E6 look with colour curves.. at DVinfo.net

Peter Jefferson · February 23rd, 2005, 07:08 AM

okies heres a good one..

Im trying to acheive an old photographic film trick called E6.. basically oversaturating colours and contrast without killing off the detail.

Now ive come close with the colour curves, REALLY CLOSE in fact.. but its still missing something.. i cant picture it.. it jsut doesnt feel right.. maybe its me.. maybe the actaul look doesnt go well with video... ?? who knows..

but does anyone know of a good setting to achieve this look??

if u need a hand in figuring out what im rambling about, just do a google search on E6 photography :)

thx in advance :)

James Connors · February 23rd, 2005, 07:35 AM

This sounds really interesting, I made a post in Open DV about wanting to achieve the insane saturation of music vids (a la Who Let The Dogs Out, wonderful colours) and your description makes me think this could well be a step I should take.

Any chance you can put up some samples of your before and after shots (presuming you're starting off with decent quality natural video?) and the settings you used to obtain?

Thanks!

ps I tried to use google quickly, but couldn't find anything that went into detail about what E6 is and the differences it made, but I'm in work so can't really spend much time looking things up at the moment :)

Gary Kleiner · February 23rd, 2005, 01:52 PM

Here's a tip:

If you want help with something, don't make us work to find an example of what you are talking about.

Post an image or a link.

Gary

Peter Jefferson · February 24th, 2005, 06:38 AM

ooerr.. sorry.. i thought if anyone was intersted enough theyd do a search..not to help me, but to get an idea as to what E6 is all about...

for those that dont now, its a chemical pass of film into a Slide chemical, basically changing the films images colour values as teyre differ from Slides..
based on explosure, contrast and gamma values, the Slide E6 chemicals have an adverse effect on film which is normally process in C41 chemical compounds.
its basically a cross process..

here u go.

http://mag.weddingcentral.com.au/pho...phic_terms.htm

James Connors · February 24th, 2005, 07:18 AM

Does look cool, can you take a screenshot of your curves so I can have a mess around myself? The site there does say it can be done digitally, so I don't see any reason why it won't work on video...

Peter Jefferson · February 24th, 2005, 09:10 AM

DID IT!!!
the curves are a little strange and to get it, the whites blow out a little too much.. still tryin to sort tha t issue out.. but it DOes wrk with colour curves on their own..

Emre Safak · February 24th, 2005, 05:45 PM

If E6 refers to modern slide film, then it can not be done; E6 simply has a wider gamut than NTSC: http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index....SpaceInfo.html

Ahmet Ilhan · February 25th, 2005, 04:05 AM

somewhere cross processing is described as "when you take slide film (e6 processing)and process it as it is color print film (c41 processing)"

It sounds simple but someone with good knowledge of photography has to explain it in order to emulate the effect on DV.

Peter Jefferson · February 25th, 2005, 05:04 AM

its basically an error in colour rendition and chemical composition of slide processing.. an error which looks quite funky ;)

obviously being DV, we wont get the exact same look, but with colour corves and a saturation adjustment, u can get quite close.. then again ur camera has to have the dynamic range (DVX100 in Cinema D mode, or DSR570 <i used footage from these cameras to test> I also tried it with the Z1. but it was too sharp in resolution and very "home video" to be of any use to me)
Anyways.. u need a a cam with a wide dynamic rang to be able to pull this off, else youll be left with a crummy lookin oversaturated pile of pixels..

Peter Jefferson · February 25th, 2005, 05:06 AM

keeping to topic... im gonan do some experimenting tonight with it and see if i can get something happening.. at the moment its lacking something.. i cant put my finger on it..

Richard Alvarez · February 25th, 2005, 08:24 AM

Essentially, this is another effort to immitate a 'film look' like bleach bypass, or grain reticulation. I suppose someone could come up with a filter formula to emmulate it. Don't various companies make a 'bleach bypass' filter?

I recall in my early days at the photolab in Houston, accidentally running a roll of c41 through the e-6 bath. The client really liked the images, and I didn't tell him it was a mistake. (This was back in... '75)

Richard Alvarez · February 25th, 2005, 11:19 AM

Okay, I found it. www.digitalfilmtools.com has a digital film lab set of filters, that includes bleach bypass, and the E6 look. (I had a set of their digital composite tools, great stuff, but I lost access to them in an upgrade)

James Connors · February 26th, 2005, 07:21 AM

Magic Bullet offers this kinda stuff too, you can get a few film look filters free with Vegas (then upgrade for free on the website for a few more) but you'll have to buy Magic Bullet Editors for the lot.

http://www.redgiantsoftware.com from memory

Edward Troxel · February 26th, 2005, 07:28 AM

Just remember, Magic Bullet will increase render times dramatically!

Glen Elliott · February 26th, 2005, 09:39 AM

"Dramatically" doesn't quite say it....

February 23rd, 2005, 07:08 AM	#1
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	E6 look with colour curves.. okies heres a good one.. Im trying to acheive an old photographic film trick called E6.. basically oversaturating colours and contrast without killing off the detail. Now ive come close with the colour curves, REALLY CLOSE in fact.. but its still missing something.. i cant picture it.. it jsut doesnt feel right.. maybe its me.. maybe the actaul look doesnt go well with video... ?? who knows.. but does anyone know of a good setting to achieve this look?? if u need a hand in figuring out what im rambling about, just do a google search on E6 photography :) thx in advance :)

February 26th, 2005, 07:28 AM	#14
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Just remember, Magic Bullet will increase render times dramatically! __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

February 23rd, 2005, 07:35 AM	#2
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	This sounds really interesting, I made a post in Open DV about wanting to achieve the insane saturation of music vids (a la Who Let The Dogs Out, wonderful colours) and your description makes me think this could well be a step I should take. Any chance you can put up some samples of your before and after shots (presuming you're starting off with decent quality natural video?) and the settings you used to obtain? Thanks! ps I tried to use google quickly, but couldn't find anything that went into detail about what E6 is and the differences it made, but I'm in work so can't really spend much time looking things up at the moment :)

February 23rd, 2005, 01:52 PM	#3
Gary Kleiner Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado Posts: 166	Here's a tip: If you want help with something, don't make us work to find an example of what you are talking about. Post an image or a link. Gary

February 24th, 2005, 06:38 AM	#4
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	ooerr.. sorry.. i thought if anyone was intersted enough theyd do a search..not to help me, but to get an idea as to what E6 is all about... for those that dont now, its a chemical pass of film into a Slide chemical, basically changing the films images colour values as teyre differ from Slides.. based on explosure, contrast and gamma values, the Slide E6 chemicals have an adverse effect on film which is normally process in C41 chemical compounds. its basically a cross process.. here u go. http://mag.weddingcentral.com.au/pho...phic_terms.htm

February 24th, 2005, 07:18 AM	#5
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	Does look cool, can you take a screenshot of your curves so I can have a mess around myself? The site there does say it can be done digitally, so I don't see any reason why it won't work on video...

February 24th, 2005, 09:10 AM	#6
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	DID IT!!! the curves are a little strange and to get it, the whites blow out a little too much.. still tryin to sort tha t issue out.. but it DOes wrk with colour curves on their own..

February 24th, 2005, 05:45 PM	#7
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	If E6 refers to modern slide film, then it can not be done; E6 simply has a wider gamut than NTSC: http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index....SpaceInfo.html

February 25th, 2005, 04:05 AM	#8
Ahmet Ilhan Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: ANKARA / TURKEY Posts: 45	somewhere cross processing is described as "when you take slide film (e6 processing)and process it as it is color print film (c41 processing)" It sounds simple but someone with good knowledge of photography has to explain it in order to emulate the effect on DV.

February 25th, 2005, 05:04 AM	#9
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	its basically an error in colour rendition and chemical composition of slide processing.. an error which looks quite funky ;) obviously being DV, we wont get the exact same look, but with colour corves and a saturation adjustment, u can get quite close.. then again ur camera has to have the dynamic range (DVX100 in Cinema D mode, or DSR570 <i used footage from these cameras to test> I also tried it with the Z1. but it was too sharp in resolution and very "home video" to be of any use to me) Anyways.. u need a a cam with a wide dynamic rang to be able to pull this off, else youll be left with a crummy lookin oversaturated pile of pixels..

February 25th, 2005, 05:06 AM	#10
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	keeping to topic... im gonan do some experimenting tonight with it and see if i can get something happening.. at the moment its lacking something.. i cant put my finger on it..

February 25th, 2005, 08:24 AM	#11
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Essentially, this is another effort to immitate a 'film look' like bleach bypass, or grain reticulation. I suppose someone could come up with a filter formula to emmulate it. Don't various companies make a 'bleach bypass' filter? I recall in my early days at the photolab in Houston, accidentally running a roll of c41 through the e-6 bath. The client really liked the images, and I didn't tell him it was a mistake. (This was back in... '75)

February 25th, 2005, 11:19 AM	#12
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Okay, I found it. www.digitalfilmtools.com has a digital film lab set of filters, that includes bleach bypass, and the E6 look. (I had a set of their digital composite tools, great stuff, but I lost access to them in an upgrade)

February 26th, 2005, 07:21 AM	#13
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	Magic Bullet offers this kinda stuff too, you can get a few film look filters free with Vegas (then upgrade for free on the website for a few more) but you'll have to buy Magic Bullet Editors for the lot. http://www.redgiantsoftware.com from memory

February 26th, 2005, 09:39 AM	#15
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	"Dramatically" doesn't quite say it....