Premiere CS3 / CS4

Jim Snow · August 28th, 2009, 09:43 PM

I use Vegas Pro 8 and like it. I have never felt that it limited me in any way. After reading in the Premiere and Cineform forums about the endless misery that people have with Premiere, why do they use it? The usual answer is its "tight integration with other Adobe products." Sounds more like a cliche right out of the sales brochure than a real benefit. - - Or how about, "It does more than other NLE's." - I don't think so. I think it's time for a Premiere / Vegas throw down.

Cris Hendrix · August 29th, 2009, 01:58 AM

Eh, it just feels comfortable. I've tried Vegas and couldn't get into it and I don't experience any misery with Premiere Pro - I guess it depends on the workflow (though I'm still using 2.0, my favorite version of PP). I use it along with VoltaicHD and a MainConcept HD encoder plugin and it works great for my needs

Ian Stark · August 29th, 2009, 02:23 AM

Hmmm . . . I think the Vegas v Premier debate has been done to death. Both have strong points and both have flaws, and what works for one person might not work for another.

The integration between Adobe products is perhaps one of the few things I am envious of. I would love to seamlessly embed an After Effects timeline in Vegas, or vice versa, like nested projects. The integration isn't marketing hype, it exists. Whether it's completely robust or not I couldn't say, and I have read good and bad things about it - as I have read about every bit of software that has a keen following.

It is more likely that you will read in forums about people's troubles rather than their satisfaction with an app, so I don't think it's a good yardstick for measuring how good an application is. Got a problem? Post it on a forum. Hence the forums contain mostly complaints and troubles, giving the impression that the application is naff. I am sure there are thousands of silent users who are quite happy with what they're using.

I would guess a good quarter or more of posts on this Vegas forum are from people throwing their hands up in disgust at something or other that doesn't work right for them. Does that mean Vegas is a bad app?

Same, surely, goes for Premier, Avid, Final Cut etc etc.

Just my opinion, mind!

Harm Millaard · August 29th, 2009, 05:41 AM

I have been a long time user of Premiere. Ever since 5.1 there is not one version I did not use. I have tried Vegas, but it just wasn't my cup of tea. That's personal.

However - and I say this because I'm pretty active on the Premiere Pro forum, so I think I know where all the complaints come from - the bulk of the complaints and questions have a number of common factors:

1. Lack of understanding what editing is about. The abundance of complete nitwits is staggering. Due to the student pricing it seems that everybody thinks he can edit with Premiere Pro without any understanding of editing in general and Premiere Pro in particular.

2. Using all kinds of weird source material, completely unsuited for editing, whether that is ripped off YouTube, from still cameras or encoded with Xvid or from a phone and still, because of #1, expect Blu Ray quality.

3. A profound unwillingness to read the manual, consult the help file or watch tutorials.

4. Use cameras that are designed for watching the material, not editing.

5. Use computers that are setup in such a way and with so much corruption, that they never will work.

In general Vegas makes the impression of being more stable, but with a more limited feature set, OTOH forum discussions are often heavily influenced by persons suffering from one of the 5 symptoms mentioned above and are not representative of regular users.

I have not yet had a single crash with CS4 (4.10) so stability is a non-issue for me. This might have been different if:

1. My system specs were a P4 2.8 with 1 G RAM and a single 4800 RPM disk on a notebook

2. I had loaded all kind of codec packs, including K-Lite and FFDShow

3. Ripped AVI's off the internet with Xvid, DivX, etc.

4. Used a Flip cam or a phone for source material

5. Did not know the program or even the basics of editing

6. Refused to read the manual or consult the help file.

Personally, I think a discussion about Vegas versus Premiere Pro is senseless. It is what fits into your workflow and how you like the interface and what it does to your productivity. For the rest, the world keeps on turning...

Jeff Harper · August 29th, 2009, 06:03 AM

Premier has a few amazing features I would love to use, but I find Premier very alien to me. I have it, don't use it because it seems to me so user "unfriendly".

One of the most interesting features that Premier/Encore offers is the ability to create an interactive DVD menu for the web. Also Premier has the ability to render flv files.

Great program, just not my cup of tea.

Jim Snow · August 29th, 2009, 06:24 AM

My post was a bit tongue in cheek. I'm sure Premiere is a fine program but I would still like to see a Vegas versus Premiere throw down. It might dispel the Premiere elitism that you see in some quarters.

Ian Stark · August 29th, 2009, 06:41 AM

Hehehe . . . and replace it with Vegas elitism, if it's done in this forum? ;-)

Edward Troxel · August 29th, 2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cris Hendrix

Eh, it just feels comfortable. I've tried Vegas and couldn't get into it...

Cris, this is DEFINITELY a personal feeling. To me, Premiere feels awful and Vegas feels comfortable. So "comfort" is a matter of opinion. To me, CS4 is awkward. So is Edius. Just trying to do simple things like create crossfades or add an effect or ADJUST an effect seems totally awkward. Vegas is definitely more straightforward in that regard.

Danny Fye · August 29th, 2009, 03:31 PM

I think one can read thread after thread on complaints about both Premiere and Vegas.

There are systems that work real well with a particular NLE and ones that don't. I just built a new system and so far it works so well with Vegas that it is absolutely amazing! Old system worked pretty good but nothing close to the new one.

Most of the complaints about any NLE as was already pointed out is due to those who are either trying to use sub-par systems and/or do not know what they are doing.

Then there is the work-flow. The work flow with Vegas fits MY needs perfectly. The work flow with Premiere is a 100% mis-match for me. For my twin brother and we are not identical, it is the other way around. He can't scratch a dent in Vegas but can do just fine with Premiere. He also has a well built system that does not crash with Premiere.

So, it is not any NLE vs another NLE. It is which NLE is a best match for the particular user and of course having a well built system and knowing what one is doing.

There are plenty of tutorials and courses out there as well as the manual (Anyone heard of a thing called the manual? LOL!).

It takes time to become proficient on NLE.

Sorry, I don't think an NLE vs NLE is appropriate at all! I prefer discussions on helping users find which NLE best suits their needs. Also what equipment works best for a particular NLE and according to the needs of the user.

Some systems are over-kill for one user and just fine for another. Cheapest motherboard, ram, power supply and just plain cheep is not the best way to go with any NLE!

I will post later on about my results with my new system and what I have. Not to bragg about it but to hopefully help others who are looking for a good system at a reasonable price.

Thats my 1.5 cents. LOL!

Danny Fye
VidMus Video - Music Productions

Cris Hendrix · August 29th, 2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Troxel

Cris, this is DEFINITELY a personal feeling. To me, Premiere feels awful and Vegas feels comfortable. So "comfort" is a matter of opinion. To me, CS4 is awkward. So is Edius. Just trying to do simple things like create crossfades or add an effect or ADJUST an effect seems totally awkward. Vegas is definitely more straightforward in that regard.

I totally agree.. I'm not trying to knock Vegas in any way and to be honest probably didn't use it long enough to really learn all of the ins and outs, shortcuts, etc..

But more to the point I think we're at a place now where choosing a software is kind of a personality thing more than anything, especially when you're talking about leading software such as Vegas & Premiere. In truth if you know what you're doing you should be able to come out with something great with either program so it's all about making your trip there enjoyable as possible.. kinda like arguing about which top quality cameraman you'd rather work with, when it might just be the guy you'd rather have lunch with every day

Pete Bauer · August 30th, 2009, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Snow

I think it's time for a Premiere / Vegas throw down.

Some very good points already made why it ISN'T time for such a thing. Which NLE to use is entirely a personal preference based on personal needs, and can be personally satisfied by making use of the free trials offered. We don't need to try to turn it into a "platform war."

Chris Hurd · August 30th, 2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Snow

My post was a bit tongue in cheek.

This site is an *information* network. Please keep that in mind when posting here. We're looking for topics of value relating to the technical and creative aspects of digital media content creation... emphasis on topics of value, meaning, *information* that you can take away and apply in the real world. Thanks in advance,

August 29th, 2009, 02:23 AM	#3
Ian Stark Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,237	Hmmm . . . I think the Vegas v Premier debate has been done to death. Both have strong points and both have flaws, and what works for one person might not work for another. The integration between Adobe products is perhaps one of the few things I am envious of. I would love to seamlessly embed an After Effects timeline in Vegas, or vice versa, like nested projects. The integration isn't marketing hype, it exists. Whether it's completely robust or not I couldn't say, and I have read good and bad things about it - as I have read about every bit of software that has a keen following. It is more likely that you will read in forums about people's troubles rather than their satisfaction with an app, so I don't think it's a good yardstick for measuring how good an application is. Got a problem? Post it on a forum. Hence the forums contain mostly complaints and troubles, giving the impression that the application is naff. I am sure there are thousands of silent users who are quite happy with what they're using. I would guess a good quarter or more of posts on this Vegas forum are from people throwing their hands up in disgust at something or other that doesn't work right for them. Does that mean Vegas is a bad app? Same, surely, goes for Premier, Avid, Final Cut etc etc. Just my opinion, mind! __________________ www.vit-media.com www.classicmachinefilms.co.uk

August 29th, 2009, 06:41 AM	#7
Ian Stark Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,237	Hehehe . . . and replace it with Vegas elitism, if it's done in this forum? ;-) __________________ www.vit-media.com www.classicmachinefilms.co.uk

August 29th, 2009, 03:31 PM	#9
Danny Fye Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Independence MO. Posts: 318	I think one can read thread after thread on complaints about both Premiere and Vegas. There are systems that work real well with a particular NLE and ones that don't. I just built a new system and so far it works so well with Vegas that it is absolutely amazing! Old system worked pretty good but nothing close to the new one. Most of the complaints about any NLE as was already pointed out is due to those who are either trying to use sub-par systems and/or do not know what they are doing. Then there is the work-flow. The work flow with Vegas fits MY needs perfectly. The work flow with Premiere is a 100% mis-match for me. For my twin brother and we are not identical, it is the other way around. He can't scratch a dent in Vegas but can do just fine with Premiere. He also has a well built system that does not crash with Premiere. So, it is not any NLE vs another NLE. It is which NLE is a best match for the particular user and of course having a well built system and knowing what one is doing. There are plenty of tutorials and courses out there as well as the manual (Anyone heard of a thing called the manual? LOL!). It takes time to become proficient on NLE. Sorry, I don't think an NLE vs NLE is appropriate at all! I prefer discussions on helping users find which NLE best suits their needs. Also what equipment works best for a particular NLE and according to the needs of the user. Some systems are over-kill for one user and just fine for another. Cheapest motherboard, ram, power supply and just plain cheep is not the best way to go with any NLE! I will post later on about my results with my new system and what I have. Not to bragg about it but to hopefully help others who are looking for a good system at a reasonable price. Thats my 1.5 cents. LOL! Danny Fye VidMus Video - Music Productions __________________ www.dannyfye.com

August 28th, 2009, 09:43 PM	#1
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	Premiere CS3 / CS4 - Why? I use Vegas Pro 8 and like it. I have never felt that it limited me in any way. After reading in the Premiere and Cineform forums about the endless misery that people have with Premiere, why do they use it? The usual answer is its "tight integration with other Adobe products." Sounds more like a cliche right out of the sales brochure than a real benefit. - - Or how about, "It does more than other NLE's." - I don't think so. I think it's time for a Premiere / Vegas throw down. Last edited by Jim Snow; August 28th, 2009 at 10:14 PM.

August 29th, 2009, 01:58 AM	#2
Cris Hendrix Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 66	Eh, it just feels comfortable. I've tried Vegas and couldn't get into it and I don't experience any misery with Premiere Pro - I guess it depends on the workflow (though I'm still using 2.0, my favorite version of PP). I use it along with VoltaicHD and a MainConcept HD encoder plugin and it works great for my needs

August 29th, 2009, 05:41 AM	#4
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	I have been a long time user of Premiere. Ever since 5.1 there is not one version I did not use. I have tried Vegas, but it just wasn't my cup of tea. That's personal. However - and I say this because I'm pretty active on the Premiere Pro forum, so I think I know where all the complaints come from - the bulk of the complaints and questions have a number of common factors: 1. Lack of understanding what editing is about. The abundance of complete nitwits is staggering. Due to the student pricing it seems that everybody thinks he can edit with Premiere Pro without any understanding of editing in general and Premiere Pro in particular. 2. Using all kinds of weird source material, completely unsuited for editing, whether that is ripped off YouTube, from still cameras or encoded with Xvid or from a phone and still, because of #1, expect Blu Ray quality. 3. A profound unwillingness to read the manual, consult the help file or watch tutorials. 4. Use cameras that are designed for watching the material, not editing. 5. Use computers that are setup in such a way and with so much corruption, that they never will work. In general Vegas makes the impression of being more stable, but with a more limited feature set, OTOH forum discussions are often heavily influenced by persons suffering from one of the 5 symptoms mentioned above and are not representative of regular users. I have not yet had a single crash with CS4 (4.10) so stability is a non-issue for me. This might have been different if: 1. My system specs were a P4 2.8 with 1 G RAM and a single 4800 RPM disk on a notebook 2. I had loaded all kind of codec packs, including K-Lite and FFDShow 3. Ripped AVI's off the internet with Xvid, DivX, etc. 4. Used a Flip cam or a phone for source material 5. Did not know the program or even the basics of editing 6. Refused to read the manual or consult the help file. Personally, I think a discussion about Vegas versus Premiere Pro is senseless. It is what fits into your workflow and how you like the interface and what it does to your productivity. For the rest, the world keeps on turning...

August 29th, 2009, 06:03 AM	#5
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Premier has a few amazing features I would love to use, but I find Premier very alien to me. I have it, don't use it because it seems to me so user "unfriendly". One of the most interesting features that Premier/Encore offers is the ability to create an interactive DVD menu for the web. Also Premier has the ability to render flv files. Great program, just not my cup of tea.

August 29th, 2009, 06:24 AM	#6
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	My post was a bit tongue in cheek. I'm sure Premiere is a fine program but I would still like to see a Vegas versus Premiere throw down. It might dispel the Premiere elitism that you see in some quarters.