Vegas 6 -- Does it support DVCPRO HD? at DVinfo.net

Kevin Dooley · April 18th, 2005, 06:39 AM

In light of the new Panny camera, is there a codec included? I'm not worried about the program handling the footage--as it handles... well, anything really, but is there a codec? Can anyone in the know answer this now?

Aaron Koolen · April 18th, 2005, 03:12 PM

I would imagine it doesn't include it - yet. The HVX isn't out until Q4. I'd imagine that Vegas will support it by then. What that means for me is that I possibly won't upgrade Vegas until I'm sure as the HVX is looking to be my next camera later in the year.

Aaron

Kevin Dooley · April 18th, 2005, 03:15 PM

I'm basically in the same boat.

Unless there's a real shocker of a camera out there that no one is aware of yet, the HVX will (provided it lives up to the hype) be my next camera... and who wants to blow $300.00 on an upgrade if you end up having to switch to AVID, or FCP in 9 months? *Hint, Hint*

Glenn Gipson · April 18th, 2005, 03:32 PM

Same boat for me...I'll be switching to Avid unless Vegas has DVCPRO HD support.

Peter Jefferson · April 18th, 2005, 06:08 PM

no it doesnt support it..
MXF is also XDCam format, and at this point in time Vegas doesnt support it..

no word as to whether it ever will either.. :(

Simon Wyndham · April 19th, 2005, 10:52 AM

Remember MFX is just a file wrapper.

Vegas would still need DVCpro50 decoding abilities, just as it would need IMX decoding abilities to read MXF files from the PDW530.

I'm going to contact Sony on the suggestion I might be able to put myself forward as a beta tester for MXF capabilities. Hey, I know it's a long shot, but its worth a try. Anything to speed up their release of this ability!

Glenn Gipson · April 19th, 2005, 11:05 AM

The question is....does Sony even WANT to support a Panasonic codec? Seems crazy...but Sony is notorious for leaving things out for their own perceived benefit (ala, no 24p or 30p on their sub 10k cams.)

Simon Wyndham · April 19th, 2005, 11:16 AM

It is a possibility, but remember that Vegas was one of the first editors to be able to edit at 24p when the DVX100 came out.

Given the uptake I imagine the HVX will have I think Sony would be absolutely stupid not to support it. They would stand to lose more people to Avid or FCP, and I imagine Premiere. Ao I think they will choose the best option will be to support it. Now the REAL question is whether Panasonic would like to license their DVCproHD codec to a Sony product!

Richard Alvarez · April 19th, 2005, 11:33 AM

As an AVID user, I think I have some insight into this. You guys should remember that SONY has a "High End" product to compete with AVID.. the XPRI system. It even mimics the Avid interface. The question in a situation like this, is more about stealing from their own high end, rather than competing with other similar apps.

A lot of the features in Avid Xpress Pro, were locked out (they were in the code, just innaccessable) until similar features showed up in FCP. THEN Avid would unlock the features, that already existed on the high-end products. Every step FCP took, was a blessing to Avid XpressPro Users.

AVID's recent purchase of PINNACLE, gives them more than fifty percent of the overall NLE market share. I think, from a marketing standpoint, that it would benefit VEGAS to emmulate their high-end product, XPRI. That way, they would be training the prosumers to use their broadcast line. But then, If I was a marketing genius, I'd be rich.

John Hartney · April 20th, 2005, 08:35 PM

I agree with Richard.. sony positions Vegas as a prosumer solution, no matter how many people like it as a DV25 editor... it will always be crippled.. Look at the "Gurus" no offence, but none of these guys have a long history is broadcast video or film. They are mostly wedding/event guys who have some programming knowledge, some of them come here to Vegas in retirement! Fine, but clearly not cut from production cloth. Vegas is a prosumer editing solution, still, because that's what Sony wants.

Even that article spot posted about Nightline... notice it got pulled right away. I've worked with the Nightline crew for 25 years, since Kopple started and used to use Chicago as an extention in the 80's. Let's look in two years and see what NLE they're using, in the mean time, don't use ABC for advertising purposes, an insult.

Don Donatello · April 20th, 2005, 09:05 PM

V6 at the moment does not support dvcpro50 codec ...

however if you have a decklink card you can get your dvcpro50 tapes into Vegas same with any other format including dvcpro100 (SDI in and it will use the BM codec's)

note the dvcpro50 codec is highly compressed .. excellent file size but not the best at repeated rendering ..

you can get info on it and many other codec's at

http://codecs.onerivermedia.com/ for dvcpro50 click on 4:2:2 C

"MXF is also XDCam format, and at this point in time Vegas doesnt support it"

you can drop a XDCam (mxf) clip into Vegas 6 TL and it will play/edit it TODAY !! though i don't see it listed in the offical release = it will play/edit the clip.

Simon Wyndham · April 21st, 2005, 03:05 AM

John, yes I had wondered what had happened to the Nightline article. Quite suspect.

Don, unfortunately, despite Ed Troxel seeing quite clearly a version of Vegas 6a Build 99 importing xdcam mxf files, I'm afraid that no matter how much I try I cannot drag mxf files onto the timeline.

Sony have said it was a technology demo, and others have said that this feature isn't very far off. I hope they're right as I desperately need this function.

Joe Carney · April 21st, 2005, 09:06 AM

Simon, Cineform has stated they will support capturing DVCPROHD into their format, claiming it will handle multigenerational rendering better than Panas codec, along with smaller file size and less cpu overhead. If this is true, you at least have a 3rd party option that already works great with Vegas. Maybe not the best answer, but one way or another, Vegas users will not be locked out of the DVCProHD market.

Simon Wyndham · April 21st, 2005, 09:39 AM

Hmm. That would kind of defeat the whole point of being able to shoot and edit in a totally NLE way.

I just don't see what use the Cineform codec will be. Once you've copied the clips from P2 over to your hard drive, its very easy to turn these into YUV or whatever codec you want. Using a Cineform codec means still using the old 'play back the camera' capture route. Completely going against the whole idea of P2 workflow to begin with.

Joe Carney · April 21st, 2005, 09:59 AM

Well, unless you are going render back to the P2 (which you won't) It's really just all the same. I don't see any reason the transfer/conversion couldn't be faster than 1x realtime. Even though Avid does/will support the pana codec, they are recomending editors convert to their new HD Codec for lower overhead and better rendering quality.

Like I said, not the best answer, but still doable.

Besides I'm beginning to view the Cineform codec as a viable option for archiving footage. Because it reduces file size, you could copy projects and source to DVD data disks instead of tape or HardDisk. Just a thought.

If Sony is adding XDCAM MXF support and the users all become squeaky wheels, I'm sure they will provide Pana MXF support in a way you would prefer, reading directly from the card into the timeline. We just all have to make it known that feature is very very important.

April 18th, 2005, 06:39 AM	#1
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	Vegas 6 -- Does it support DVCPRO HD? In light of the new Panny camera, is there a codec included? I'm not worried about the program handling the footage--as it handles... well, anything really, but is there a codec? Can anyone in the know answer this now? __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

April 18th, 2005, 03:12 PM	#2
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	I would imagine it doesn't include it - yet. The HVX isn't out until Q4. I'd imagine that Vegas will support it by then. What that means for me is that I possibly won't upgrade Vegas until I'm sure as the HVX is looking to be my next camera later in the year. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

April 18th, 2005, 03:15 PM	#3
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	I'm basically in the same boat. Unless there's a real shocker of a camera out there that no one is aware of yet, the HVX will (provided it lives up to the hype) be my next camera... and who wants to blow $300.00 on an upgrade if you end up having to switch to AVID, or FCP in 9 months? Hint, Hint __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

April 20th, 2005, 08:35 PM	#10
John Hartney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Elgin, Illinois Posts: 206	I agree with Richard.. sony positions Vegas as a prosumer solution, no matter how many people like it as a DV25 editor... it will always be crippled.. Look at the "Gurus" no offence, but none of these guys have a long history is broadcast video or film. They are mostly wedding/event guys who have some programming knowledge, some of them come here to Vegas in retirement! Fine, but clearly not cut from production cloth. Vegas is a prosumer editing solution, still, because that's what Sony wants. Even that article spot posted about Nightline... notice it got pulled right away. I've worked with the Nightline crew for 25 years, since Kopple started and used to use Chicago as an extention in the 80's. Let's look in two years and see what NLE they're using, in the mean time, don't use ABC for advertising purposes, an insult. __________________ John Hartney Elgin, Illinois USA 847.742.9321

April 18th, 2005, 03:32 PM	#4
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	Same boat for me...I'll be switching to Avid unless Vegas has DVCPRO HD support.

April 18th, 2005, 06:08 PM	#5
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	no it doesnt support it.. MXF is also XDCam format, and at this point in time Vegas doesnt support it.. no word as to whether it ever will either.. :(

April 19th, 2005, 10:52 AM	#6
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Remember MFX is just a file wrapper. Vegas would still need DVCpro50 decoding abilities, just as it would need IMX decoding abilities to read MXF files from the PDW530. I'm going to contact Sony on the suggestion I might be able to put myself forward as a beta tester for MXF capabilities. Hey, I know it's a long shot, but its worth a try. Anything to speed up their release of this ability!

April 19th, 2005, 11:05 AM	#7
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	The question is....does Sony even WANT to support a Panasonic codec? Seems crazy...but Sony is notorious for leaving things out for their own perceived benefit (ala, no 24p or 30p on their sub 10k cams.)

April 19th, 2005, 11:16 AM	#8
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	It is a possibility, but remember that Vegas was one of the first editors to be able to edit at 24p when the DVX100 came out. Given the uptake I imagine the HVX will have I think Sony would be absolutely stupid not to support it. They would stand to lose more people to Avid or FCP, and I imagine Premiere. Ao I think they will choose the best option will be to support it. Now the REAL question is whether Panasonic would like to license their DVCproHD codec to a Sony product!

April 19th, 2005, 11:33 AM	#9
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	As an AVID user, I think I have some insight into this. You guys should remember that SONY has a "High End" product to compete with AVID.. the XPRI system. It even mimics the Avid interface. The question in a situation like this, is more about stealing from their own high end, rather than competing with other similar apps. A lot of the features in Avid Xpress Pro, were locked out (they were in the code, just innaccessable) until similar features showed up in FCP. THEN Avid would unlock the features, that already existed on the high-end products. Every step FCP took, was a blessing to Avid XpressPro Users. AVID's recent purchase of PINNACLE, gives them more than fifty percent of the overall NLE market share. I think, from a marketing standpoint, that it would benefit VEGAS to emmulate their high-end product, XPRI. That way, they would be training the prosumers to use their broadcast line. But then, If I was a marketing genius, I'd be rich.

April 20th, 2005, 09:05 PM	#11
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	V6 at the moment does not support dvcpro50 codec ... however if you have a decklink card you can get your dvcpro50 tapes into Vegas same with any other format including dvcpro100 (SDI in and it will use the BM codec's) note the dvcpro50 codec is highly compressed .. excellent file size but not the best at repeated rendering .. you can get info on it and many other codec's at http://codecs.onerivermedia.com/ for dvcpro50 click on 4:2:2 C "MXF is also XDCam format, and at this point in time Vegas doesnt support it" you can drop a XDCam (mxf) clip into Vegas 6 TL and it will play/edit it TODAY !! though i don't see it listed in the offical release = it will play/edit the clip.

April 21st, 2005, 03:05 AM	#12
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	John, yes I had wondered what had happened to the Nightline article. Quite suspect. Don, unfortunately, despite Ed Troxel seeing quite clearly a version of Vegas 6a Build 99 importing xdcam mxf files, I'm afraid that no matter how much I try I cannot drag mxf files onto the timeline. Sony have said it was a technology demo, and others have said that this feature isn't very far off. I hope they're right as I desperately need this function.

April 21st, 2005, 09:06 AM	#13
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Simon, Cineform has stated they will support capturing DVCPROHD into their format, claiming it will handle multigenerational rendering better than Panas codec, along with smaller file size and less cpu overhead. If this is true, you at least have a 3rd party option that already works great with Vegas. Maybe not the best answer, but one way or another, Vegas users will not be locked out of the DVCProHD market.

April 21st, 2005, 09:39 AM	#14
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Hmm. That would kind of defeat the whole point of being able to shoot and edit in a totally NLE way. I just don't see what use the Cineform codec will be. Once you've copied the clips from P2 over to your hard drive, its very easy to turn these into YUV or whatever codec you want. Using a Cineform codec means still using the old 'play back the camera' capture route. Completely going against the whole idea of P2 workflow to begin with.

April 21st, 2005, 09:59 AM	#15
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Well, unless you are going render back to the P2 (which you won't) It's really just all the same. I don't see any reason the transfer/conversion couldn't be faster than 1x realtime. Even though Avid does/will support the pana codec, they are recomending editors convert to their new HD Codec for lower overhead and better rendering quality. Like I said, not the best answer, but still doable. Besides I'm beginning to view the Cineform codec as a viable option for archiving footage. Because it reduces file size, you could copy projects and source to DVD data disks instead of tape or HardDisk. Just a thought. If Sony is adding XDCAM MXF support and the users all become squeaky wheels, I'm sure they will provide Pana MXF support in a way you would prefer, reading directly from the card into the timeline. We just all have to make it known that feature is very very important.