Vegas capablity of big projects at DVinfo.net

Michael Estepp · January 10th, 2004, 02:11 PM

Im going to be editing a 2 hour project. My friend is argueing with me that Vegas can't handle it and that we should use premiere pro. I think this is rediculous. Can I get some confermation?

Imran Zaidi · January 10th, 2004, 02:20 PM

If you've ever experienced the horrors of long projects on the previous version of Premiere (6.5), and then later found Vegas which provided a hugely more stable alternative for those long projects, you would find it very laughable to suggest that this latest version of Premiere somehow can handle some large project that Vegas can not.

In other words, Vegas 4 brought possibilities that Premiere 6.5 struggled with. Premiere Pro has now come out and is supposedly much more stable (though I have only used it in passing so I cannot confirm). So to suggest Vegas can't handle a big project doesn't make sense since Vegas was the reason Adobe had to hurry up and spit out Premiere Pro before it was originally scheduled for release.

However, Premiere is a much more established name, so that may be the difficulty your friend is having.

Glenn Chan · January 10th, 2004, 02:23 PM

What kind of project is this? A multicamera shoot?

Don Donatello · January 10th, 2004, 02:51 PM

we edited a project that at times was 3 - 4 hrs (vegas TL). the computer had 500gigs of video h.drives plus 80 gig C ...
it was a little sluggish moving around the TL when we hit above 3 hrs. that could have been the computer and not vegas ? as it had 384 mgs ram ..
the other factor might have been all our material was captured as 13 gig file ( each tape) so vegas was accessing/had open 400+ gig of files all the time ... we found that cutting the project in 1/2 solved the sluggish ....

since then on long projects ( 1 hr or more ) we edit it in 15-30 min segments ... then render these off and put them together in 1 vegas to view whole project - then go back to each segment to make changes ...

David Mintzer · January 10th, 2004, 05:21 PM

The only issues I have had with Vegas doing long form (and thats all I do) is the bin issues already discussed here and elsewhere---other then that, its rock solid.

Aaron Koolen · January 10th, 2004, 08:39 PM

Michael, as David just mentioned there is a bin issue with Vegas. Vegas is crap at media management through the media pool. If you'll be using alot of clips, then use the explorer in vegas, and turn on show regions after you've made regions of your clips. Do everything through explorer. Edward Troxel put me onto this after I had major problem with Vegas screwing up my media pool.

Here is the thread

Aaron

edit: Corrected your name Edward ;)

Edward Troxel · January 10th, 2004, 10:08 PM

I'm currently working on a 3 hour 3 camera shoot. Vegas is handling it with ease. After cutting it down, the final print to tape will be 2 hours (1 vhs max)

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 11th, 2004, 12:18 AM

Most of our doc work comes in just under 2 hours, with at least 3 cams on everything. If you know the limitations of the Bin structure, it's not a problem. In fact, we've never relied on anyone's bin structure, because 8 years ago, there wasn't such a thing, so we've gotten into the habit of creating folders for each tape, and cross referencing via the Media Pool in Vegas, plus using Regions. This is the best way to accomplish this. Build regions in the Trimmer or in the timeline and save.
Premiere Pro is much better than it used to be at media management, but it's no different than Vegas at the end of the day. IMO, only AVID really has this down tight.

Michael Estepp · January 11th, 2004, 12:26 AM

I dont understand this whole region thing. I never ever use the trimmer... its not as simple as throwing a clip on the time line and hitting "s" to slice it up. The trimmer doesn't seem to be as extensive as it should.... the only options it has is that you can start a clip from cursor position or end it there. maybe Im missing some options. I dont know, but I dont understand the region thing.

Aaron Koolen · January 11th, 2004, 12:35 AM

Michael. Load a clip into the trimmer, and mark a region. Then click the 'save regions' icon. Once that's done you can go to the Explorer, and select the file that has the region marked on it. Right click in the explorer window->view->region view and then you'll see the regions you marked in the selected file.

Aaron

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 11th, 2004, 12:40 AM

Lotsa folks don't use the Trimmer. If you don't need to have tight media control, if you shoot for editing with lots of stop/starts on the cam to mark takes, then the Trimmer might not be for you. Fewer and fewer people use the Trimmer/Source window in various NLE's anyway these days. Timeline based editing is more the norm from what I see in the forums and in daily conversations with editors.
Regions allow you to mark out sections of longer clips. Suppose you captured a one hour clip, and you wanted to mark out sections before putting them on the timeline. If you work with an analog cam, this would almost always be the case. Maybe your DV cam had a dead battery. Whatever the case, the Trimmer allows you to mark and identify the pieces you wish to keep. The marked sections are usually marked via the R key for Region. If you only use the M key for Marker, you only have marked points, but by using the R key/Regions, you can identify In/Out points. (I/O) Then, you can throw those sections on the timeline, do a Save As With Copy of Media, and get rid of the rest of the one-=hour capture you didn't want to have there taking up disk space.
This is just one example of how Trimmer can be used, but again, many people don't use Source or Trimmer editing functions any more.

Harry Settle · January 11th, 2004, 02:48 PM

Two Hour project. . . no sweat for Vegas.

Aaron Koolen · January 11th, 2004, 07:57 PM

Douglas, are you saying more people just chuck the whole clip on the timeline and trim from that? I generally use the trimmer but then often I have loooong clips.

Aaron

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 11th, 2004, 08:06 PM

I don't know about 'more' people, but this is a common way that newer-comers to video editing seem to be doing it. If they don't have a background in working with source tapes and linear editing systems, the workflow isn't quite as natural to them. I see guys all the time that throw a one-hour event on the timeline, use the "S" key to split sections out, toss what they don't want from the TL, and them do a "Save As" and delete the original one-hour event/clip.
Since I rarely have long clips like this, I generally use the trimmer for long, and use the timeline for shorter stuff. Beauty of it is, Vegas will allow for either (and more) workflows.

Edward Troxel · January 11th, 2004, 10:48 PM

I'll admit to being one of the "timeline" people. I only use the trimmer when there is a specific reason to do so.

January 10th, 2004, 02:11 PM	#1
Michael Estepp Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 95	Vegas capablity of big projects Im going to be editing a 2 hour project. My friend is argueing with me that Vegas can't handle it and that we should use premiere pro. I think this is rediculous. Can I get some confermation?

January 10th, 2004, 08:39 PM	#6
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Michael, as David just mentioned there is a bin issue with Vegas. Vegas is crap at media management through the media pool. If you'll be using alot of clips, then use the explorer in vegas, and turn on show regions after you've made regions of your clips. Do everything through explorer. Edward Troxel put me onto this after I had major problem with Vegas screwing up my media pool. Here is the thread Aaron edit: Corrected your name Edward ;) __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

January 11th, 2004, 12:18 AM	#8
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Vegas capablity of big projects Most of our doc work comes in just under 2 hours, with at least 3 cams on everything. If you know the limitations of the Bin structure, it's not a problem. In fact, we've never relied on anyone's bin structure, because 8 years ago, there wasn't such a thing, so we've gotten into the habit of creating folders for each tape, and cross referencing via the Media Pool in Vegas, plus using Regions. This is the best way to accomplish this. Build regions in the Trimmer or in the timeline and save. Premiere Pro is much better than it used to be at media management, but it's no different than Vegas at the end of the day. IMO, only AVID really has this down tight. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 11th, 2004, 12:35 AM	#10
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Michael. Load a clip into the trimmer, and mark a region. Then click the 'save regions' icon. Once that's done you can go to the Explorer, and select the file that has the region marked on it. Right click in the explorer window->view->region view and then you'll see the regions you marked in the selected file. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

January 11th, 2004, 12:40 AM	#11
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Lotsa folks don't use the Trimmer. If you don't need to have tight media control, if you shoot for editing with lots of stop/starts on the cam to mark takes, then the Trimmer might not be for you. Fewer and fewer people use the Trimmer/Source window in various NLE's anyway these days. Timeline based editing is more the norm from what I see in the forums and in daily conversations with editors. Regions allow you to mark out sections of longer clips. Suppose you captured a one hour clip, and you wanted to mark out sections before putting them on the timeline. If you work with an analog cam, this would almost always be the case. Maybe your DV cam had a dead battery. Whatever the case, the Trimmer allows you to mark and identify the pieces you wish to keep. The marked sections are usually marked via the R key for Region. If you only use the M key for Marker, you only have marked points, but by using the R key/Regions, you can identify In/Out points. (I/O) Then, you can throw those sections on the timeline, do a Save As With Copy of Media, and get rid of the rest of the one-=hour capture you didn't want to have there taking up disk space. This is just one example of how Trimmer can be used, but again, many people don't use Source or Trimmer editing functions any more. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 10th, 2004, 02:20 PM	#2
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	If you've ever experienced the horrors of long projects on the previous version of Premiere (6.5), and then later found Vegas which provided a hugely more stable alternative for those long projects, you would find it very laughable to suggest that this latest version of Premiere somehow can handle some large project that Vegas can not. In other words, Vegas 4 brought possibilities that Premiere 6.5 struggled with. Premiere Pro has now come out and is supposedly much more stable (though I have only used it in passing so I cannot confirm). So to suggest Vegas can't handle a big project doesn't make sense since Vegas was the reason Adobe had to hurry up and spit out Premiere Pro before it was originally scheduled for release. However, Premiere is a much more established name, so that may be the difficulty your friend is having.

January 10th, 2004, 02:23 PM	#3
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	What kind of project is this? A multicamera shoot?

January 10th, 2004, 02:51 PM	#4
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	we edited a project that at times was 3 - 4 hrs (vegas TL). the computer had 500gigs of video h.drives plus 80 gig C ... it was a little sluggish moving around the TL when we hit above 3 hrs. that could have been the computer and not vegas ? as it had 384 mgs ram .. the other factor might have been all our material was captured as 13 gig file ( each tape) so vegas was accessing/had open 400+ gig of files all the time ... we found that cutting the project in 1/2 solved the sluggish .... since then on long projects ( 1 hr or more ) we edit it in 15-30 min segments ... then render these off and put them together in 1 vegas to view whole project - then go back to each segment to make changes ...

January 10th, 2004, 05:21 PM	#5
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	The only issues I have had with Vegas doing long form (and thats all I do) is the bin issues already discussed here and elsewhere---other then that, its rock solid.

January 10th, 2004, 10:08 PM	#7
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I'm currently working on a 3 hour 3 camera shoot. Vegas is handling it with ease. After cutting it down, the final print to tape will be 2 hours (1 vhs max)

January 11th, 2004, 12:26 AM	#9
Michael Estepp Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 95	I dont understand this whole region thing. I never ever use the trimmer... its not as simple as throwing a clip on the time line and hitting "s" to slice it up. The trimmer doesn't seem to be as extensive as it should.... the only options it has is that you can start a clip from cursor position or end it there. maybe Im missing some options. I dont know, but I dont understand the region thing.

January 11th, 2004, 02:48 PM	#12
Harry Settle Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bemidji, MN Posts: 276	Two Hour project. . . no sweat for Vegas. __________________ "DOH"!!!

January 11th, 2004, 07:57 PM	#13
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Douglas, are you saying more people just chuck the whole clip on the timeline and trim from that? I generally use the trimmer but then often I have loooong clips. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

January 11th, 2004, 08:06 PM	#14
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	I don't know about 'more' people, but this is a common way that newer-comers to video editing seem to be doing it. If they don't have a background in working with source tapes and linear editing systems, the workflow isn't quite as natural to them. I see guys all the time that throw a one-hour event on the timeline, use the "S" key to split sections out, toss what they don't want from the TL, and them do a "Save As" and delete the original one-hour event/clip. Since I rarely have long clips like this, I generally use the trimmer for long, and use the timeline for shorter stuff. Beauty of it is, Vegas will allow for either (and more) workflows. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 11th, 2004, 10:48 PM	#15
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I'll admit to being one of the "timeline" people. I only use the trimmer when there is a specific reason to do so.