Maximizing HD to SD Quality

Harry Simpson · August 23rd, 2009, 01:59 PM

Perrone,

Just that you said DVDA did a nice job on the MPEG2 but i heard you to also say that Vegas did a better job outputting MPEG2.

So I have a resized to 720x480 AVI so bring that into Vegas again and

1. render using which type to output to MPEG2 in Vegas?
2. i guess apply the Lagarith again here too?

Then DVDA will not have to resize or inplicitly have to convert to MPEG2 right?

Thanks
Harry

Harry Simpson · August 23rd, 2009, 04:55 PM

Found the MPEG-2 Main Concepts type but could not customize the video to change the output size to same VD produced which was 720x405 - so all i could do is bring the product of VD into DVDA and burning to DVD now.....

Perrone Ford · August 23rd, 2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Simpson

Found the MPEG-2 Main Concepts type but could not customize the video to change the output size to same VD produced which was 720x405 - so all i could do is bring the product of VD into DVDA and burning to DVD now.....

This is correct. DVDA or Mainconcept in Vegas will both create a 720x480 project. You want that, so don't worry.

Harry Simpson · August 23rd, 2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

This is correct. DVDA or Mainconcept in Vegas will both create a 720x480 project. You want that, so don't worry.

But niether enabled the the Custimize deal where i could specify the Lararith for the render.
I'm re-rendering out of vegas cause the strait through DVDA itself didn't look too hot.

So when I bring this .MPG file 720x480 into the DVDA application will it recognize that it doesn't need to re-render in DVDA and just create the folder and burn the DVD?

Perrone Ford · August 24th, 2009, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Simpson

But niether enabled the the Custimize deal where i could specify the Lararith for the render.
I'm re-rendering out of vegas cause the strait through DVDA itself didn't look too hot.

It's not supposed to. You are now encoding a DVD format which is Mpeg2. The Lagarith codec was just the intermediate step to make sure you lost nothing along the way in getting to this final step.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Simpson

So when I bring this .MPG file 720x480 into the DVDA application will it recognize that it doesn't need to re-render in DVDA and just create the folder and burn the DVD?

Correct. Once you output the Mpeg2 with the template in Vegas, DVDA will not recompress it. It's DVD ready, and it just organizes the DVD structure and write the file. VERY quick.

Harry Simpson · August 24th, 2009, 08:41 AM

Thanks Perrone,

You da man! I now have enough to go through the whole workflow and tweek it here and there.

the video i was using looked a little better but wasn't the best exposed video to start with. Also this last DVD burn had no sound so something fell through the cracks. The virtualdub process took like 8 hours to complete!! for a 20 minute clip.......that's a long time.

I'll repeat the process on aother video soon and see it i can't make it better.

Thanks for eveyone's help!!

Perrone Ford · August 24th, 2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Simpson

Thanks Perrone,

You da man! I now have enough to go through the whole workflow and tweek it here and there.

the video i was using looked a little better but wasn't the best exposed video to start with. Also this last DVD burn had no sound so something fell through the cracks. The virtualdub process took like 8 hours to complete!! for a 20 minute clip.......that's a long time.

I'll repeat the process on aother video soon and see it i can't make it better.

Thanks for eveyone's help!!

It's so hard talking someone through this workflow when they don't have a firm grip on some general things.

When you create DVDs, the video portion and the audio portion are compressed separately. So you compress the video in Vegas to Mpeg2. Then you compress the audio separately with the Dolby Digitial AC-3 Studio Template. Name this the same thing as you named the video file, and when you are in DVDA and drop the video file on the timeline, the audio will come with it automatically.

The Audio must be compressed separately, because audio in the DVD legal format isn't compressed with the same codec as the video. So you must separate them.

Virtualdub is generally quite fast for me, but it does use the GPU on my machines which helps I guess. Resize can be a pretty heavy function, but it's not the worst.

Ken Diewert · August 24th, 2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Simpson

Thanks Perrone,

The virtualdub process took like 8 hours to complete!! for a 20 minute clip.......that's a long time.

I'll repeat the process on aother video soon and see it i can't make it better.

Harry, until you get your workflow figured out, it's good to use a 15 or even a 30 second clip. Everything speeds up, and you can tweak settings until you find the right one. Once you've got your workflow figured out on a 15-second clip, write it down (in vdub, you can set your 'resize' settings as default), then start working on bigger files.

BTW, it shouldn't take 8 hours to resize a 20-minute clip.

Perrone Ford · August 24th, 2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Diewert

BTW, it shouldn't take 8 hours to resize a 20-minute clip.

Yep, he's doing something wrong, or has a VERY slow machine.

Harry Simpson · August 24th, 2009, 02:13 PM

[QUOTE=Perrone Ford;1263561]It's so hard talking someone through this workflow when they don't have a firm grip on some general things.[QUOTE]

My apologies. I always had the DVD app split the two in the burner app. My bad. I'd figured it out after i posted that.....

I'll sign outta here and give you all some peace.

Thanks

Perrone Ford · August 24th, 2009, 02:23 PM

[QUOTE=Harry Simpson;1264577][QUOTE=Perrone Ford;1263561]It's so hard talking someone through this workflow when they don't have a firm grip on some general things.

Quote:

My apologies. I always had the DVD app split the two in the burner app. My bad. I'd figured it out after i posted that.....

I'll sign outta here and give you all some peace.

Thanks

No biggie man. That's why we're here. From what I've seen, people have gotten a LOT out of this thread, so you're helping a bunch of people along...

Jeff Kellam · August 24th, 2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

...
When you create DVDs, the video portion and the audio portion are compressed separately. So you compress the video in Vegas to Mpeg2. Then you compress the audio separately with the Dolby Digitial AC-3 Studio Template. Name this the same thing as you named the video file, and when you are in DVDA and drop the video file on the timeline, the audio will come with it automatically.

Perrone:

I can't believe a fanatic for quality like you would use the AC-3 studio template in Vegas. It's a recipe for normalized, low dynamic range, compressed audio.

If you have to have a low bandwidth 5.1 track, it's your only only Vegas option though.

I would stick a LPCM track on the disc also as an option if you are using AC-3 and you have the spare disk room. Let the end user decide which audio track to use.

Ken Diewert · August 24th, 2009, 02:56 PM

[QUOTE=Perrone Ford;1264582][QUOTE=Harry Simpson;1264577]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

It's so hard talking someone through this workflow when they don't have a firm grip on some general things.

No biggie man. That's why we're here. From what I've seen, people have gotten a LOT out of this thread, so you're helping a bunch of people along...

Yeah, don't sweat it Harry. This thread started 12 days ago and has nearly 2,800 views. There are a lot of people benefitting from the thread. I know I certainly have.

Again, thanks to Perrone for his patience in helping many of us through the process.

And the info will be here over time for others to benefit from it. Even with help, it's still very much a trial and error process.

Perrone Ford · August 24th, 2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kellam

Perrone:

I can't believe a fanatic for quality like you would use the AC-3 studio template in Vegas. It's a recipe for normalized, low dynamic range, compressed audio.

If you have to have a low bandwidth 5.1 track, it's your only only Vegas option though.

My bread and butter at the office is spoken word, long form conferences. I just don't need anything else. If I am doing narrative work then I make different choices.

John Peterson · August 25th, 2009, 12:40 PM

Still don't have an answer to what to do with progressive footage shot at 1080/30p from an EX1.

1. Render out an intermediate avi lossless file at 1920 x 1080 using which template for the Lagarith or Huffy UV?

2. Resize in VD at 720 x 405?? or change to 480? Use a lossless codec. Interlaced?? Where is Progressive in VD? What do I do with progressive footage in VD?

3. Load resized avi into vegas and render to an Mpeg 2 for DVDA as what? Interlaced, Progressive?

4. Field order problems?

John

August 23rd, 2009, 01:59 PM	#91
Harry Simpson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Nashville, TN. Posts: 581	Perrone, Just that you said DVDA did a nice job on the MPEG2 but i heard you to also say that Vegas did a better job outputting MPEG2. So I have a resized to 720x480 AVI so bring that into Vegas again and 1. render using which type to output to MPEG2 in Vegas? 2. i guess apply the Lagarith again here too? Then DVDA will not have to resize or inplicitly have to convert to MPEG2 right? Thanks Harry __________________ Nashville TN using Canon 5D MK3, Canon 550D, RODE SVM mic, 70-200 f2.8L II IS, 24-105 f4L IS, 50 and 85 f/1.8, Vegas Pro 11, Zoom H4n, Blackbird, Lilliput Monitor, Lightroom

August 23rd, 2009, 04:55 PM	#92
Harry Simpson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Nashville, TN. Posts: 581	Found the MPEG-2 Main Concepts type but could not customize the video to change the output size to same VD produced which was 720x405 - so all i could do is bring the product of VD into DVDA and burning to DVD now..... __________________ Nashville TN using Canon 5D MK3, Canon 550D, RODE SVM mic, 70-200 f2.8L II IS, 24-105 f4L IS, 50 and 85 f/1.8, Vegas Pro 11, Zoom H4n, Blackbird, Lilliput Monitor, Lightroom

August 24th, 2009, 08:41 AM	#96
Harry Simpson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Nashville, TN. Posts: 581	Thanks Perrone, You da man! I now have enough to go through the whole workflow and tweek it here and there. the video i was using looked a little better but wasn't the best exposed video to start with. Also this last DVD burn had no sound so something fell through the cracks. The virtualdub process took like 8 hours to complete!! for a 20 minute clip.......that's a long time. I'll repeat the process on aother video soon and see it i can't make it better. Thanks for eveyone's help!! __________________ Nashville TN using Canon 5D MK3, Canon 550D, RODE SVM mic, 70-200 f2.8L II IS, 24-105 f4L IS, 50 and 85 f/1.8, Vegas Pro 11, Zoom H4n, Blackbird, Lilliput Monitor, Lightroom

August 24th, 2009, 02:13 PM	#100
Harry Simpson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Nashville, TN. Posts: 581	[QUOTE=Perrone Ford;1263561]It's so hard talking someone through this workflow when they don't have a firm grip on some general things.[QUOTE] My apologies. I always had the DVD app split the two in the burner app. My bad. I'd figured it out after i posted that..... I'll sign outta here and give you all some peace. Thanks __________________ Nashville TN using Canon 5D MK3, Canon 550D, RODE SVM mic, 70-200 f2.8L II IS, 24-105 f4L IS, 50 and 85 f/1.8, Vegas Pro 11, Zoom H4n, Blackbird, Lilliput Monitor, Lightroom

August 25th, 2009, 12:40 PM	#105
John Peterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Monroe, NY Posts: 703	Still don't have an answer to what to do with progressive footage shot at 1080/30p from an EX1. 1. Render out an intermediate avi lossless file at 1920 x 1080 using which template for the Lagarith or Huffy UV? 2. Resize in VD at 720 x 405?? or change to 480? Use a lossless codec. Interlaced?? Where is Progressive in VD? What do I do with progressive footage in VD? 3. Load resized avi into vegas and render to an Mpeg 2 for DVDA as what? Interlaced, Progressive? 4. Field order problems? John