End Credits Flicker / Look Bad *PLEASE HELP at DVinfo.net

Oliver Darden · September 15th, 2009, 12:38 PM

I am trying to finish something by today and I am on the last section , the end credits, and they seem to look really bad while scrolling. They are not clean and sort of have this flicker to them (hard to read). Ive rendered them many ways including having a friend do high quality MOVs and AVI's on his mac with no luck.

Anyone ever run into this?

And its like when I make everything blod text it helps the "flicker"....

Don Bloom · September 15th, 2009, 01:10 PM

what font are you using? Most script fonts and even some non script fonts don't do well in video.

Also a little tip I got from Douglas Spotted Eagle. I make my genrated media 2X the size so if I'm working 720X480 I make the media 1440X960. Don't know if it will help the flickering but it does seem to help the movement.

Anyway try to stay away from fine text, use something a bit bolder. Arial and Verdana work well and so does Montype Corvisa for script font.

Oliver Darden · September 15th, 2009, 01:46 PM

Great idea, I will make it all bold and see what happens

Thanks!

Mike Kujbida · September 15th, 2009, 01:56 PM

Oliver, I've never liked the way Vegas scrolls credits so I do them in the standard title box (much more control over font style, spacing, etc. that way) and then use the Placement tab and keyframes at the start and end (adjust the length accordingly) to do the scroll up.
Works great for me.

Chris Harding · September 15th, 2009, 09:55 PM

Good hint Mike

It does work better I have found plus by using keyframes you can also get the text to scroll up to a position, stop there while the viewer reads it and then scroll it way off the top of the screen. By changing keyframe positions you can also control the scrolling time too. I always found that the built-in scroller was very slow and combined with "skinny" fonts that will contribute to jerky scrolls

Chris

Oliver Darden · September 15th, 2009, 11:18 PM

Ariel and Bold did it.

Thanks!

Steve Renouf · September 16th, 2009, 07:37 AM

I use a slightly different method, which has worked well for me.

I don't use any built-in titlers for moving titles (only static/fade-in/fade-out). What I do for moving titles/credits is produce a PNG in Gimp (or editor of your choice), bring that onto the time-line and use pan/crop to produce the scrolling effect. Doing it this way means you can use a much higher resolution file so the anti-aliasing is better and you get a much smoother scroll.

Mike Kujbida · September 16th, 2009, 08:34 AM

Steve, I've done it your way as well (a LOT more options this way) but, if I need something "quick and dirty", the technique I mentioned is fine.

Steve Renouf · September 16th, 2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Kujbida

Steve, I've done it your way as well (a LOT more options this way) but, if I need something "quick and dirty", the technique I mentioned is fine.

Mike, I think I recall doing it your way on vertical scrolling in the past and I seem to recall it was an improvement but I thought I'd have a go with ProTitler, (as I've just started using Vegas 9.0b x64 for a long project [nested vegs from 8.oc] over 2 hours) in the hope that it would produce vastly improved results but, alas, I was disappointed!

Also, I couldn't seem to get it to produce a horizontal scroll along the bottom third and when I tried it with static text and pan/crop it produced the usual jerky results. In the end I gave up and went back to my tried and tested method of using a graphic. It takes longer to produce because it involves more processes but, for me, it's worth the extra effort for the much smoother scrolls and better anti-aliasing it produces.

Mike Kujbida · September 16th, 2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Renouf

Mike, I think I recall doing it your way on vertical scrolling in the past and I seem to recall it was an improvement but I thought I'd have a go with ProTitler, (as I've just started using Vegas 9.0b x64 for a long project [nested vegs from 8.oc] over 2 hours) in the hope that it would produce vastly improved results but, alas, I was disappointed!

I was too (disappointed, that is) so don't feel alone :-(
It does some nice tricks but it's still not a clean titler.

Quote:

Also, I couldn't seem to get it to produce a horizontal scroll along the bottom third and when I tried it with static text and pan/crop it produced the usual jerky results. In the end I gave up and went back to my tried and tested method of using a graphic. It takes longer to produce because it involves more processes but, for me, it's worth the extra effort for the much smoother scrolls and better anti-aliasing it produces.

Here's the way I do it, Pan/Crop isn't required and, IMHO, the results are pretty good.
Using the basic Titler, enter all your text on a single line.
Adjust font type, size & colour accordingly.
Figure out how long you want the scroll to take and enter this value in the "Length" box.
Click on the Placement tab.
Moe the text to the right using either the hand in the text box or by entering a value in the "X" box.
This creates a keyframe at the beginning.
Take note of the values in both the "X" and "Y" boxes.
Go to the end of the timeline by clicking the "Last Keyframe" button.
Enter the values noted previously in the "X" & "Y" boxes but change the "X" value to a negative number.
For example, if "X" was set to "10" on the first keyframe, make sure it's now set to "-10".
Also, make sure the "Y" values are identical or you'll see the text float up and/or down.
Play it to make sure your length is correct.
If not, adjust it accordingly and remember to change the position of the last keyframe.

Sam Houchins II · September 17th, 2009, 06:37 AM

How about trying applying a tiny amount of motion blur, and a judicious amount of supersampling to the credits... and ONLY to the credits (because of increased rendering time)?

John Peterson · September 17th, 2009, 07:28 AM

The Vegas Credit Roll doesn't appear to be a priority for Sony software developers any more than it was for Sonic Foundry. It is the original credit roll generator which, despite numerous requests over the years, will probably never be improved.

However, I don't find the flicker when using the standard white letters on a "black" background any different than what I see at the end of most Hollywood movies. They all seem to flicker.

John

Ian Stark · September 19th, 2009, 02:35 AM

Appreciated that this is slightly out of the scope of his thread, but reading through it reminded me of a great article (originally linked to by Mike Kujbida) on getting great text. It's not specifically a Vegas article but it's totally relevant. Thanks again Mike. Here's the link again: Great Titles with the DV Codec

Jim Snow · September 19th, 2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Stark

Appreciated that this is slightly out of the scope of his thread, but reading through it reminded me of a great article (originally linked to by Mike Kujbida) on getting great text. It's not specifically a Vegas article but it's totally relevant. Thanks again Mike. Here's the link again: Great Titles with the DV Codec

Thanks Ian; that's the most comprehensive and useful article I have ever seen on the subject.

Mike Kujbida · September 19th, 2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Stark

Thanks again Mike.[/url]

My pleasure Ian.
I've recommended this article numerous times in the past and am glad to see that it's still relevant.

September 15th, 2009, 12:38 PM	#1
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	*End Credits Flicker / Look Bad PLEASE HELP** I am trying to finish something by today and I am on the last section , the end credits, and they seem to look really bad while scrolling. They are not clean and sort of have this flicker to them (hard to read). Ive rendered them many ways including having a friend do high quality MOVs and AVI's on his mac with no luck. Anyone ever run into this? And its like when I make everything blod text it helps the "flicker"....

September 15th, 2009, 01:10 PM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	what font are you using? Most script fonts and even some non script fonts don't do well in video. Also a little tip I got from Douglas Spotted Eagle. I make my genrated media 2X the size so if I'm working 720X480 I make the media 1440X960. Don't know if it will help the flickering but it does seem to help the movement. Anyway try to stay away from fine text, use something a bit bolder. Arial and Verdana work well and so does Montype Corvisa for script font. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

September 16th, 2009, 07:37 AM	#7
Steve Renouf Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Jersey, GB Posts: 182	Alternative method I use a slightly different method, which has worked well for me. I don't use any built-in titlers for moving titles (only static/fade-in/fade-out). What I do for moving titles/credits is produce a PNG in Gimp (or editor of your choice), bring that onto the time-line and use pan/crop to produce the scrolling effect. Doing it this way means you can use a much higher resolution file so the anti-aliasing is better and you get a much smoother scroll.

September 19th, 2009, 02:35 AM	#13
Ian Stark Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,237	Appreciated that this is slightly out of the scope of his thread, but reading through it reminded me of a great article (originally linked to by Mike Kujbida) on getting great text. It's not specifically a Vegas article but it's totally relevant. Thanks again Mike. Here's the link again: Great Titles with the DV Codec __________________ www.vit-media.com www.classicmachinefilms.co.uk

September 15th, 2009, 01:46 PM	#3
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Great idea, I will make it all bold and see what happens Thanks!

September 15th, 2009, 01:56 PM	#4
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Oliver, I've never liked the way Vegas scrolls credits so I do them in the standard title box (much more control over font style, spacing, etc. that way) and then use the Placement tab and keyframes at the start and end (adjust the length accordingly) to do the scroll up. Works great for me.

September 15th, 2009, 09:55 PM	#5
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Good hint Mike It does work better I have found plus by using keyframes you can also get the text to scroll up to a position, stop there while the viewer reads it and then scroll it way off the top of the screen. By changing keyframe positions you can also control the scrolling time too. I always found that the built-in scroller was very slow and combined with "skinny" fonts that will contribute to jerky scrolls Chris

September 15th, 2009, 11:18 PM	#6
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Ariel and Bold did it. Thanks!

September 16th, 2009, 08:34 AM	#8
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Steve, I've done it your way as well (a LOT more options this way) but, if I need something "quick and dirty", the technique I mentioned is fine.

September 17th, 2009, 06:37 AM	#11
Sam Houchins II Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 282	How about trying applying a tiny amount of motion blur, and a judicious amount of supersampling to the credits... and ONLY to the credits (because of increased rendering time)?

September 17th, 2009, 07:28 AM	#12
John Peterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Monroe, NY Posts: 703	The Vegas Credit Roll doesn't appear to be a priority for Sony software developers any more than it was for Sonic Foundry. It is the original credit roll generator which, despite numerous requests over the years, will probably never be improved. However, I don't find the flicker when using the standard white letters on a "black" background any different than what I see at the end of most Hollywood movies. They all seem to flicker. John