Vegas Video discussions from 2005 (Q1Q2)

Milt Lee · January 30th, 2005, 10:25 PM

Smaller....but is there any qualitative difference?

I am working with 1/2 shows so I figure smaller is probably good.

So I think that must be what's going on when DVDA says that it's optimizing the file. Yes?

Keith Paisley · January 31st, 2005, 10:03 AM

Thanks, I knew about the network rendering part but I didn't see the EULA listed anywhere on Sony's Vegas page at sonypictures.com.

I was also under the impression you could install a "network rendering agent" or something like that all by itself rather than a full install of the main software.

<<<-- Originally posted by Edward Troxel : The EULA is posted on Sony's site. The correct answer to this question is that you may install it on both a desktop and laptop AS LONG AS only one is in use at one time. However, with network rendering you may legally install it on THREE computers and use the second two for rendering purposes. -->>>

Vovka Chopine · January 31st, 2005, 10:19 AM

Thank you for reply.
I agree that ads was to long, need about half shorter.
On homework propobly bad download, that short was downloaded over 300 times in last 3 days and you first who tell me about this problem. Intresting info in past 4 days total download trafic over 10Gbt.

Brian Bechard · January 31st, 2005, 10:45 AM

This has happened to me twice now. I render a project out to an AVI file...the project starts teh render process...and at 85% completion it stops for some reason. I end up getting about 5 min of rendered video in AVI form. Both of these were over 30 minutes of video with 2-3 simple filters and minimal text. I set the render quality to good on one and best on the other. What am I doing wrong? I've rendered several smaller projects to AVI files successfully. Am I trying to render too large of a project all at once? Should I "chop it up" into 2or3 segments? Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated!

Brian Bechard · January 31st, 2005, 10:48 AM

Also I'm getting ridiculously long render times for some of my projects...like 9+ hours for 60min of video w/color curves, sharpen and a little glow here and there. My CPU is a P4 1.8ghz, memory 512. Is this normal??

Edward Troxel · January 31st, 2005, 11:23 AM

Here's Sony's official answer to that question:

http://www.custcenter.com/cgi-bin/so...cHV0ZXJz&p_li=

I was also under the impression you could install a "network rendering agent" or something like that all by itself rather than a full install of the main software.

Vegas 5.0 and 5.0a were like that. Vegas 5.0b and newer just install the full product on the rendering machines.

Jeff Toogood · January 31st, 2005, 01:29 PM

I have a P4 2.4 GHZ w/533 FSB with 1 GB Ram.

Thinking about upgrading to a P4 3.2 with hyperthreading with 1 GB Ram.

How much of a performance increase will I see with Vegas rendering times?

Will it be noticeable?

Mark Kubat · January 31st, 2005, 04:02 PM

DSE, am hoping you can share your thoughts here (- or do we have to buy the HDV book??? :)

We'd like to shoot HDV on FX1/Z1 and produce a downconverted SD DVD for NTSC so that the resulting product looks as "filmic" as possible in terms of cadence...

We've tried various things like intermediary progressive 24p/1080 converts and then out to progressive mpeg-2 SD DVD files... sure, we get some interesting results but am wondering if you could suggest a workflow using FX1/Z1 and Vegas 5.0d...

Objective - to shoot HDV and end up with SD DVD that has filmic cadence (we're using Magic Bullet for editors for Vegas to colour etc. so we've got that part down - just that some of our "motion" seems a little too "dream-like" - or "strobey" when we do our progressive intermediary file trick...

J.A.G guy shot cf25 - but DVfilm guys recommend 50i/60i... it's kinda trickier to figure out now in Vegas because cf modes are not progressive files so I don't think Vegas will really allow 2-3 pulldown removal option since it's not DVX-type 24p file...? Moreover, the way Vegas deinterlaces seems to be a bit of a mystery...

As you can see, we've racking our brains on this - hope you can shed some light for us... You really know Vegas (I know others do here too) and you really seem to know Sony HDV, so am really hoping you can help shed some light on this...

any "recipes?"

50i?60i?cf30?24?25?

convert to progressive 1080 25p? 24p? 30p?

resulting progressive out to progressive SD DVD-compliant mpeg-2 or since we've already "deinterlaced" can it stay with a field order...???

Thanks in advance!

Glenn Chan · January 31st, 2005, 06:36 PM

You can use a rule of thumb and divide the CPU's clock speed. This only works when comparing the same family CPU (i.e. it'll never work for Intel vs AMD, or Pentium versus Pentium-M)

Your new system would be roughly a third faster. It should be noticeable, although it's not some huge leap in performance.

Robert Mann Z. · January 31st, 2005, 07:34 PM

jeff, encoding should speed up some as the bus can be as high as 1066 MHz, which is about double your current bus...

this will surely make your haddrives the bottle neck, although your new mother board should have sata ports and not ide that means more money and a faster data path...

Glenn Chan · January 31st, 2005, 07:47 PM

Your hard drives won't bottleneck you unless it's a simple render, it which case it'll be real-time anyways. You may do some stuff where you need to do simple renders a lot... but usually not.

There's a few threads on what things affect performance...
the short story is that it depends mainly on your CPU, although some other things are worth doing to squeeze a little extra performance out of your system (not using PIO mode, getting RAM to run dual channel, eliminating other possible bottlenecks).

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=37831
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18784

There are also a bunch of threads on rendertest.veg, which allows you to bench your system. Check out the Sony forums for lots of threads on that.

Mark Kubat · February 1st, 2005, 04:30 AM

okay, referred back to this again and will give some suggestions there a shot...

begs the question: if cf24 etc. is using different pulldown schemes, could not Sony software team tweak the 2-3-3-2 pulldown scheme used for handling 24pA from DVX to now handle whatever the Sony FX1/Z1 is doing...?

gosh, wish I took that weekend course in C++...

Dennis Vogel · February 1st, 2005, 10:49 AM

Edward Troxel has a newsletter that contains a wealth of basic (and not so basic) Vegas features. it's a great place to start.

http://www.jetdv.com/vegas

Go to the Newsletter Archive section.

Good luck.

Dennis

Bob Safay · February 1st, 2005, 12:36 PM

Well, I am finally finished with my Oak Ridge Reservation DVD. It is 36 minutes in length and in three parts (menues). I must say, this was my first one done on Vegas 5 and I LOVE IT. Vegas is smooth, easy to use and the sound is beautiful. Thanks to all of you that helped to convince me that Vegas is the way to go. Bob

Bruce A. Christenson · February 1st, 2005, 01:48 PM

Has anyone done any quantitative price/performance analysis comparing 2 CPU workstation performance vs. 2 networked desktop platform performance for rendering large projects in Vegas?

Using the very latest CPUs, i.e. Opterons vs. Athlons or 2P Xeon (800 MT FSB) vs. similar HT P4s?

Some of the potential tradeoffs:

Xeons are usually more expensive than the Desktop parts
Workstation system requires more expensive chassis/power supply
2x Desktops means 2x chassis/hard disks/etc.
Network latency for 2x desktop config
Workstation CPUs/chipsets usually lag desktops in terms of high frequency FSB/memory support

January 30th, 2005, 10:25 PM	#391
Milt Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cass Lake MN Posts: 221	Smaller....but is there any qualitative difference? I am working with 1/2 shows so I figure smaller is probably good. So I think that must be what's going on when DVDA says that it's optimizing the file. Yes? __________________ Professional website - http://manykites.com Personal - http://mrdogsblog.com

January 31st, 2005, 10:45 AM	#394
Brian Bechard Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portland, Maine Posts: 94	Rendering Problem This has happened to me twice now. I render a project out to an AVI file...the project starts teh render process...and at 85% completion it stops for some reason. I end up getting about 5 min of rendered video in AVI form. Both of these were over 30 minutes of video with 2-3 simple filters and minimal text. I set the render quality to good on one and best on the other. What am I doing wrong? I've rendered several smaller projects to AVI files successfully. Am I trying to render too large of a project all at once? Should I "chop it up" into 2or3 segments? Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated!

January 31st, 2005, 11:23 AM	#396
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Here's Sony's official answer to that question: http://www.custcenter.com/cgi-bin/so...cHV0ZXJz&p_li= I was also under the impression you could install a "network rendering agent" or something like that all by itself rather than a full install of the main software. Vegas 5.0 and 5.0a were like that. Vegas 5.0b and newer just install the full product on the rendering machines. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

January 31st, 2005, 01:29 PM	#397
Jeff Toogood Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: St.Thomas, Ontario, CANADA Posts: 428	Thinking about upgrading my computer, is it worth it? I have a P4 2.4 GHZ w/533 FSB with 1 GB Ram. Thinking about upgrading to a P4 3.2 with hyperthreading with 1 GB Ram. How much of a performance increase will I see with Vegas rendering times? Will it be noticeable? __________________ Toogood Studios

January 31st, 2005, 04:02 PM	#398
Mark Kubat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 375	DSE: suggestions for "filmic" look in Sony Vegas? DSE, am hoping you can share your thoughts here (- or do we have to buy the HDV book??? :) We'd like to shoot HDV on FX1/Z1 and produce a downconverted SD DVD for NTSC so that the resulting product looks as "filmic" as possible in terms of cadence... We've tried various things like intermediary progressive 24p/1080 converts and then out to progressive mpeg-2 SD DVD files... sure, we get some interesting results but am wondering if you could suggest a workflow using FX1/Z1 and Vegas 5.0d... Objective - to shoot HDV and end up with SD DVD that has filmic cadence (we're using Magic Bullet for editors for Vegas to colour etc. so we've got that part down - just that some of our "motion" seems a little too "dream-like" - or "strobey" when we do our progressive intermediary file trick... J.A.G guy shot cf25 - but DVfilm guys recommend 50i/60i... it's kinda trickier to figure out now in Vegas because cf modes are not progressive files so I don't think Vegas will really allow 2-3 pulldown removal option since it's not DVX-type 24p file...? Moreover, the way Vegas deinterlaces seems to be a bit of a mystery... As you can see, we've racking our brains on this - hope you can shed some light for us... You really know Vegas (I know others do here too) and you really seem to know Sony HDV, so am really hoping you can help shed some light on this... any "recipes?" 50i?60i?cf30?24?25? convert to progressive 1080 25p? 24p? 30p? resulting progressive out to progressive SD DVD-compliant mpeg-2 or since we've already "deinterlaced" can it stay with a field order...??? Thanks in advance!

January 31st, 2005, 10:03 AM	#392
Keith Paisley Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 190	Thanks, I knew about the network rendering part but I didn't see the EULA listed anywhere on Sony's Vegas page at sonypictures.com. I was also under the impression you could install a "network rendering agent" or something like that all by itself rather than a full install of the main software. <<<-- Originally posted by Edward Troxel : The EULA is posted on Sony's site. The correct answer to this question is that you may install it on both a desktop and laptop AS LONG AS only one is in use at one time. However, with network rendering you may legally install it on THREE computers and use the second two for rendering purposes. -->>>

January 31st, 2005, 10:19 AM	#393
Vovka Chopine New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6	Thank you for reply. I agree that ads was to long, need about half shorter. On homework propobly bad download, that short was downloaded over 300 times in last 3 days and you first who tell me about this problem. Intresting info in past 4 days total download trafic over 10Gbt.

January 31st, 2005, 10:48 AM	#395
Brian Bechard Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portland, Maine Posts: 94	Also I'm getting ridiculously long render times for some of my projects...like 9+ hours for 60min of video w/color curves, sharpen and a little glow here and there. My CPU is a P4 1.8ghz, memory 512. Is this normal??

January 31st, 2005, 06:36 PM	#399
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	You can use a rule of thumb and divide the CPU's clock speed. This only works when comparing the same family CPU (i.e. it'll never work for Intel vs AMD, or Pentium versus Pentium-M) Your new system would be roughly a third faster. It should be noticeable, although it's not some huge leap in performance.

January 31st, 2005, 07:34 PM	#400
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	jeff, encoding should speed up some as the bus can be as high as 1066 MHz, which is about double your current bus... this will surely make your haddrives the bottle neck, although your new mother board should have sata ports and not ide that means more money and a faster data path...

January 31st, 2005, 07:47 PM	#401
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Your hard drives won't bottleneck you unless it's a simple render, it which case it'll be real-time anyways. You may do some stuff where you need to do simple renders a lot... but usually not. There's a few threads on what things affect performance... the short story is that it depends mainly on your CPU, although some other things are worth doing to squeeze a little extra performance out of your system (not using PIO mode, getting RAM to run dual channel, eliminating other possible bottlenecks). http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=37831 http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18784 There are also a bunch of threads on rendertest.veg, which allows you to bench your system. Check out the Sony forums for lots of threads on that.

February 1st, 2005, 04:30 AM	#402
Mark Kubat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 375	hints from Sony 24p whitepaper... okay, referred back to this again and will give some suggestions there a shot... begs the question: if cf24 etc. is using different pulldown schemes, could not Sony software team tweak the 2-3-3-2 pulldown scheme used for handling 24pA from DVX to now handle whatever the Sony FX1/Z1 is doing...? gosh, wish I took that weekend course in C++...

February 1st, 2005, 10:49 AM	#403
Dennis Vogel Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hillsborough, NC Posts: 409	Edward Troxel has a newsletter that contains a wealth of basic (and not so basic) Vegas features. it's a great place to start. http://www.jetdv.com/vegas Go to the Newsletter Archive section. Good luck. Dennis

February 1st, 2005, 12:36 PM	#404
Bob Safay Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,559	I finally finished Well, I am finally finished with my Oak Ridge Reservation DVD. It is 36 minutes in length and in three parts (menues). I must say, this was my first one done on Vegas 5 and I LOVE IT. Vegas is smooth, easy to use and the sound is beautiful. Thanks to all of you that helped to convince me that Vegas is the way to go. Bob

February 1st, 2005, 01:48 PM	#405
Bruce A. Christenson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Forest Grove, OR Posts: 122	2P workstation vs. 2x desktop price/performance analysis? Has anyone done any quantitative price/performance analysis comparing 2 CPU workstation performance vs. 2 networked desktop platform performance for rendering large projects in Vegas? Using the very latest CPUs, i.e. Opterons vs. Athlons or 2P Xeon (800 MT FSB) vs. similar HT P4s? Some of the potential tradeoffs: Xeons are usually more expensive than the Desktop parts Workstation system requires more expensive chassis/power supply 2x Desktops means 2x chassis/hard disks/etc. Network latency for 2x desktop config Workstation CPUs/chipsets usually lag desktops in terms of high frequency FSB/memory support