Frame drops when pulling to 2nd HD. at DVinfo.net

Kevin Kimmell · February 18th, 2004, 04:36 PM

I haven't cracked my case open to see for sure, but when I pull from my GL2 to my 2nd hard drive (which is defragmented and has plenty of space) I get frame drops after a few minutes.

Would the most likely reason for this be performance on that drive? I'm not sure if it's a 5400 or 7200 rpm drive. I just grabbed it from a machine that was lying around. Must I have a 7200 rpm drive to get results from Vegas?

I'm running Win2k Pro and have 512MB RAM. If I pull clips to the 1st drive it's fine but I've only got a few gigs free on that drive.

Thanks,
Kevin

Rob Lohman · February 18th, 2004, 05:01 PM

Not all 5400 rpm drives (especially the older ones) can handle the
load indeed. But that doesn't have to be the case. It all depends
on the drive. Do you have DMA turned on with that drive? (not
always the case if you add a "new" one). Is there any other
device on the cable that runs from the motherboard to the drive?
If so, it might not be able to run at full speed.

What does your bios say about the drive when your system boots
(ie, (U)DMA, PIO etc.)?

Edward Troxel · February 18th, 2004, 09:27 PM

Sounds like a system configuration error. I would check the DMA setting for that drive first. Rob gives you many good suggestions.

Kevin Kimmell · February 22nd, 2004, 11:58 AM

Okay... sorry for the delay, I was visiting the sun in Myrtle.

On boot for the second drive I see:

LBA, ATA66, 20526MB, S.M.A.R.T. disabled. Nothing denoting DMA or PIO stuff. I'll have to jump into the bios and see what I see.

Does it matter that Vegas is installed on the other drive and I'm pulling the video to this one?

Edward Troxel · February 22nd, 2004, 01:42 PM

It doesn't really matter which drive Vegas is installed on. Generally speaking, it should be installed on the system drive.

The DMA setting is in the Device Manager. Depending on the OS you either have to look at the controller card OR the hard drive. Look at both places and verify DMA is on.

Kevin Kimmell · February 22nd, 2004, 10:36 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Edward Troxel : The DMA setting is in the Device Manager. Depending on the OS you either have to look at the controller card OR the hard drive. Look at both places and verify DMA is on. -->>>

I'm on Win2kPro. In the device manager when I bring the properties of the IBM drive up the only configurable switch I see is Write Cache which is currently enabled.

I also looked at the Disk Manager and don't see DMA options listed. I'm going to reboot right now and see what's to see in the bios. I forgot to do it this time :)

Be right back...

Kevin Kimmell · February 22nd, 2004, 10:40 PM

Okay... I'm a moron.. and to top it off, I got my start as a tech. Now I'm a net admin so I guess the details of systems poored out of my head.

Anyhow, upon looking at the primary channel of the IDE controller for the secondary device on the Advanced tab I see:

Device type: Auto Detection
Transfer Mode: DMA if avail
Current Mode: Ultra DMA Mode

So this is a strange deal. Should I switch it to PIO? Are there any tweaks within Vegas that might help?

And to answer Rob's earlier question this is the 2nd drive on the primary IDE channel. The other device being the system drive.

Thanks,
Kevin

Glenn Chan · February 23rd, 2004, 12:02 AM

PIO mode is craptacular. Avoid it at all costs.

Edward Troxel · February 23rd, 2004, 08:20 AM

NO, LEAVE it on DMA. However, that rules that out from being the problem. Frequently, the DMA issue IS the problem. In your case, it appears to go deeper. Now you'll have to determine what other system pieces may be slowing you down. Unfortunately, there's a wide variety of things that could cause that.

Guy Bruner · February 23rd, 2004, 09:49 AM

Quote:

And to answer Rob's earlier question this is the 2nd drive on the primary IDE channel. The other device being the system drive.

For optimum results, you should not have your capture drive on the same channel with your system drive. Move it to the 2nd IDE channel. Generally what I have found is 1st IDE channel: System drive is master, DVD-rom is slave. 2nd IDE channel: Capture drive is master, DVD-writer is slave.

Kevin Kimmell · February 23rd, 2004, 09:51 AM

Thanks Guy... I'll try this tonight.

Kevin Kimmell · February 24th, 2004, 10:56 AM

Thanks alot! That seems to have solved the problem. I pulled a full tape last night with zero drops.

Guy Bruner · February 24th, 2004, 11:01 AM

Kevin,
That's great. Glad it worked out for you. Now, going forward, keep the capture drive as empty and defragmented as possible or it will slow down and you'll drop frames again.

Kevin Kimmell · February 24th, 2004, 11:04 AM

Will do, Guy. Hey, do you let Vegas cut the incoming fed clips to the CD-ROM margin? I didn't notice that I hadn't unchecked that and am wondering if it's a good idea just for the sake of an error happening when I'm not watching.

I'm assuming that there's no frame loss at the cut point and that clipping them together in a prject is easy. Do any of you allow it to gut at any point? If so, why?

Thanks!

-Kevin

Guy Bruner · February 24th, 2004, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Hey, do you let Vegas cut the incoming fed clips to the CD-ROM margin?

I'm not sure what you mean here, Kevin. Generally, I let Vegas detect clips automatically. If you have a continuous stream, you can break it up by time or capture it fully then later split it up on the timeline. If you are referring to the Windows FAT32 file size limit, I use XP so don't have to worry about it. However, Vegas should split the file without dropping frames.

February 18th, 2004, 04:36 PM	#1
Kevin Kimmell Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 209	Frame drops when pulling to 2nd HD. I haven't cracked my case open to see for sure, but when I pull from my GL2 to my 2nd hard drive (which is defragmented and has plenty of space) I get frame drops after a few minutes. Would the most likely reason for this be performance on that drive? I'm not sure if it's a 5400 or 7200 rpm drive. I just grabbed it from a machine that was lying around. Must I have a 7200 rpm drive to get results from Vegas? I'm running Win2k Pro and have 512MB RAM. If I pull clips to the 1st drive it's fine but I've only got a few gigs free on that drive. Thanks, Kevin

February 18th, 2004, 05:01 PM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Not all 5400 rpm drives (especially the older ones) can handle the load indeed. But that doesn't have to be the case. It all depends on the drive. Do you have DMA turned on with that drive? (not always the case if you add a "new" one). Is there any other device on the cable that runs from the motherboard to the drive? If so, it might not be able to run at full speed. What does your bios say about the drive when your system boots (ie, (U)DMA, PIO etc.)? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 18th, 2004, 09:27 PM	#3
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Sounds like a system configuration error. I would check the DMA setting for that drive first. Rob gives you many good suggestions.

February 22nd, 2004, 11:58 AM	#4
Kevin Kimmell Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 209	Okay... sorry for the delay, I was visiting the sun in Myrtle. On boot for the second drive I see: LBA, ATA66, 20526MB, S.M.A.R.T. disabled. Nothing denoting DMA or PIO stuff. I'll have to jump into the bios and see what I see. Does it matter that Vegas is installed on the other drive and I'm pulling the video to this one?

February 22nd, 2004, 01:42 PM	#5
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	It doesn't really matter which drive Vegas is installed on. Generally speaking, it should be installed on the system drive. The DMA setting is in the Device Manager. Depending on the OS you either have to look at the controller card OR the hard drive. Look at both places and verify DMA is on.

February 22nd, 2004, 10:36 PM	#6
Kevin Kimmell Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 209	<<<-- Originally posted by Edward Troxel : The DMA setting is in the Device Manager. Depending on the OS you either have to look at the controller card OR the hard drive. Look at both places and verify DMA is on. -->>> I'm on Win2kPro. In the device manager when I bring the properties of the IBM drive up the only configurable switch I see is Write Cache which is currently enabled. I also looked at the Disk Manager and don't see DMA options listed. I'm going to reboot right now and see what's to see in the bios. I forgot to do it this time :) Be right back...

February 22nd, 2004, 10:40 PM	#7
Kevin Kimmell Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 209	Okay... I'm a moron.. and to top it off, I got my start as a tech. Now I'm a net admin so I guess the details of systems poored out of my head. Anyhow, upon looking at the primary channel of the IDE controller for the secondary device on the Advanced tab I see: Device type: Auto Detection Transfer Mode: DMA if avail Current Mode: Ultra DMA Mode So this is a strange deal. Should I switch it to PIO? Are there any tweaks within Vegas that might help? And to answer Rob's earlier question this is the 2nd drive on the primary IDE channel. The other device being the system drive. Thanks, Kevin

February 23rd, 2004, 12:02 AM	#8
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	PIO mode is craptacular. Avoid it at all costs.

February 23rd, 2004, 08:20 AM	#9
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	NO, LEAVE it on DMA. However, that rules that out from being the problem. Frequently, the DMA issue IS the problem. In your case, it appears to go deeper. Now you'll have to determine what other system pieces may be slowing you down. Unfortunately, there's a wide variety of things that could cause that.

February 23rd, 2004, 09:51 AM	#11
Kevin Kimmell Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 209	Thanks Guy... I'll try this tonight.

February 24th, 2004, 10:56 AM	#12
Kevin Kimmell Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 209	Thanks alot! That seems to have solved the problem. I pulled a full tape last night with zero drops.

February 24th, 2004, 11:01 AM	#13
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	Kevin, That's great. Glad it worked out for you. Now, going forward, keep the capture drive as empty and defragmented as possible or it will slow down and you'll drop frames again.

February 24th, 2004, 11:04 AM	#14
Kevin Kimmell Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 209	Will do, Guy. Hey, do you let Vegas cut the incoming fed clips to the CD-ROM margin? I didn't notice that I hadn't unchecked that and am wondering if it's a good idea just for the sake of an error happening when I'm not watching. I'm assuming that there's no frame loss at the cut point and that clipping them together in a prject is easy. Do any of you allow it to gut at any point? If so, why? Thanks! -Kevin