Here's a new one: how do I make my video look like crappier video? at DVinfo.net

Josh Bass · July 19th, 2004, 04:33 AM

Yes, gentlemen (and women), you heard right: I have footage recorded from my XL1s in 60i (waiting for some clever chap to chime in about how it should already look crappy enough, compared to his DVX100 or something), and it's supposed to look like it came off a VHS camcorder from whenever they made VHS camcorders.

What kind of FX/plugins from Vegas 4 could I use, and how could I use them, to degrade the image enough to get that look? Seems like it would be more than just adding a blur to make it look softer, so open to suggestions.

Richard Alvarez · July 19th, 2004, 05:30 AM

VHS used 250 lines of resolution. SO, you could try importing the footage at an off-line res. Like 15:1 maybe (Don't know if Vegas does this) Or maybe just a single field? (Sorry, I cut on Avid, not Vegas, so I wouldn't know how to tell you.) VHS images weren't "blurry" they were just a lower res than DV. I know, I still have two vhs camcorders.

Patrick King · July 19th, 2004, 06:45 AM

Josh,

You'll have to register for access (if you haven't you definately want to; Douglas Spotted Eagle and other real pros post Vegas tips and tools here).

Go to Sundance Media Group's Vegas area:

http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/help/kb/kb_files.asp?s=1

Seems I recall a script in there that adds the type effect you are talking about. Sorry I don't have time to find it for you right now, but you'll want to poke around here anyway.

If it isn't in there, it must be the Magic Bullets tool that comes free with Vegas5. It has several 'filmic' effects, but is slooooow to render.

Cosmin Rotaru · July 19th, 2004, 08:35 AM

I would record from the camcorder to VHS and than capture that :)

Or export to some lower resolution (not with DV codec, you can't. Some other codec).
I'd blur the reds...

Glenn Chan · July 19th, 2004, 12:17 PM

I would probably try what Cosmin suggested and actually record onto VHS. One thing you get is all the messed up colors (VHS always looks garish to me).

2- You could also add excessive edge sharpening by using the unsharp mask filter in Vegas.

3- If you want to be cheesy, add one of those date/time burn-ins that VHS camcorders can do. I don't know how to do this... your XL1 could probably do it. I actually have one lying close to me but I'm too lazy to test it out.

Josh Bass · July 19th, 2004, 12:40 PM

Alright, I'll try some of this stuff and get back to you. I don't really have a way to capture from anything other than my camera via firewire.

Jean-Philippe Archibald · July 19th, 2004, 12:48 PM

Put in on a VHS, and capture it back through firewire by connecting a VHS vcr to your camera.

Josh Bass · July 19th, 2004, 01:05 PM

You can do that? Or, more precisely, I can do that? Don't I need an extra gadget or something?

cheesy, of course!

Can you add a day/time burn in post, somehow? I guess the guys who made this movie are supposed to have cut it in camera, so there'd be breaks in the day/time code.

Jean-Philippe Archibald · July 19th, 2004, 01:07 PM

Sure you can, or in the case your camcorder doesn't support real time analog to digital convertion, you can simply record the analog signal on a miniDV tape and then capture this tape via firewire in the traditionnal way.

Josh Bass · July 19th, 2004, 01:59 PM

Huh. I swear I tried that once, converting VHS back to miniDV, and couldn't get anything to work, since I was missing some piece of gadgetry.

Edward Troxel · July 19th, 2004, 02:16 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Josh Bass : Huh. I swear I tried that once, converting VHS back to miniDV, and couldn't get anything to work, since I was missing some piece of gadgetry. -->>>

It is dependent on the camera. Some cameras will allow this - other's will not. You need to check out the abilities of your camera to see if it can perform this task.

If your camera CAN do it, make sure you turn OFF "Enable Device Control" to capture the VHS footage. Otherwise, it will try to capture whatever is on a tape in the camera.

Josh Bass · July 19th, 2004, 02:41 PM

Interesting. I'll try it again. It's Canon XL1s, by the way. I seem to remember it requiring an additional device, when I looked at the manual on how to do that, but I'll try again.

Edward Troxel · July 19th, 2004, 02:55 PM

I have the XL-1 - it does NOT do the transfer FROM analog (other way is just fine). I believe the XL-1s requires two steps:

1) Record FROM the VHS into the XL-1s onto MiniDV.
2) Capture that MiniDV

I don't believe it allows full pass-through.

Josh Bass · July 19th, 2004, 03:06 PM

1) is the step I'm stuck on: record from VHS back to miniDV. I tried simply hooking RCA cables from the VCR back to the cam, but I didn't see any indication that it was working. Can't think of any other way to do it, unless you have a VCR with an S-Video connector (I don't).

Edward Troxel · July 19th, 2004, 03:26 PM

I believe it should work with the RCA plugs. What does the manual say?

You may want to do a search on the XL-1 forum on this topic. I know it's been discussed there.

July 19th, 2004, 04:33 AM	#1
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Here's a new one: how do I make my video look like crappier video? Yes, gentlemen (and women), you heard right: I have footage recorded from my XL1s in 60i (waiting for some clever chap to chime in about how it should already look crappy enough, compared to his DVX100 or something), and it's supposed to look like it came off a VHS camcorder from whenever they made VHS camcorders. What kind of FX/plugins from Vegas 4 could I use, and how could I use them, to degrade the image enough to get that look? Seems like it would be more than just adding a blur to make it look softer, so open to suggestions. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

July 19th, 2004, 08:35 AM	#4
Cosmin Rotaru Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Romania, Timisoara Posts: 453	I would record from the camcorder to VHS and than capture that :) Or export to some lower resolution (not with DV codec, you can't. Some other codec). I'd blur the reds... __________________ Cosmin Rotaru

July 19th, 2004, 12:40 PM	#6
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Alright, I'll try some of this stuff and get back to you. I don't really have a way to capture from anything other than my camera via firewire. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

July 19th, 2004, 12:48 PM	#7
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	Put in on a VHS, and capture it back through firewire by connecting a VHS vcr to your camera. __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

July 19th, 2004, 01:05 PM	#8
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	You can do that? Or, more precisely, I can do that? Don't I need an extra gadget or something? cheesy, of course! Can you add a day/time burn in post, somehow? I guess the guys who made this movie are supposed to have cut it in camera, so there'd be breaks in the day/time code. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

July 19th, 2004, 05:30 AM	#2
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	VHS used 250 lines of resolution. SO, you could try importing the footage at an off-line res. Like 15:1 maybe (Don't know if Vegas does this) Or maybe just a single field? (Sorry, I cut on Avid, not Vegas, so I wouldn't know how to tell you.) VHS images weren't "blurry" they were just a lower res than DV. I know, I still have two vhs camcorders.

July 19th, 2004, 06:45 AM	#3
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	Josh, You'll have to register for access (if you haven't you definately want to; Douglas Spotted Eagle and other real pros post Vegas tips and tools here). Go to Sundance Media Group's Vegas area: http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/help/kb/kb_files.asp?s=1 Seems I recall a script in there that adds the type effect you are talking about. Sorry I don't have time to find it for you right now, but you'll want to poke around here anyway. If it isn't in there, it must be the Magic Bullets tool that comes free with Vegas5. It has several 'filmic' effects, but is slooooow to render.

July 19th, 2004, 12:17 PM	#5
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	I would probably try what Cosmin suggested and actually record onto VHS. One thing you get is all the messed up colors (VHS always looks garish to me). 2- You could also add excessive edge sharpening by using the unsharp mask filter in Vegas. 3- If you want to be cheesy, add one of those date/time burn-ins that VHS camcorders can do. I don't know how to do this... your XL1 could probably do it. I actually have one lying close to me but I'm too lazy to test it out.

July 19th, 2004, 01:07 PM	#9
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	Sure you can, or in the case your camcorder doesn't support real time analog to digital convertion, you can simply record the analog signal on a miniDV tape and then capture this tape via firewire in the traditionnal way. __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

July 19th, 2004, 01:59 PM	#10
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Huh. I swear I tried that once, converting VHS back to miniDV, and couldn't get anything to work, since I was missing some piece of gadgetry. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

July 19th, 2004, 02:16 PM	#11
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	<<<-- Originally posted by Josh Bass : Huh. I swear I tried that once, converting VHS back to miniDV, and couldn't get anything to work, since I was missing some piece of gadgetry. -->>> It is dependent on the camera. Some cameras will allow this - other's will not. You need to check out the abilities of your camera to see if it can perform this task. If your camera CAN do it, make sure you turn OFF "Enable Device Control" to capture the VHS footage. Otherwise, it will try to capture whatever is on a tape in the camera.

July 19th, 2004, 02:41 PM	#12
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Interesting. I'll try it again. It's Canon XL1s, by the way. I seem to remember it requiring an additional device, when I looked at the manual on how to do that, but I'll try again. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

July 19th, 2004, 02:55 PM	#13
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I have the XL-1 - it does NOT do the transfer FROM analog (other way is just fine). I believe the XL-1s requires two steps: 1) Record FROM the VHS into the XL-1s onto MiniDV. 2) Capture that MiniDV I don't believe it allows full pass-through.

July 19th, 2004, 03:06 PM	#14
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	1) is the step I'm stuck on: record from VHS back to miniDV. I tried simply hooking RCA cables from the VCR back to the cam, but I didn't see any indication that it was working. Can't think of any other way to do it, unless you have a VCR with an S-Video connector (I don't). __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

July 19th, 2004, 03:26 PM	#15
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I believe it should work with the RCA plugs. What does the manual say? You may want to do a search on the XL-1 forum on this topic. I know it's been discussed there.