Vegas8 ==> DVDA5 weirdness. at DVinfo.net

Dennis Murphy · May 24th, 2009, 08:35 PM

Using the PAL Widescreen DVDA template, and resetting the bitrate to fit the 120 minute project, I've rendered a MPEG2 file that is 3.82GB on my hard disk.
When I load it in DVDA, even as a single movie with no menu, it has the red warning sign at the bottom of the screen saying "Disk space used 5.8 GB".

Any ideas as to what it reads it as a much larger filesize than what the rendered MPEG2 file actually is?

Ben Longden · May 25th, 2009, 12:16 AM

Tried using DVDA to optimise it, so it fits?

Ben

Dennis Murphy · May 25th, 2009, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Longden

Tried using DVDA to optimise it, so it fits?
Ben

I considered that, but wanted to avoid it putting the footage through another bout of compression on top of compression.
I assumed that if it was rendered out of Vegas using the DVDA template, and came in under the 4.3GB size, that further 'optimising' wasn't needed?

Mike Kujbida · May 25th, 2009, 01:50 AM

Dennis, DVDA has a long history of incorrectly reporting file sizes.
I've had it happen to me as well even though I know that, like you, my files are well within limits.
When that happens, I ignore the warnings and proceed.
It then goes through the rest of the process without any more warnings.

Dennis Murphy · May 25th, 2009, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Kujbida

Dennis, DVDA has a long history of incorrectly reporting file sizes.
I've had it happen to me as well even though I know that, like you, my files are well within limits.
When that happens, I ignore the warnings and proceed.
It then goes through the rest of the process without any more warnings.

Ahhh sweet! Thanks for that Mike!

Dennis Murphy · May 25th, 2009, 03:58 PM

Nope, still didn't work - it ejected the DVD and said that the media is too big etc.
This really sux as I don't want to render as a particular format for another authoring package to then have to re-render that again etc.
Grrrr.

Mike Kujbida · May 25th, 2009, 06:00 PM

What bitrate did you use for the video?
You said the video was 3.82 GB but what about the audio?
Did you render that as AC-3 or PCM (i.e. WAV)?
PCM audio will be MUCH larger than AC-3 (by a factor of 10) and may be the reason it's over the limit.

The bitrate calculator I use gives the following numbers (assuming AC-3 audio) for a 2 hr. encode:
CBR: 4,688,000
VBR: 2,808,000 / 4,688,000 / 8,000,000 (Min / Avg / Max)

If you used PCM audio instead, these numbers drop as follows:
CBR: 3,344,000
VBR: 2,504,000 / 3,344,000 / 6,688,000

Dennis Murphy · May 25th, 2009, 08:17 PM

That's a weird thing for the Main Concept codec used for the DVD Architect template in Vegas... I can't find where to choose PCM or ACE like in other codecs.

What I can't understand, is even it was PCM audio, the resulting filesize is still 3.82 GB... so why doesn't DVDA see it as an acceptable size for DVD media?
Another weird thing I found, is the same file used in a project with menus and scene detection reports less size used than a straight autoplay DVD by DVDA?

I haven't had problems before, but the longest DVD I've burnt would've been on the 40 minute mark. I want to get it sorted, as I don't want my workflow to have an extra rendering step added by doing some sort of intermediate, then importing that into DVDA for conversion.

Any help hugely appreciated.

Mike Kujbida · May 25th, 2009, 08:41 PM

Which specific template are you using?

For all my renders, I use either the DVD Architect NTSC video stream or the DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream template for video.
You would obviously use the PAL template but that's the only difference.

If the video is under 70 min. long, I've got a custom template set up so that it encodes at a CBR of 8,000,000.
Anything longer and I use my bitrate calculator (NOTE: link is to a zipped file) to figure out a custom setting.
I also switch from CBR to VBR.

For audio, I always use Dolby Digital AC-3 Pro.
The default template is fine.
As long as you give both files the same surname (video.mpg & video.ac3) and render them to the same folder, DVDA will load the audio as soon as the video is loaded.

It's my bedtime here so I'll sign off now but will check back in the morning to see how you made out.

Dennis Murphy · May 25th, 2009, 09:05 PM

Yeah Mike, I use the DVD Architect PAL Widescreen template. I have a bitrate calculator that I used, and even gave it a conservative formula - but still DVDA seems to add 2 GB to the filesize... my windows OS sees it 3GB.
Do you render the MPEG2 video only out, then render with a seperate AC3 codec, then import them both into DVDA?

Mike Kujbida · May 26th, 2009, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy

Yeah Mike, I use the DVD Architect PAL Widescreen template. I have a bitrate calculator that I used, and even gave it a conservative formula - but still DVDA seems to add 2 GB to the filesize... my windows OS sees it 3GB.

What were your bitrate settings?
What did you do for your audio?

Quote:

Do you render the MPEG2 video only out, then render with a seperate AC3 codec, then import them both into DVDA?

That's correct.
I've always done it that way and it's always worked for me.

Dennis Murphy · May 26th, 2009, 04:02 PM

Well, I rendered it out with seperate AC3 audio and everything is fine even though the file sizes are the same. Hmmm, weird - it doesn't make sense to me, but it's good to get a resolution to the problem.
Thanks for the help Mike.

Mike Kujbida · May 26th, 2009, 06:12 PM

My pleasure Dennis.
I wish I knew what happened to make it work though.
Chalk another one up to the computer gremlins :-)

May 24th, 2009, 08:35 PM	#1
Dennis Murphy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 396	Vegas8 ==> DVDA5 weirdness. Using the PAL Widescreen DVDA template, and resetting the bitrate to fit the 120 minute project, I've rendered a MPEG2 file that is 3.82GB on my hard disk. When I load it in DVDA, even as a single movie with no menu, it has the red warning sign at the bottom of the screen saying "Disk space used 5.8 GB". Any ideas as to what it reads it as a much larger filesize than what the rendered MPEG2 file actually is? __________________ http://www.dmvideostuff.co.nz

May 25th, 2009, 03:58 PM	#6
Dennis Murphy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 396	Nope, still didn't work - it ejected the DVD and said that the media is too big etc. This really sux as I don't want to render as a particular format for another authoring package to then have to re-render that again etc. Grrrr. __________________ http://www.dmvideostuff.co.nz

May 25th, 2009, 08:17 PM	#8
Dennis Murphy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 396	That's a weird thing for the Main Concept codec used for the DVD Architect template in Vegas... I can't find where to choose PCM or ACE like in other codecs. What I can't understand, is even it was PCM audio, the resulting filesize is still 3.82 GB... so why doesn't DVDA see it as an acceptable size for DVD media? Another weird thing I found, is the same file used in a project with menus and scene detection reports less size used than a straight autoplay DVD by DVDA? I haven't had problems before, but the longest DVD I've burnt would've been on the 40 minute mark. I want to get it sorted, as I don't want my workflow to have an extra rendering step added by doing some sort of intermediate, then importing that into DVDA for conversion. Any help hugely appreciated. __________________ http://www.dmvideostuff.co.nz

May 25th, 2009, 09:05 PM	#10
Dennis Murphy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 396	Yeah Mike, I use the DVD Architect PAL Widescreen template. I have a bitrate calculator that I used, and even gave it a conservative formula - but still DVDA seems to add 2 GB to the filesize... my windows OS sees it 3GB. Do you render the MPEG2 video only out, then render with a seperate AC3 codec, then import them both into DVDA? __________________ http://www.dmvideostuff.co.nz

May 26th, 2009, 04:02 PM	#12
Dennis Murphy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 396	Well, I rendered it out with seperate AC3 audio and everything is fine even though the file sizes are the same. Hmmm, weird - it doesn't make sense to me, but it's good to get a resolution to the problem. Thanks for the help Mike. __________________ http://www.dmvideostuff.co.nz

May 25th, 2009, 12:16 AM	#2
Ben Longden Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Echuca, Victoria, Australiamate Posts: 179	Tried using DVDA to optimise it, so it fits? Ben

May 25th, 2009, 01:50 AM	#4
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Dennis, DVDA has a long history of incorrectly reporting file sizes. I've had it happen to me as well even though I know that, like you, my files are well within limits. When that happens, I ignore the warnings and proceed. It then goes through the rest of the process without any more warnings.

May 25th, 2009, 06:00 PM	#7
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	What bitrate did you use for the video? You said the video was 3.82 GB but what about the audio? Did you render that as AC-3 or PCM (i.e. WAV)? PCM audio will be MUCH larger than AC-3 (by a factor of 10) and may be the reason it's over the limit. The bitrate calculator I use gives the following numbers (assuming AC-3 audio) for a 2 hr. encode: CBR: 4,688,000 VBR: 2,808,000 / 4,688,000 / 8,000,000 (Min / Avg / Max) If you used PCM audio instead, these numbers drop as follows: CBR: 3,344,000 VBR: 2,504,000 / 3,344,000 / 6,688,000

May 25th, 2009, 08:41 PM	#9
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Which specific template are you using? For all my renders, I use either the DVD Architect NTSC video stream or the DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream template for video. You would obviously use the PAL template but that's the only difference. If the video is under 70 min. long, I've got a custom template set up so that it encodes at a CBR of 8,000,000. Anything longer and I use my bitrate calculator (NOTE: link is to a zipped file) to figure out a custom setting. I also switch from CBR to VBR. For audio, I always use Dolby Digital AC-3 Pro. The default template is fine. As long as you give both files the same surname (video.mpg & video.ac3) and render them to the same folder, DVDA will load the audio as soon as the video is loaded. It's my bedtime here so I'll sign off now but will check back in the morning to see how you made out.

May 26th, 2009, 06:12 PM	#13
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	My pleasure Dennis. I wish I knew what happened to make it work though. Chalk another one up to the computer gremlins :-)