Vegas Video discussions from 2005 (Q3Q4)

Rob Lohman · September 4th, 2005, 06:17 AM

Which *exact* version of Vegas are you using?

Rob Lohman · September 4th, 2005, 08:38 AM

To what format are you rendering? The network rendering cannot do anything
to help encode the final output file. It can only help in the cropping part and
effects stuff etc. I'm not sure what happens if you encode to something like
mpeg-2. What exact version of Vegas are you running? Tried a search at the
Sony forums?

Peter Moore · September 4th, 2005, 08:48 AM

Version 6.0b.

Rob Lohman · September 4th, 2005, 08:53 AM

Does this also happen when the files are not on a RAID drive? It could also be
that the MJPEG codec and Vegas are not getting along. Are you only seeing
this during preview or also in the final encode?

If other programs do not have a problem with it perhaps you can use those to
transcode the footage to DV first and use that? I know that is a pain in the *ss,
but at least should allow you to move on with the project?

Good luck!

Peter Moore · September 4th, 2005, 08:56 AM

It has happened when the files are not on the raid array, but less frequently. It only shows up in the final render, not on the video preview. It has happened once before with the Huff YUV codec. I think you are right that certain VFW codecs are not getting along with Vegas. But why is it random?

I can't encode to DV cause I'm using HDV here. I have been talking on the Cineform forum about using that codec but I've also been having (unrelated) problems with the quality of CFHD footage rendered straight from Vegas (as opposed to rendered from their HDLink converter, which works fine).

Rob Lohman · September 4th, 2005, 09:08 AM

It almost starts to sound like something else might be wrong (a faulty memory
bank perhaps?)... If not then either it is an obscure Vegas bug (I would contact
Sony on this!) or if you are always encoding to the same file format the encoder
might be wrong?

Peter Moore · September 4th, 2005, 09:44 AM

It's never happened when I use source footage in DV or any other codec that Vegas "likes." It's just with these third party ones sometimes frames get dropped. It also is solely an issue with the source material, not the destination format. I also think, though I don't really have any hard evidence of this, that it is worse if the computer is slower. So all I can guess is that if the computer takes too long to render the frame, the next frame is black. I should probably contact Sony indeed.

Ron Evans · September 4th, 2005, 10:42 AM

Rob, I am rendering to DV. I am aware that rendering to MPEG2 would need licenses on all machines according to the instructions that I read in the manual. The render clearly starts but then stops after a few seconds. That's the piece that is puzzling me. I am cropping an SD video from the HDV file. It works very well really simulating a multi camera shoot, and the user interface for the crop is the best of the three NLE's that I have. But the rendering is incredibly slow. From the intermediate CFHD file it is almost 5 times realtime on my AMD dual core 4200+. Premiere (with AspectHD)is almost realtime as is Edius PRo3 from HQ file. I am trying to see how much network rending helps. Rendering is clearly a problem for Vegas one reason I have only used it for audio in the past. If my videos were only 2 min it wouldn't matter but for 2 hours it will take half a day to render. I can see I will be returning to the way I did NLE's in the beginning of just rendering a few minutes at a time!!! Such a pity as the crop user interface is the best of them all. Edius Pro3 has a layout crop interface but no keyframes otherwise it would be my choice for speed and quality.

Ron Evans

Rob Lohman · September 4th, 2005, 02:17 PM

Is there a chance that the networked machines do not have the right codec?
Do you need to install something for HDV that is not installed on those machines?

Mark Easton · September 4th, 2005, 04:50 PM

Has anyne tried out the new versions of Vegas Movie Studio yet or found any reviews. Specifically I am interested in knowing whether it would be worth paying the extra $50 for the Platinum edition.
I am not editing HDV and don;t care so much about the sound effects etc they throw in but the primary colour correction tools might make it worth while.
Any advice or links appreciated

Cheers
Mark

Edward Troxel · September 4th, 2005, 07:00 PM

Beyond that, I believe the Pixelan tool is only available in the Platinum version. Looking at costs, that alone is worth the price difference.

Michael Wisniewski · September 4th, 2005, 07:05 PM

The Acid XMC package is nice if you want to upgrade later. But I think you nailed it, aside from the Pixelan F/X, the color correction is the main difference. Between the two, I think it's worth the $50.

Christopher Lefchik · September 4th, 2005, 08:25 PM

Dan,

Well, "H.264 Encoder" shows up under the list of QuickTime codecs in the Adobe Media Encoder. I kind of doubt the Nero H.264 codec (yes, I have Nero 6.6 installed) would show up, as I would think the system would have to know it is a QuickTime codec before it would appear on the list (and it's not really a QuickTime codec, just a QuickTime compatible codec). Not every codec can appear in the Adobe Media Encoder. Only MPEG, QuickTime, RealMedia, and Windows Media codecs can be accessed.

It's been awhile since I first learned about the Nero H.264 codec, so I don't remember, but I think I would have checked at the time if I could access it in Premiere Pro. I don't think you can. But someone with Premiere Pro and Nero 6.6 installed, without QuickTime 7, would have to confirm.

Christopher Lefchik · September 4th, 2005, 08:31 PM

Peter,

If you do export to the QuickTime H.264 codec from Premiere Pro, make sure you use the deinterlace filter (if you have interlaced footage) for the best quality. Otherwise my videos looked terrible.

One thing I have found is that for some reason the bitrate slider in Adobe Media Encoder is totally inaccurate when encoding to QuickTime files. If my memory servers me correctly I believe it has to be set to around 25 Kb/s to get an approximately 350 Kb/s file.

James Connors · September 5th, 2005, 04:48 AM

I've done this before and it worked fine (I had to process some live band footage to send to an American producer) but I've only got time for one shot at this, so I don't want to mess it up, as I need to get a DVD of it to some American guys tomorrow.

I've got some footage of them playing taped in PAL DV on a PAL Cam (I'm UK), and obviously they'd want it in a usable format for back home.

Whats the best way of getting vegas to do all this for me? Its only a short set, so rather than export to a different encoder like I usually would, I might just encode straight in vegas to DVD at a very high CBR.

Would I start the project in PAL or NTSC?
What deinterlace settings should i set (bearing in mind I've heard very good things about vegas' 24p encode.. should I use this?)

Its been a while since messing around with NTSC standards, so a quick rundown on what to setup with regards to the project, then the encode would be most appreciated. i presume the 50i > 24p conversion would slow down the audio by 1%, which isn't a problem.. and it'd do this automatically without me having to export audio then reimport it etc?

Cheers!

September 4th, 2005, 06:17 AM	#541
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Which exact version of Vegas are you using? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 4th, 2005, 08:38 AM	#542
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	To what format are you rendering? The network rendering cannot do anything to help encode the final output file. It can only help in the cropping part and effects stuff etc. I'm not sure what happens if you encode to something like mpeg-2. What exact version of Vegas are you running? Tried a search at the Sony forums? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 4th, 2005, 08:53 AM	#544
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Does this also happen when the files are not on a RAID drive? It could also be that the MJPEG codec and Vegas are not getting along. Are you only seeing this during preview or also in the final encode? If other programs do not have a problem with it perhaps you can use those to transcode the footage to DV first and use that? I know that is a pain in the *ss, but at least should allow you to move on with the project? Good luck! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 4th, 2005, 09:08 AM	#546
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	It almost starts to sound like something else might be wrong (a faulty memory bank perhaps?)... If not then either it is an obscure Vegas bug (I would contact Sony on this!) or if you are always encoding to the same file format the encoder might be wrong? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 4th, 2005, 02:17 PM	#549
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Is there a chance that the networked machines do not have the right codec? Do you need to install something for HDV that is not installed on those machines? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 4th, 2005, 08:48 AM	#543
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Version 6.0b.

September 4th, 2005, 08:56 AM	#545
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	It has happened when the files are not on the raid array, but less frequently. It only shows up in the final render, not on the video preview. It has happened once before with the Huff YUV codec. I think you are right that certain VFW codecs are not getting along with Vegas. But why is it random? I can't encode to DV cause I'm using HDV here. I have been talking on the Cineform forum about using that codec but I've also been having (unrelated) problems with the quality of CFHD footage rendered straight from Vegas (as opposed to rendered from their HDLink converter, which works fine).

September 4th, 2005, 09:44 AM	#547
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	It's never happened when I use source footage in DV or any other codec that Vegas "likes." It's just with these third party ones sometimes frames get dropped. It also is solely an issue with the source material, not the destination format. I also think, though I don't really have any hard evidence of this, that it is worse if the computer is slower. So all I can guess is that if the computer takes too long to render the frame, the next frame is black. I should probably contact Sony indeed.

September 4th, 2005, 10:42 AM	#548
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Rob, I am rendering to DV. I am aware that rendering to MPEG2 would need licenses on all machines according to the instructions that I read in the manual. The render clearly starts but then stops after a few seconds. That's the piece that is puzzling me. I am cropping an SD video from the HDV file. It works very well really simulating a multi camera shoot, and the user interface for the crop is the best of the three NLE's that I have. But the rendering is incredibly slow. From the intermediate CFHD file it is almost 5 times realtime on my AMD dual core 4200+. Premiere (with AspectHD)is almost realtime as is Edius PRo3 from HQ file. I am trying to see how much network rending helps. Rendering is clearly a problem for Vegas one reason I have only used it for audio in the past. If my videos were only 2 min it wouldn't matter but for 2 hours it will take half a day to render. I can see I will be returning to the way I did NLE's in the beginning of just rendering a few minutes at a time!!! Such a pity as the crop user interface is the best of them all. Edius Pro3 has a layout crop interface but no keyframes otherwise it would be my choice for speed and quality. Ron Evans

September 4th, 2005, 04:50 PM	#550
Mark Easton New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Posts: 22	Vegas Movie Studio Platinum Has anyne tried out the new versions of Vegas Movie Studio yet or found any reviews. Specifically I am interested in knowing whether it would be worth paying the extra $50 for the Platinum edition. I am not editing HDV and don;t care so much about the sound effects etc they throw in but the primary colour correction tools might make it worth while. Any advice or links appreciated Cheers Mark

September 4th, 2005, 07:00 PM	#551
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Beyond that, I believe the Pixelan tool is only available in the Platinum version. Looking at costs, that alone is worth the price difference. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

September 4th, 2005, 07:05 PM	#552
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	The Acid XMC package is nice if you want to upgrade later. But I think you nailed it, aside from the Pixelan F/X, the color correction is the main difference. Between the two, I think it's worth the $50. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

September 4th, 2005, 08:25 PM	#553
Christopher Lefchik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: US Posts: 1,152	Dan, Well, "H.264 Encoder" shows up under the list of QuickTime codecs in the Adobe Media Encoder. I kind of doubt the Nero H.264 codec (yes, I have Nero 6.6 installed) would show up, as I would think the system would have to know it is a QuickTime codec before it would appear on the list (and it's not really a QuickTime codec, just a QuickTime compatible codec). Not every codec can appear in the Adobe Media Encoder. Only MPEG, QuickTime, RealMedia, and Windows Media codecs can be accessed. It's been awhile since I first learned about the Nero H.264 codec, so I don't remember, but I think I would have checked at the time if I could access it in Premiere Pro. I don't think you can. But someone with Premiere Pro and Nero 6.6 installed, without QuickTime 7, would have to confirm.

September 4th, 2005, 08:31 PM	#554
Christopher Lefchik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: US Posts: 1,152	Peter, If you do export to the QuickTime H.264 codec from Premiere Pro, make sure you use the deinterlace filter (if you have interlaced footage) for the best quality. Otherwise my videos looked terrible. One thing I have found is that for some reason the bitrate slider in Adobe Media Encoder is totally inaccurate when encoding to QuickTime files. If my memory servers me correctly I believe it has to be set to around 25 Kb/s to get an approximately 350 Kb/s file.

September 5th, 2005, 04:48 AM	#555
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	Semi Urgent PAL > NTSC Project I've done this before and it worked fine (I had to process some live band footage to send to an American producer) but I've only got time for one shot at this, so I don't want to mess it up, as I need to get a DVD of it to some American guys tomorrow. I've got some footage of them playing taped in PAL DV on a PAL Cam (I'm UK), and obviously they'd want it in a usable format for back home. Whats the best way of getting vegas to do all this for me? Its only a short set, so rather than export to a different encoder like I usually would, I might just encode straight in vegas to DVD at a very high CBR. Would I start the project in PAL or NTSC? What deinterlace settings should i set (bearing in mind I've heard very good things about vegas' 24p encode.. should I use this?) Its been a while since messing around with NTSC standards, so a quick rundown on what to setup with regards to the project, then the encode would be most appreciated. i presume the 50i > 24p conversion would slow down the audio by 1%, which isn't a problem.. and it'd do this automatically without me having to export audio then reimport it etc? Cheers!