A recent piece I finished at DVinfo.net

Glen Elliott · September 16th, 2004, 11:41 PM

This peice is for the highlight vignette on a wedding I'm finishing up. Shot with a PD-170 and VX2100. (a few XL-1s and TRV33 shots as well *see if you can spot them)

Oddly, two shots have a flickering towards the top of the frame. The only thing in comon between the two shots is the use of the "glow" filter. Maybe Edward or another Vegas Guru can explain why this is happening.

Anyway- here's the clip....

http://home.comcast.net/~g.elliott3/...t_Vignette.wmv

Graham Bernard · September 17th, 2004, 12:18 AM

Glen - ppphhoarrgghh .. . another superb piece . .. really excellent .. .

OK, "seems" you've an interlace flicker-y type fight going on.

Q1: Do you observe this "prior" to applying the FX? If so it aint the FX.

Q2: Do you use this same FX somewhere else, where you aren't getting this flicker?

I notice you are using the Pan and Rotate option either in Track Motion or Pan/Crop - yes? If yes then sometimes where there are some really defined horiz lines - I think I saw lines of bricks - I can get flicker. PLUS you've slowed the whole thing down, so I'm not really "seeing" the actual effect of flicker at the correct frame rate - yes? It would be real neat to actually see the flicker at normal rate - yes? In any event I'd try a combination of Forced Resampling and or Reduce Interlace Flicker [ RIF ] - you can find these in the Event Properties - but definitely RIF. I've had similar and RIF has got it. Think about what the cammie and then the s/w has to do with motion and horiz lines and edge aberrations and then rotation of that same view AND then you add an FX .. I guess something is going to give . . . However, and this might also be the issue here, is that the FX isn't being applied "evenly" throughout the rotate - yeah? Then maybe you might want to apply the FX first - render this - then do the rotate .. see what I'm driving at? It was your comment about applying the FX and your obvious advanced understanding of video that is making me think that you might have considered RIF, applied it, and are now examining/researching other lines of investigation .. . anyways, it want do any harm to give it a go . .. Apply FX then rotate OR Rotate then apply FX OR slomo and the FX OR any combination of the three in various steps . ..

Interesting . ..

Grazie

Glen Elliott · September 17th, 2004, 12:24 AM

I noticed flickering in two maybe 3 shots. They were shots I had used the "glow" filter on. I've seen "glow" do this before but usually on the very edge of the image which is well in overscan zone. However, since I applied the 1:85:1 Academy crop on it the "edge" is well WITHIN overscan. I'll try and go back and give the "RIF" a shot....if not I'll do as you suggested and render then rotate...and/or apply the 1:85:1 crop.

Graham Bernard · September 17th, 2004, 12:37 AM

I've never used this "1:85:1 Academy crop " . . I'm presuming it is a method of cropping for ... er .. . whatever you need - yeah? I just stick to plain ole 4:3 . . . But yes, maybe this is introducing another "vector" variable we might need to consider. I guess anything that will adjust the native film may have an effect. Maybe you might need to "finish" the movie and THEN do this ratio crop? Maybe the FX needs some "waste" to do its thing . . .I really don't know - this might be worth a try too! If you DO dig out this as being something that is exhibiting itself only in this scenario then maybe you may have indeed discovered an invertebrate/insect - BUG!

Peter Jefferson · September 17th, 2004, 02:53 AM

Very Impressive mate :)

Bob Schneider · September 17th, 2004, 10:32 PM

Nice work Glen.

I am curious about the sound track. Where is it from?

Bob

Adi Head · September 18th, 2004, 04:40 AM

could the flickering at the top of the frame have anything to do with the xl-1s? i read somewhere about a problem with xl-1s regarding something appearing at the top of the frame. i'm probably way off here, but when you mentioned "xl-1s" and "top of frame" that was the first thing that came to mind.

Lars Siden · September 18th, 2004, 07:37 AM

Hi Glen,

Excellent! The video made some parts of my body stand straight up ( the hair, the hair :-)

The end is really 100% good!

Great work! Good music - recognize it but can't place it...

// Lazze \\

Glen Elliott · September 18th, 2004, 10:28 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Adi Head : could the flickering at the top of the frame have anything to do with the xl-1s? i read somewhere about a problem with xl-1s regarding something appearing at the top of the frame. i'm probably way off here, but when you mentioned "xl-1s" and "top of frame" that was the first thing that came to mind. -->>>

Well ironicly enough- the one shot (out of the 2) that exhibit this is, indeed, an XL-1S shot. It's the one right after the bride slides the ring on and looks up at the groom. You might have been on to something, however, the other shot that exhibits this is from my PD-170. The linking factor is the use of the "glow" filter. I've seen this happen before...something about that effect causes it. Maybe Edward can chime in if he's experienced it or know's what the cause is.

Glen Elliott · September 18th, 2004, 10:29 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Schneider : Nice work Glen.

I am curious about the sound track. Where is it from?

Bob -->>>

"Inama Nushif"- Children of Dune.

Edward Troxel · September 18th, 2004, 01:50 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : I've seen this happen before...something about that effect causes it. Maybe Edward can chime in if he's experienced it or know's what the cause is. -->>>

I haven't specifically noticed this but can't rule anything out as a possibility. I know my XL-1 (no s) has 4 black pixels on both the left and right but have not noticed anything on the top or bottom. I'll have to pay closer attention when I next use the glow filter. Although I tend to use Zenote's instead.

Kim Kinser · September 19th, 2004, 02:54 PM

That was really very nice.

Are the camera moves handheld?

Glen Elliott · September 19th, 2004, 09:02 PM

Yes all handheld.

Hey Kim me and two friends are going to the GPVA (Greater Philadelphia Videographer's Association) meeting on tuesday in Philly. Let me know if you want to attend.

Bob Schneider · September 22nd, 2004, 09:01 PM

Hi Glen,

Thanks for the response.

If I may elaborate on the sound track Question:

I am not familiar with the artist. Is this a well known artist? If so did you have to buy the rights to the work to use it? I am just curious how this works when doing wedding work. Or perhaps there are royalty free tracks of this nature available. Any insight would be helpful.

Thanks again,
Bob

Steven Andrus · September 23rd, 2004, 03:56 AM

How did you do the b&w mixed with color? Ive done simpler things using the color corrector, but nothing like this... ...you did this in vegas?

September 16th, 2004, 11:41 PM	#1
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	A recent peice I finished This peice is for the highlight vignette on a wedding I'm finishing up. Shot with a PD-170 and VX2100. (a few XL-1s and TRV33 shots as well *see if you can spot them) Oddly, two shots have a flickering towards the top of the frame. The only thing in comon between the two shots is the use of the "glow" filter. Maybe Edward or another Vegas Guru can explain why this is happening. Anyway- here's the clip.... http://home.comcast.net/~g.elliott3/...t_Vignette.wmv

September 18th, 2004, 01:50 PM	#11
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : I've seen this happen before...something about that effect causes it. Maybe Edward can chime in if he's experienced it or know's what the cause is. -->>> I haven't specifically noticed this but can't rule anything out as a possibility. I know my XL-1 (no s) has 4 black pixels on both the left and right but have not noticed anything on the top or bottom. I'll have to pay closer attention when I next use the glow filter. Although I tend to use Zenote's instead. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

September 23rd, 2004, 03:56 AM	#15
Steven Andrus Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 48	How did you do the b&w mixed with color? Ive done simpler things using the color corrector, but nothing like this... ...you did this in vegas? __________________ www.supafraud.com

September 17th, 2004, 12:18 AM	#2
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Glen - ppphhoarrgghh .. . another superb piece . .. really excellent .. . OK, "seems" you've an interlace flicker-y type fight going on. Q1: Do you observe this "prior" to applying the FX? If so it aint the FX. Q2: Do you use this same FX somewhere else, where you aren't getting this flicker? I notice you are using the Pan and Rotate option either in Track Motion or Pan/Crop - yes? If yes then sometimes where there are some really defined horiz lines - I think I saw lines of bricks - I can get flicker. PLUS you've slowed the whole thing down, so I'm not really "seeing" the actual effect of flicker at the correct frame rate - yes? It would be real neat to actually see the flicker at normal rate - yes? In any event I'd try a combination of Forced Resampling and or Reduce Interlace Flicker [ RIF ] - you can find these in the Event Properties - but definitely RIF. I've had similar and RIF has got it. Think about what the cammie and then the s/w has to do with motion and horiz lines and edge aberrations and then rotation of that same view AND then you add an FX .. I guess something is going to give . . . However, and this might also be the issue here, is that the FX isn't being applied "evenly" throughout the rotate - yeah? Then maybe you might want to apply the FX first - render this - then do the rotate .. see what I'm driving at? It was your comment about applying the FX and your obvious advanced understanding of video that is making me think that you might have considered RIF, applied it, and are now examining/researching other lines of investigation .. . anyways, it want do any harm to give it a go . .. Apply FX then rotate OR Rotate then apply FX OR slomo and the FX OR any combination of the three in various steps . .. Interesting . .. Grazie

September 17th, 2004, 12:24 AM	#3
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	I noticed flickering in two maybe 3 shots. They were shots I had used the "glow" filter on. I've seen "glow" do this before but usually on the very edge of the image which is well in overscan zone. However, since I applied the 1:85:1 Academy crop on it the "edge" is well WITHIN overscan. I'll try and go back and give the "RIF" a shot....if not I'll do as you suggested and render then rotate...and/or apply the 1:85:1 crop.

September 17th, 2004, 12:37 AM	#4
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	I've never used this "1:85:1 Academy crop " . . I'm presuming it is a method of cropping for ... er .. . whatever you need - yeah? I just stick to plain ole 4:3 . . . But yes, maybe this is introducing another "vector" variable we might need to consider. I guess anything that will adjust the native film may have an effect. Maybe you might need to "finish" the movie and THEN do this ratio crop? Maybe the FX needs some "waste" to do its thing . . .I really don't know - this might be worth a try too! If you DO dig out this as being something that is exhibiting itself only in this scenario then maybe you may have indeed discovered an invertebrate/insect - BUG!

September 17th, 2004, 02:53 AM	#5
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Very Impressive mate :)

September 17th, 2004, 10:32 PM	#6
Bob Schneider Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Chicago area Posts: 98	Nice work Glen. I am curious about the sound track. Where is it from? Bob

September 18th, 2004, 04:40 AM	#7
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	could the flickering at the top of the frame have anything to do with the xl-1s? i read somewhere about a problem with xl-1s regarding something appearing at the top of the frame. i'm probably way off here, but when you mentioned "xl-1s" and "top of frame" that was the first thing that came to mind.

September 18th, 2004, 07:37 AM	#8
Lars Siden Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden, Stockholm Posts: 469	Hi Glen, Excellent! The video made some parts of my body stand straight up ( the hair, the hair :-) The end is really 100% good! Great work! Good music - recognize it but can't place it... // Lazze \\

September 18th, 2004, 10:28 AM	#9
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	<<<-- Originally posted by Adi Head : could the flickering at the top of the frame have anything to do with the xl-1s? i read somewhere about a problem with xl-1s regarding something appearing at the top of the frame. i'm probably way off here, but when you mentioned "xl-1s" and "top of frame" that was the first thing that came to mind. -->>> Well ironicly enough- the one shot (out of the 2) that exhibit this is, indeed, an XL-1S shot. It's the one right after the bride slides the ring on and looks up at the groom. You might have been on to something, however, the other shot that exhibits this is from my PD-170. The linking factor is the use of the "glow" filter. I've seen this happen before...something about that effect causes it. Maybe Edward can chime in if he's experienced it or know's what the cause is.

September 18th, 2004, 10:29 AM	#10
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Schneider : Nice work Glen. I am curious about the sound track. Where is it from? Bob -->>> "Inama Nushif"- Children of Dune.

September 19th, 2004, 02:54 PM	#12
Kim Kinser Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Voorhees, NJ Posts: 82	That was really very nice. Are the camera moves handheld?

September 19th, 2004, 09:02 PM	#13
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Yes all handheld. Hey Kim me and two friends are going to the GPVA (Greater Philadelphia Videographer's Association) meeting on tuesday in Philly. Let me know if you want to attend.

September 22nd, 2004, 09:01 PM	#14
Bob Schneider Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Chicago area Posts: 98	Hi Glen, Thanks for the response. If I may elaborate on the sound track Question: I am not familiar with the artist. Is this a well known artist? If so did you have to buy the rights to the work to use it? I am just curious how this works when doing wedding work. Or perhaps there are royalty free tracks of this nature available. Any insight would be helpful. Thanks again, Bob