert & looks better than if I had shot it originally in DV. I don't particularly like the idea of buying another program such as cineform yet, (I know that this is probably the way to go), as it won't work apparently if I up-grade later to Vegas 9 (or Vegas 10 ??).

Again, what you call excellent is the subject of numerous threads here about poor downconversion. It's all a matter of perspective. But yes, it will look better than DV, and if that is your measure, you will always be pleased.

Who said Cineform won't work if you go to Vegas 9? It's no longer BUNDLED, but should work just fine. But if you don't want to spend the $99 I certainly understand. I don't care to buy it either, that's why I used Lagarith instead. It's free, and lossless. But slow.

[Ron Cooper]

Thanks again Perrone. I had not heard of lagarith so I downloaded & installed it. However, I cannot find it in my programs so how do you exactly use it ?

Thanks,
RonC.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Ron Cooper

Thanks again Perrone. I had not heard of lagarith so I downloaded & installed it. However, I cannot find it in my programs so how do you exactly use it ?

Thanks,
RonC.

Do Render As > AVI > custom > video > select codec.

[Ron Cooper]

Thanks again Perrone.

So does this allow me to actually edit in its intermediate codec by importing the original AVCHD file on the timeline & then doing a "Render As" to another file, & then replacing the original timeline file with the rendered one.

I was thinking to process the original as an intermediate - (converted to DV), to make the editing easier on the PC if possible, or is this not possible.

RonC.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Ron Cooper

Thanks again Perrone.

So does this allow me to actually edit in its intermediate codec by importing the original AVCHD file on the timeline & then doing a "Render As" to another file, & then replacing the original timeline file with the rendered one.

I was thinking to process the original as an intermediate - (converted to DV), to make the editing easier on the PC if possible, or is this not possible.

RonC.

There are numerous ways to do this. One is to create smaller files like SD files to use for editing. And then replace those with the originals when you're ready to do the final output. This is a well used workflow.

Another is to transcode the original files into an intermediate of the same HD size but that is much easier for the computer to work with. This is where something like Cineform comes in. Honestly, it's the best solution for Vegas if this is the workflow you want to use.