Vegas Video discussions from 2005 (Q3Q4)

Kevin Red · August 2nd, 2005, 12:28 PM

Maybe it is Vegas 6.0b can someone tell me how to use or render HDV as a cineform AVI?

Don Meers · August 2nd, 2005, 02:40 PM

Im wanting to view a true 16x9 avi created in vegas5, on my media player (real)
All im getting is a 4:3 playback.
Shot on xl2 set to 16x9
set to dv widescreen for properties
set to dv widescreen for render
preview is in 16x9

any suggestions?

Miguel Lopez · August 3rd, 2005, 11:36 AM

hello. I don´t know what HD codec should i use.

I am going to digitize HDCam footage (25p). And i want to edit it on vegas6. I find these templates:

- MPEG2: HDV codec (i guess this is bad because resolution and compression)

- MPEG2: HD 1080 25p ?????????????

- AVI: HDV 1080 50i intermediate ????????

- AVI: HDV 1080 50i YUV ?????????????

- AVI: HDV 1080 25p YUV (GearShift) ??????????

- QUICKTIME: custom template using 1920x1080 25p and JPG compression at 100% (i find this easy to use, gives a very good quality and the file size is quite small)

So what do you think it will be the best codec to use? I will have a very good PC but not an HD acceleration board or so. After i have the files i will make an offline editing first.
COuld anyone explain the main differences and characteristics of the codecs?

thanks

Greg Jacobson · August 3rd, 2005, 04:12 PM

just as good to me as the individual frame before the conversion. I was under the impression that converting to 24p made the individual frames softer. So I am pretty happy with this.

So now if I want to load the 24p file into Premeire Pro do I set it up as a 24p project or can I edit it in a 29.7 project? I know that inside Vegas the project automatically changes to a 24p project after you run it through Ultimate S but Premeire Pro only has a 24p setting for the DVX.

Matt Brabender · August 3rd, 2005, 05:19 PM

I don't know why but I have a vegas project which leaves one particular avi offline.
It's in the original folder and it plays in media player so there's no problem with the actual file.

But I can't work out how to bring it back online.

I tried shifting it to another folder so vegas would prompt me to search for it. I specifiy where it is, vegas seems happy with that and then it proceeds to open the project and still leaves that avi offline.

can someone please help me get this file online?

---correction---
it's seems the avi file has become a sound file, even though it is still an avi file.
wtf?
the pc says it's an avi, but media player and vegas treat it as a sound file. What would caust this and how do I fix it?

Peter Jefferson · August 3rd, 2005, 11:01 PM

AVI: HDV 1080 50i intermediate ????????

- AVI: HDV 1080 50i YUV ?????????????

- AVI: HDV 1080 25p YUV (GearShift) ??????????

YUV is prolly the best of thr bunch though.. ask DSE, hes got a nice little configuration happening with YUV which I read on another forum.. Im lazy, i use the cineform HDV codec which is an AVI

Eric Lagerlof · August 4th, 2005, 12:21 AM

I just downloaded a trial version of Vegas 6 to try with my FX-1. Following the settings in the program, I cleared the external capture in options>video and adjusted settings in the internal capture window, where I got the FX-1 listed in the drop down device selection box. But the capture window remains blue with an 'unloaded' message. Turn the camera off, it says, correctly, 'device not available'. Turn the camera back on and the unloaded message appears. (And yes, there is a tape, playable, in HDV format in the camera). Any ideas?

Peter Jefferson · August 4th, 2005, 01:34 AM

is the cam in vcr mode? stupid Q but it has to be asked..

John Rofrano · August 4th, 2005, 05:55 AM

I am not familiar with Premiere Pro (I’m a Vegas user) but once you have run the footage through Ultimate S it is now 24p footage. So I would imagine that in Premiere Pro you would do best to set up a 24p project so that it doesn’t Telecine the footage (‘cuz it might not do as good a job as Vegas does).

~jr

John Rofrano · August 4th, 2005, 06:10 AM

The MPEG2 HDV codecs are what the HDV camera uses but are difficult to edit with because they use a GOP of 15 frames which means your PC has to do a LOT of work to render any frame which is not an I-Frame (which is only one out of every 15)

The “intermediate” codecs are the CineForm codecs and a good balance between quality and size. These do not take a lot of computer power to work with but it is certainly more than DV requires so you still need a fairly new computer. (which it sounds like you have)

The “YUV” codecs from Sony are exceptional quality but they take more computer power than the intermediate codecs. These should be used if you are going back to DVCAM. If you’re final format is DVD then the intermediate codecs are also a good choice. If you are going back to HDCAM then MPEG2 HDV is the best choice but will be difficult to edit.

It looks like you also have GearShift installed. For the highest quality, you can capture MPEG2 HDV and render a DV Widescreen proxy with GearShift to edit with. Then swap the proxy out with the original footage for your renders.

You choice ultimately depends on what your delivery format will be.

~jr

Miguel Lopez · August 4th, 2005, 06:18 AM

Thanks.

But why do you say mpeg2 HDV will give me more quality.

I will shot on HDCAM which is better than HDV in size and color. So why downconvert to HDV?

Right now i think the easiest and most compatible way of doing it is to ask for a conversion from HDCAM to quicktime at HD res and jpg compression at 100%. Then, having these files on my pc, downconvert to DV, edit an offline project and then swap the files with the quicktime HD files. Then render the entire project at HD quality (it will take a while, but that is not a problem) and finally a transfer to film.

John Rofrano · August 4th, 2005, 07:08 AM

Sorry, I missed the fact that you were shooting HDCAM. YUV is probably a good choice then. It is Sony’s codec and works well in Vegas. I don’t know how well Quicktime works with Vegas. I’ve never used it.

~jr

Edward Troxel · August 4th, 2005, 07:17 AM

The only time I've seen a clip go "offline" when it really wasn't, simply exiting and restarting Vegas solved the issue. You might want to try a full reboot and see if that makes a difference.

Glenn Chan · August 4th, 2005, 08:35 AM

In my experience Quicktime DV is slooow in Vegas. Your mileage may vary.

I think it would be easy to output a quicktime HD clip from Vegas and test your system's speed.

2- If you want to use Vegas, perhaps your best bet is to capture on your Vegas system with the Sony YUV codec (no compression I believe). You will however need to figure everything out, and you'll need a Decklink card and a really fast RAID array (check the Blackmagic recommendations).

Once you have the footage captured you should be able to use gearshift and edit with DV proxies.

I have no idea if that setup works. I'm not sure of anyone editing uncompressed HD on Vegas... you might want to try on the Sony forums too.

Eric Lagerlof · August 4th, 2005, 09:42 AM

Yes, it is in VCR mode, but thanks for checking. As one who has done lots of live show work, I know that 'Dummy Checks' are never really stupid! One thing that may effect this though is an error message for the media manager; something about my "sql something-or-other not having privleges". So Vegas installed ok but no the media manager. Considering all the hoops with the latest direct x and net framework downloads that i had to go through, it's kind of a drag.

August 2nd, 2005, 12:28 PM	#226
Kevin Red Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 103	Vegas 6.0 comes with cineform codec? Maybe it is Vegas 6.0b can someone tell me how to use or render HDV as a cineform AVI?

August 2nd, 2005, 02:40 PM	#227
Don Meers Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 63	Viewing 16x9 on media player Im wanting to view a true 16x9 avi created in vegas5, on my media player (real) All im getting is a 4:3 playback. Shot on xl2 set to 16x9 set to dv widescreen for properties set to dv widescreen for render preview is in 16x9 any suggestions?

August 3rd, 2005, 11:36 AM	#228
Miguel Lopez Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 187	HD codec: what should i use? hello. I don´t know what HD codec should i use. I am going to digitize HDCam footage (25p). And i want to edit it on vegas6. I find these templates: - MPEG2: HDV codec (i guess this is bad because resolution and compression) - MPEG2: HD 1080 25p ????????????? - AVI: HDV 1080 50i intermediate ???????? - AVI: HDV 1080 50i YUV ????????????? - AVI: HDV 1080 25p YUV (GearShift) ?????????? - QUICKTIME: custom template using 1920x1080 25p and JPG compression at 100% (i find this easy to use, gives a very good quality and the file size is quite small) So what do you think it will be the best codec to use? I will have a very good PC but not an HD acceleration board or so. After i have the files i will make an offline editing first. COuld anyone explain the main differences and characteristics of the codecs? thanks

August 3rd, 2005, 04:12 PM	#229
Greg Jacobson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New York Posts: 141	Individual frames after running through Ultimate S look just as good to me as the individual frame before the conversion. I was under the impression that converting to 24p made the individual frames softer. So I am pretty happy with this. So now if I want to load the 24p file into Premeire Pro do I set it up as a 24p project or can I edit it in a 29.7 project? I know that inside Vegas the project automatically changes to a 24p project after you run it through Ultimate S but Premeire Pro only has a 24p setting for the DVX.

August 3rd, 2005, 05:19 PM	#230
Matt Brabender Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 230	how to bring offline media online? I don't know why but I have a vegas project which leaves one particular avi offline. It's in the original folder and it plays in media player so there's no problem with the actual file. But I can't work out how to bring it back online. I tried shifting it to another folder so vegas would prompt me to search for it. I specifiy where it is, vegas seems happy with that and then it proceeds to open the project and still leaves that avi offline. can someone please help me get this file online? ---correction--- it's seems the avi file has become a sound file, even though it is still an avi file. wtf? the pc says it's an avi, but media player and vegas treat it as a sound file. What would caust this and how do I fix it? Last edited by Matt Brabender; August 3rd, 2005 at 07:08 PM.

August 3rd, 2005, 11:01 PM	#231
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	AVI: HDV 1080 50i intermediate ???????? - AVI: HDV 1080 50i YUV ????????????? - AVI: HDV 1080 25p YUV (GearShift) ?????????? YUV is prolly the best of thr bunch though.. ask DSE, hes got a nice little configuration happening with YUV which I read on another forum.. Im lazy, i use the cineform HDV codec which is an AVI

August 4th, 2005, 12:21 AM	#232
Eric Lagerlof Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 348	Unloaded??? I just downloaded a trial version of Vegas 6 to try with my FX-1. Following the settings in the program, I cleared the external capture in options>video and adjusted settings in the internal capture window, where I got the FX-1 listed in the drop down device selection box. But the capture window remains blue with an 'unloaded' message. Turn the camera off, it says, correctly, 'device not available'. Turn the camera back on and the unloaded message appears. (And yes, there is a tape, playable, in HDV format in the camera). Any ideas?

August 4th, 2005, 01:34 AM	#233
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	is the cam in vcr mode? stupid Q but it has to be asked..

August 4th, 2005, 05:55 AM	#234
John Rofrano Sponsor: VASST Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York Posts: 516	I am not familiar with Premiere Pro (I’m a Vegas user) but once you have run the footage through Ultimate S it is now 24p footage. So I would imagine that in Premiere Pro you would do best to set up a 24p project so that it doesn’t Telecine the footage (‘cuz it might not do as good a job as Vegas does). ~jr __________________ Developer: VASST Ultimate S, Scattershot 3D, Mayhem, FASST Apps, and other VASST Software plug-ins Web Site: www.johnrofrano.com

August 4th, 2005, 06:10 AM	#235
John Rofrano Sponsor: VASST Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York Posts: 516	The MPEG2 HDV codecs are what the HDV camera uses but are difficult to edit with because they use a GOP of 15 frames which means your PC has to do a LOT of work to render any frame which is not an I-Frame (which is only one out of every 15) The “intermediate” codecs are the CineForm codecs and a good balance between quality and size. These do not take a lot of computer power to work with but it is certainly more than DV requires so you still need a fairly new computer. (which it sounds like you have) The “YUV” codecs from Sony are exceptional quality but they take more computer power than the intermediate codecs. These should be used if you are going back to DVCAM. If you’re final format is DVD then the intermediate codecs are also a good choice. If you are going back to HDCAM then MPEG2 HDV is the best choice but will be difficult to edit. It looks like you also have GearShift installed. For the highest quality, you can capture MPEG2 HDV and render a DV Widescreen proxy with GearShift to edit with. Then swap the proxy out with the original footage for your renders. You choice ultimately depends on what your delivery format will be. ~jr __________________ Developer: VASST Ultimate S, Scattershot 3D, Mayhem, FASST Apps, and other VASST Software plug-ins Web Site: www.johnrofrano.com

August 4th, 2005, 06:18 AM	#236
Miguel Lopez Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 187	Thanks. But why do you say mpeg2 HDV will give me more quality. I will shot on HDCAM which is better than HDV in size and color. So why downconvert to HDV? Right now i think the easiest and most compatible way of doing it is to ask for a conversion from HDCAM to quicktime at HD res and jpg compression at 100%. Then, having these files on my pc, downconvert to DV, edit an offline project and then swap the files with the quicktime HD files. Then render the entire project at HD quality (it will take a while, but that is not a problem) and finally a transfer to film.

August 4th, 2005, 07:08 AM	#237
John Rofrano Sponsor: VASST Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York Posts: 516	Sorry, I missed the fact that you were shooting HDCAM. YUV is probably a good choice then. It is Sony’s codec and works well in Vegas. I don’t know how well Quicktime works with Vegas. I’ve never used it. ~jr __________________ Developer: VASST Ultimate S, Scattershot 3D, Mayhem, FASST Apps, and other VASST Software plug-ins Web Site: www.johnrofrano.com

August 4th, 2005, 07:17 AM	#238
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	The only time I've seen a clip go "offline" when it really wasn't, simply exiting and restarting Vegas solved the issue. You might want to try a full reboot and see if that makes a difference. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

August 4th, 2005, 08:35 AM	#239
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	In my experience Quicktime DV is slooow in Vegas. Your mileage may vary. I think it would be easy to output a quicktime HD clip from Vegas and test your system's speed. 2- If you want to use Vegas, perhaps your best bet is to capture on your Vegas system with the Sony YUV codec (no compression I believe). You will however need to figure everything out, and you'll need a Decklink card and a really fast RAID array (check the Blackmagic recommendations). Once you have the footage captured you should be able to use gearshift and edit with DV proxies. I have no idea if that setup works. I'm not sure of anyone editing uncompressed HD on Vegas... you might want to try on the Sony forums too.

August 4th, 2005, 09:42 AM	#240
Eric Lagerlof Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 348	re:stupid question Yes, it is in VCR mode, but thanks for checking. As one who has done lots of live show work, I know that 'Dummy Checks' are never really stupid! One thing that may effect this though is an error message for the media manager; something about my "sql something-or-other not having privleges". So Vegas installed ok but no the media manager. Considering all the hoops with the latest direct x and net framework downloads that i had to go through, it's kind of a drag.