Where's the V6 furor? at DVinfo.net

Michael Pace · April 22nd, 2005, 02:58 AM

Forget that 'New Boot' malarkey on my rating-- i've been here for going on 3 years-- been w/ Vegas since V3. I don't post much because i know how to use the 'Search' function

Issue:
The factory (Sony) forums are positively rippling w/ posts by irate regulars (ie: power/heavy users) about the new V6 release-- they are enraged over some apparently basic flaws in the program; many are having fundamental problems just running the software.

I'm a little more than curious why we're not seeing more problems posted here on DVinfo...

Like many others i've been checking in here a couple times a day trying to get a pulse on the new V6 release, gauging my upgrade path etc

Certain of our members with Sony NDA's waxed ecstatic about the V6 release *weeks* before the debut-- encouraging folks to think V6 was the Next Coming (and thereby encouraging...ahem...several sales). Now *they* are posting problems...

(there's another thread there in the making about inappropriate pre-release hoopla from NDA-types and Beta testers....but i won't start it)(maybe Chris will start it silently...)

Spot posted a well-reasoned and informative reply to the folks on the Sony forum, and from what i've seen here Edward (my own go-to Guru) is *not* having issues-- why are'nt we seeing similar problems on this forum?

I've witnessed the software/camera release circus for a few years now and know it's not all perfect out of the gate, but i'm wondering why we're not seeing the criticism/questioning that's going on in other (inferior, IMO) forums

Best to all,

Michael Pace
Davis, CA

Simon Wyndham · April 22nd, 2005, 03:40 AM

I have been wondering myself. But I have put it down to the fact that on the Sony forums the staff who actually make the program read all the comments and reply there. So complaining about any problems in Vegas 6 over here wouldn't garner the same attention from the people who are in a position to make changes and fix them.

Aaron Koolen · April 22nd, 2005, 05:03 AM

Yeah, there isn't really much point posting here if it's just barfing out on you. I haven't had too many problems with 6 (The demo) so far but I haven't used it extensively. At least mine runs unlike others.

Aaron

Peter Jefferson · April 22nd, 2005, 05:41 AM

Well michael, in response to your comments about the member encouraging sales.. i dont recall ever seeing anyone here encourage any sales, apart from hinting that there are certain new features which will (and have already) changed certain peoples workflows.

Its just a shame that this *person* is having problems with the official release, whereby all these problems were not to be expected at time of launch..
it doesnt make the application any worse however..

The application is there now and it does what it says it does..

But like any problem, there is a solution...

with your upgrade query, i would recommend that if u do upgrade, u run a system restore.
Like any aplication which mess with ur registry, running a backup is a wise thing to do..

with regard to the differences from V3, i would say that V6 is worth the upgrade. COnsidering the amount of work thats gone into it and the evolution of Vegas since its hey day, it has slowly matured into a tool which, if want of better words, "fills the mouths of those who like its taste"..

if u like Vegas, go for it, if u dont like it, dont go for it.. some people like it, some people hate it. I know many producers that shun vegas and i know many Avid users that shun everything else.. but once they saw the media management implementation, they took a step back and looked again..
For a studio which relies on archived material or a broadcaster who is pieceing a show together, the media manager is a mind boggling tool which saves alot of time and headaches..
The only thing holding them back was the fact that vegas doesnt support DVCPro (not DVCPro HD) not yet anyway...

yeah things go wrong sometimes, but like i said, theres a solution to every problem..

Aaron Koolen · April 22nd, 2005, 05:48 AM

Peter, do you know if the media manager can be used to manage both your library *AND* the media that's in the current project? And if I make another project, does the old project's stuff get removed?

I want a library that keeps my "permanent" media (loops, stock footage etc) and then can manage a current project's stuff too, but not keep *ALL* , projects stuff in there.

Also, I can't seem to get output via Firewire in the demo, is this disabled? It works fine in Vegas 5

Aaron

Robert Crawford · April 22nd, 2005, 06:53 AM

There are, I think, a lot of people with short tempers and overly high expectations over on the official forums. I had a single problem with Vegas 6 -- after I placed my order for the upgrade, the demo stopped working. I tried a reinstall, and it works again.

Other than that, I've been using it pretty hard since I installed it. I've run some render tests, and it's no slower than V5 on my machine -- not any faster, either, but I've got a single-processor machine without hyperthreading. I never expected any improvement, and the lack of a performance hit is a pleasant surprise.(*)

I haven't had any of the problems people are reporting, but I could just be avoiding the problem areas. The concert video I'm cutting doesn't need much more than color correction.

(*) I'm a programmer professionally. Usually, adding multi-threading to a program and running it on a platform that doesn't multi-thread slows things down. That didn't happen with Vegas.

David Mintzer · April 22nd, 2005, 07:20 AM

There are several problems with 6.0---and Sony is aware of them. Some, (including one I complained about) are already on the bug list. I think that Vegas users are so use to getting a product that is relatively bug free that when something like 6.0 hits the shelves they express their disappointment. There are many reports of crashes ( I can verify this--I made the mistake of starting a long form documentary using 6.0), irregularties with the new scrubber, rendering issues with HDV, BlackMagicDesign issues (notice that BMD doesn't even list Vegas as compatible with their cards) and a bunch of others.

In my mind, 6.0 was released to early (perhaps they needed to show something new at NAB) Having said that, I would think that Sony would make the necessary changes ASAP. This has to be effecting sales. Another point, as a long term Vegas user, I don't want to see my comrades become members of some kind of CULT where the leader can do no wrong. Some constructive criticism is often appropriate and in this case I believe it is right on.

Richard Alvarez · April 22nd, 2005, 07:28 AM

For what its' worth, I dropped by and looked at the forum. It looks a lot like Avid's forum when we get a new upgrade. It's the price you pay. I'm sure it will all shake out in the end.

Peter Jefferson · April 22nd, 2005, 07:42 AM

" It looks a lot like Avid's forum when we get a new upgrade."

yes it does doesnt it.. lol
alot of Avid users arent happy at the moment either.. but they still have the best ENG NLE on teh market to play with..

im curious as to what the Axio is gonna get up to..

David Mintzer · April 22nd, 2005, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

" It looks a lot like Avid's forum when we get a new upgrade."

yes it does doesnt it.. lol
alot of Avid users arent happy at the moment either.. but they still have the best ENG NLE on teh market to play with..

im curious as to what the Axio is gonna get up to..

Only difference is that Vegas users aren't use to this! Previous releases have been pretty much bug-free and the major complaints were with new features or lack thereof. Anyhow, it all comes out in the wash and I know they will fix the problems pretty quickly.

Peter Jefferson · April 22nd, 2005, 08:37 AM

"Only difference is that Vegas users aren't use to this! "

tell me about it.. LOL
U ,know it was the first time since ive ever had a Vegas app which has crashed on its own accord without my doing.. ?? LOL Ive been with it since Vegas came out.. just as Acid was being released.. actually a little after acid....

compared to the problems i see with Prem/Matrox users, Vegas is Bandcamp.. flutes and all.. ;)
I wanna be a flute...

David Mintzer · April 22nd, 2005, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

"Only difference is that Vegas users aren't use to this! "

tell me about it.. LOL
U ,know it was the first time since ive ever had a Vegas app which has crashed on its own accord without my doing.. ?? LOL Ive been with it since Vegas came out.. just as Acid was being released.. actually a little after acid....

compared to the problems i see with Prem/Matrox users, Vegas is Bandcamp.. flutes and all.. ;)
I wanna be a flute...

LOL! Well I guess you and me are oldtimers and we love the application. However, unlike some other people I know, we are not CULT members!

Peter Jefferson · April 22nd, 2005, 09:39 AM

Im not in a Vegas cult!!!!!! LOL

*Padre dons his black hooded robe and slowly murmurs incantations as he skulks away... *

;)

Richard Alvarez · April 22nd, 2005, 09:42 AM

Keep in mind, Vegas is a 'young' product, compared to Avid, Final Cut Pro, or Premiere. There are long periods of stable versions of each of those programs, then an upgrade with shake-out, then stable until the next innovation. That's the way of programs in general. I think the relative simplicity and 'youthfullness' of the Vegas app, lulled people into thinking it would be immune from such issues. The more bells and whistles you hang on a product, the tougher it gets to be bug free. The more platforms and systems it is supposed to run on, the greater the chance of stability issues. Thats why "Mac" programs SEEM to run better than PC, because there are so few variations to Mac OS systems and set ups. When you write a program for PC platforms, the possible variations in OS and Harwarwe systems is bound to create bottlenecks for somebody. It's frustrating for those with problems, to see "I got no problems, I think it's perfect" on postings. It's also frustrating to try and help people, who don't post their system specs.

But you guys know all this...

David Mintzer · April 22nd, 2005, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez

Keep in mind, Vegas is a 'young' product, compared to Avid, Final Cut Pro, or Premiere. There are long periods of stable versions of each of those programs, then an upgrade with shake-out, then stable until the next innovation. That's the way of programs in general. I think the relative simplicity and 'youthfullness' of the Vegas app, lulled people into thinking it would be immune from such issues. The more bells and whistles you hang on a product, the tougher it gets to be bug free. The more platforms and systems it is supposed to run on, the greater the chance of stability issues. Thats why "Mac" programs SEEM to run better than PC, because there are so few variations to Mac OS systems and set ups. When you write a program for PC platforms, the possible variations in OS and Harwarwe systems is bound to create bottlenecks for somebody. It's frustrating for those with problems, to see "I got no problems, I think it's perfect" on postings. It's also frustrating to try and help people, who don't post their system specs.

But you guys know all this...

Heck, Vegas 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 were all "young products" and they ran much better then Premiere ever ran. Avid prosumer products have always been a bit buggy. I agree with your point about adding stuff on making it more likely to have problems---

April 22nd, 2005, 02:58 AM	#1
Michael Pace Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: La Florida Posts: 68	Where's the V6 furor? Forget that 'New Boot' malarkey on my rating-- i've been here for going on 3 years-- been w/ Vegas since V3. I don't post much because i know how to use the 'Search' function Issue: The factory (Sony) forums are positively rippling w/ posts by irate regulars (ie: power/heavy users) about the new V6 release-- they are enraged over some apparently basic flaws in the program; many are having fundamental problems just running the software. I'm a little more than curious why we're not seeing more problems posted here on DVinfo... Like many others i've been checking in here a couple times a day trying to get a pulse on the new V6 release, gauging my upgrade path etc Certain of our members with Sony NDA's waxed ecstatic about the V6 release weeks before the debut-- encouraging folks to think V6 was the Next Coming (and thereby encouraging...ahem...several sales). Now they are posting problems... (there's another thread there in the making about inappropriate pre-release hoopla from NDA-types and Beta testers....but i won't start it)(maybe Chris will start it silently...) Spot posted a well-reasoned and informative reply to the folks on the Sony forum, and from what i've seen here Edward (my own go-to Guru) is not having issues-- why are'nt we seeing similar problems on this forum? I've witnessed the software/camera release circus for a few years now and know it's not all perfect out of the gate, but i'm wondering why we're not seeing the criticism/questioning that's going on in other (inferior, IMO) forums Best to all, Michael Pace Davis, CA

April 22nd, 2005, 05:03 AM	#3
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Yeah, there isn't really much point posting here if it's just barfing out on you. I haven't had too many problems with 6 (The demo) so far but I haven't used it extensively. At least mine runs unlike others. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

April 22nd, 2005, 05:48 AM	#5
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Peter, do you know if the media manager can be used to manage both your library AND the media that's in the current project? And if I make another project, does the old project's stuff get removed? I want a library that keeps my "permanent" media (loops, stock footage etc) and then can manage a current project's stuff too, but not keep ALL , projects stuff in there. Also, I can't seem to get output via Firewire in the demo, is this disabled? It works fine in Vegas 5 Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

April 22nd, 2005, 03:40 AM	#2
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	I have been wondering myself. But I have put it down to the fact that on the Sony forums the staff who actually make the program read all the comments and reply there. So complaining about any problems in Vegas 6 over here wouldn't garner the same attention from the people who are in a position to make changes and fix them.

April 22nd, 2005, 05:41 AM	#4
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Well michael, in response to your comments about the member encouraging sales.. i dont recall ever seeing anyone here encourage any sales, apart from hinting that there are certain new features which will (and have already) changed certain peoples workflows. Its just a shame that this person is having problems with the official release, whereby all these problems were not to be expected at time of launch.. it doesnt make the application any worse however.. The application is there now and it does what it says it does.. But like any problem, there is a solution... with your upgrade query, i would recommend that if u do upgrade, u run a system restore. Like any aplication which mess with ur registry, running a backup is a wise thing to do.. with regard to the differences from V3, i would say that V6 is worth the upgrade. COnsidering the amount of work thats gone into it and the evolution of Vegas since its hey day, it has slowly matured into a tool which, if want of better words, "fills the mouths of those who like its taste".. if u like Vegas, go for it, if u dont like it, dont go for it.. some people like it, some people hate it. I know many producers that shun vegas and i know many Avid users that shun everything else.. but once they saw the media management implementation, they took a step back and looked again.. For a studio which relies on archived material or a broadcaster who is pieceing a show together, the media manager is a mind boggling tool which saves alot of time and headaches.. The only thing holding them back was the fact that vegas doesnt support DVCPro (not DVCPro HD) not yet anyway... yeah things go wrong sometimes, but like i said, theres a solution to every problem..

April 22nd, 2005, 06:53 AM	#6
Robert Crawford Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 33	There are, I think, a lot of people with short tempers and overly high expectations over on the official forums. I had a single problem with Vegas 6 -- after I placed my order for the upgrade, the demo stopped working. I tried a reinstall, and it works again. Other than that, I've been using it pretty hard since I installed it. I've run some render tests, and it's no slower than V5 on my machine -- not any faster, either, but I've got a single-processor machine without hyperthreading. I never expected any improvement, and the lack of a performance hit is a pleasant surprise.() I haven't had any of the problems people are reporting, but I could just be avoiding the problem areas. The concert video I'm cutting doesn't need much more than color correction. () I'm a programmer professionally. Usually, adding multi-threading to a program and running it on a platform that doesn't multi-thread slows things down. That didn't happen with Vegas.

April 22nd, 2005, 07:20 AM	#7
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	There are several problems with 6.0---and Sony is aware of them. Some, (including one I complained about) are already on the bug list. I think that Vegas users are so use to getting a product that is relatively bug free that when something like 6.0 hits the shelves they express their disappointment. There are many reports of crashes ( I can verify this--I made the mistake of starting a long form documentary using 6.0), irregularties with the new scrubber, rendering issues with HDV, BlackMagicDesign issues (notice that BMD doesn't even list Vegas as compatible with their cards) and a bunch of others. In my mind, 6.0 was released to early (perhaps they needed to show something new at NAB) Having said that, I would think that Sony would make the necessary changes ASAP. This has to be effecting sales. Another point, as a long term Vegas user, I don't want to see my comrades become members of some kind of CULT where the leader can do no wrong. Some constructive criticism is often appropriate and in this case I believe it is right on.

April 22nd, 2005, 07:28 AM	#8
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	For what its' worth, I dropped by and looked at the forum. It looks a lot like Avid's forum when we get a new upgrade. It's the price you pay. I'm sure it will all shake out in the end.

April 22nd, 2005, 07:42 AM	#9
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	" It looks a lot like Avid's forum when we get a new upgrade." yes it does doesnt it.. lol alot of Avid users arent happy at the moment either.. but they still have the best ENG NLE on teh market to play with.. im curious as to what the Axio is gonna get up to..

April 22nd, 2005, 08:37 AM	#11
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	"Only difference is that Vegas users aren't use to this! " tell me about it.. LOL U ,know it was the first time since ive ever had a Vegas app which has crashed on its own accord without my doing.. ?? LOL Ive been with it since Vegas came out.. just as Acid was being released.. actually a little after acid.... compared to the problems i see with Prem/Matrox users, Vegas is Bandcamp.. flutes and all.. ;) I wanna be a flute...

April 22nd, 2005, 09:39 AM	#13
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Im not in a Vegas cult!!!!!! LOL Padre dons his black hooded robe and slowly murmurs incantations as he skulks away... ;)

April 22nd, 2005, 09:42 AM	#14
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Keep in mind, Vegas is a 'young' product, compared to Avid, Final Cut Pro, or Premiere. There are long periods of stable versions of each of those programs, then an upgrade with shake-out, then stable until the next innovation. That's the way of programs in general. I think the relative simplicity and 'youthfullness' of the Vegas app, lulled people into thinking it would be immune from such issues. The more bells and whistles you hang on a product, the tougher it gets to be bug free. The more platforms and systems it is supposed to run on, the greater the chance of stability issues. Thats why "Mac" programs SEEM to run better than PC, because there are so few variations to Mac OS systems and set ups. When you write a program for PC platforms, the possible variations in OS and Harwarwe systems is bound to create bottlenecks for somebody. It's frustrating for those with problems, to see "I got no problems, I think it's perfect" on postings. It's also frustrating to try and help people, who don't post their system specs. But you guys know all this...