quality of vegas preview better than original avi file at DVinfo.net

Adi Head · August 19th, 2004, 01:54 PM

i have noticed that the video quality shown in the VEGAS preview window (when set to BEST), is better than the quality of the .avi file when played in windows media player or winamp.

i might be mistaken, but isn't the quality of the video shown in the preview window supposed to be even WORSE than the actual .avi file?

the pitcure quality in the VEGAS preview window is sharper and it's colors are nicer compared to the picture quality of the very same shot in one of the above media players.

why is this?

thanks

Glen Elliott · August 19th, 2004, 01:59 PM

When you play a DV AVI in media player it automatically halves the res. So your only viewing it at 360x240.

Adi Head · August 19th, 2004, 02:04 PM

i see.
so how do i view an .avi file without loss of quality?

Imran Zaidi · August 19th, 2004, 02:24 PM

Glen, where did you get this info about Windows Media Player halving resolution on playback? I've never seen it do this, and I'm wondering if you may have a preference setting doing something strange.

Adi, can you provide more info? Are you rendering the footage and then seeing that it is at lower quality? Or are you opening the very same file and it seems to look worse? Is your Vegas preview window sized smaller than the actual size of the video, where the othey way it may be sized larger when you view it, resulting in a less clear picture?

I don't see why this would be so.

Glen Elliott · August 19th, 2004, 04:44 PM

I posted this question on here a while ago and that is the response I got. Try it yourself Imran, open up a DV AVI in Windows Media player and set the resolution to "100%"....you'll see automatically that it's only playing in 1/2 res.

Adi probably has his media player set up like everyone does, and has his display resolution set to "200%" which gives the DV AVI clip the softness he's seeing.

Rob Lohman · August 20th, 2004, 03:18 AM

Imran: it IS the default in MOST installations. Somehow not on all.
This both happens with the OLD Mediaplayer and with the new
Windows Media Player (WMP).

For the latter you can change the setting here (after starting WMP):

Tools -> Options -> Performance -> Advanced
Set the first slider (Digital Video) all the way to the right (Large)
OK all the windows.

That should fix it. Just to be safe re-start WMP.

Adi Head · August 20th, 2004, 03:26 AM

first of all to answer imran:
both rendered avi files and original captured footage, when played in media player look bad.
i opened mediaplayer window and vegas preview window to the same size in order to make a fair comparison.

regarding the mediaplayer, i'm not sure i understand. are you guys saying that it CAN infact play an .avi file without compinsating resolution?

adi

Rob Lohman · August 20th, 2004, 03:55 AM

Adi: yes, if you follow my instructions above. It's "just" a default
that WMP uses to play back DV at 50% resolution (QuickTime on
Windows does sorta the same, only even worse).

Glen Elliott · August 20th, 2004, 07:55 AM

Thanks Rob. I never knew you could change that- apparently I haven't snooped around in the WMP preferences enough.

Adi Head · August 20th, 2004, 08:35 AM

hi rob. i did as you said and set "digital video" to large (slider all the way to the right). the image quality did improve. when testing an .avi file of color bars, both vegas preview window and mediaplayer window seem the same. but with certain clips, i still have to admit that the image produced in the vegas preview window seems finer.
for example: i have a shot of a table. the surface of the table is lit by sunlight in such a way that the top of the table is highly contrasted against the shadowy floor beneath it. the table edge, therefore, is a fine line with heavy contrast on either side. in order to compare the image produced by mediaplayer to that made in vegas preview i set them to the same size and place them on the same screen side by side.
rather clearly, the edge of the table in the vegas preview window is sharper. the edge of the table in the media player is a bit fuzzy in comparison and the contrast between light and shadow is not as fine.

so although i made the adjustment in mediaplayer, it is still inferior in quality to the vegas preview window.

by the way, is the image quality of a clip when played in vegas preview window compinsated in any way, when set to Best (auto)?

adi

Glen Elliott · August 20th, 2004, 08:57 AM

Windows Media Player uses your video card's overlay to display video. I wouldn't be suprised if you saw a difference in color too.

Adi Head · August 20th, 2004, 09:09 AM

ok. i see. so, in my case, is playing an .avi file on the vegas platform the way to view it at maximum image quallity? or is there a player out there known for it's high video quality?

Imran Zaidi · August 20th, 2004, 09:43 AM

Adi, the best thing is to just have a broadcast monitor that you can view your footage on. The trouble with computer-viewing of video is that it will look a little different on every computer you use to view your footage. Granted this can be the same for TVs and monitors, but if you have a properly calibrated broadcast monitor (or a very good t.v. may be close enough depending on your needs), that's about as good as it's going to get.

You don't ever really want to use a computer .avi player to gauge the quality of your video - eyeballing it like that will never be consistent. Figure out what your target will be for your final video, and then adjust it for that medium.

Also, Glen/Rob - very strange - in my own 3 computers I own and some of the others I administer, all of them seemed to already be set by default at max resolution. Perhaps it stems from a very specific combination of upgrades. Write it off as a Microsoftism I guess.

Edward Troxel · August 20th, 2004, 10:00 AM

Another difference could be related to Vegas using the Sony codec and Media Player using the Microsoft codec.

Adi Head · August 20th, 2004, 10:10 AM

ok. thanks.
maybe you guys can help me on this next question, since it DOES have to do with what imran said about what my final target will be and adjusting for that medium:

i am editing a video piece which will finally be authored and burned to dvd and projected on a wall in an obscured room, using a barko (that's what they call video projectors here, i'm not sure wheter or not the term is universal).

since i won't be able to test the actual devices and media until 3 days before the screening and i don't have an external monitor, what tips could you give me on picture adjustment? if there are any.

thanks! adi.

August 19th, 2004, 01:54 PM	#1
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	quality of vegas preview better than original avi file i have noticed that the video quality shown in the VEGAS preview window (when set to BEST), is better than the quality of the .avi file when played in windows media player or winamp. i might be mistaken, but isn't the quality of the video shown in the preview window supposed to be even WORSE than the actual .avi file? the pitcure quality in the VEGAS preview window is sharper and it's colors are nicer compared to the picture quality of the very same shot in one of the above media players. why is this? thanks

August 20th, 2004, 03:18 AM	#6
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Imran: it IS the default in MOST installations. Somehow not on all. This both happens with the OLD Mediaplayer and with the new Windows Media Player (WMP). For the latter you can change the setting here (after starting WMP): Tools -> Options -> Performance -> Advanced Set the first slider (Digital Video) all the way to the right (Large) OK all the windows. That should fix it. Just to be safe re-start WMP. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 20th, 2004, 03:55 AM	#8
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Adi: yes, if you follow my instructions above. It's "just" a default that WMP uses to play back DV at 50% resolution (QuickTime on Windows does sorta the same, only even worse). __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 20th, 2004, 10:00 AM	#14
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Another difference could be related to Vegas using the Sony codec and Media Player using the Microsoft codec. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

August 19th, 2004, 01:59 PM	#2
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	When you play a DV AVI in media player it automatically halves the res. So your only viewing it at 360x240.

August 19th, 2004, 02:04 PM	#3
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	i see. so how do i view an .avi file without loss of quality?

August 19th, 2004, 02:24 PM	#4
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Glen, where did you get this info about Windows Media Player halving resolution on playback? I've never seen it do this, and I'm wondering if you may have a preference setting doing something strange. Adi, can you provide more info? Are you rendering the footage and then seeing that it is at lower quality? Or are you opening the very same file and it seems to look worse? Is your Vegas preview window sized smaller than the actual size of the video, where the othey way it may be sized larger when you view it, resulting in a less clear picture? I don't see why this would be so.

August 19th, 2004, 04:44 PM	#5
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	I posted this question on here a while ago and that is the response I got. Try it yourself Imran, open up a DV AVI in Windows Media player and set the resolution to "100%"....you'll see automatically that it's only playing in 1/2 res. Adi probably has his media player set up like everyone does, and has his display resolution set to "200%" which gives the DV AVI clip the softness he's seeing.

August 20th, 2004, 03:26 AM	#7
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	first of all to answer imran: both rendered avi files and original captured footage, when played in media player look bad. i opened mediaplayer window and vegas preview window to the same size in order to make a fair comparison. regarding the mediaplayer, i'm not sure i understand. are you guys saying that it CAN infact play an .avi file without compinsating resolution? adi

August 20th, 2004, 07:55 AM	#9
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Thanks Rob. I never knew you could change that- apparently I haven't snooped around in the WMP preferences enough.

August 20th, 2004, 08:35 AM	#10
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	hi rob. i did as you said and set "digital video" to large (slider all the way to the right). the image quality did improve. when testing an .avi file of color bars, both vegas preview window and mediaplayer window seem the same. but with certain clips, i still have to admit that the image produced in the vegas preview window seems finer. for example: i have a shot of a table. the surface of the table is lit by sunlight in such a way that the top of the table is highly contrasted against the shadowy floor beneath it. the table edge, therefore, is a fine line with heavy contrast on either side. in order to compare the image produced by mediaplayer to that made in vegas preview i set them to the same size and place them on the same screen side by side. rather clearly, the edge of the table in the vegas preview window is sharper. the edge of the table in the media player is a bit fuzzy in comparison and the contrast between light and shadow is not as fine. so although i made the adjustment in mediaplayer, it is still inferior in quality to the vegas preview window. by the way, is the image quality of a clip when played in vegas preview window compinsated in any way, when set to Best (auto)? adi

August 20th, 2004, 08:57 AM	#11
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Windows Media Player uses your video card's overlay to display video. I wouldn't be suprised if you saw a difference in color too.

August 20th, 2004, 09:09 AM	#12
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	ok. i see. so, in my case, is playing an .avi file on the vegas platform the way to view it at maximum image quallity? or is there a player out there known for it's high video quality?

August 20th, 2004, 09:43 AM	#13
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Adi, the best thing is to just have a broadcast monitor that you can view your footage on. The trouble with computer-viewing of video is that it will look a little different on every computer you use to view your footage. Granted this can be the same for TVs and monitors, but if you have a properly calibrated broadcast monitor (or a very good t.v. may be close enough depending on your needs), that's about as good as it's going to get. You don't ever really want to use a computer .avi player to gauge the quality of your video - eyeballing it like that will never be consistent. Figure out what your target will be for your final video, and then adjust it for that medium. Also, Glen/Rob - very strange - in my own 3 computers I own and some of the others I administer, all of them seemed to already be set by default at max resolution. Perhaps it stems from a very specific combination of upgrades. Write it off as a Microsoftism I guess.

August 20th, 2004, 10:10 AM	#15
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	ok. thanks. maybe you guys can help me on this next question, since it DOES have to do with what imran said about what my final target will be and adjusting for that medium: i am editing a video piece which will finally be authored and burned to dvd and projected on a wall in an obscured room, using a barko (that's what they call video projectors here, i'm not sure wheter or not the term is universal). since i won't be able to test the actual devices and media until 3 days before the screening and i don't have an external monitor, what tips could you give me on picture adjustment? if there are any. thanks! adi.