Bin Madness! at DVinfo.net

Josh Bass · December 30th, 2003, 12:58 PM

There's something up with my bins in Vegas 4. For some reason, it won't let me delete clips from any of the bins (except the all media bin, of course). Any time I try, it just does nothing. Also, all my bins have the same clips in them, even though they're not supposed to. I did recently have to reinstall Vegas, however--as I had the HD reformatted. Is there some setting or something I need to tweak in order to get things working right again?

Edward Troxel · December 30th, 2003, 01:18 PM

You'll probably need to start a new project in order to straighten out this one. You could open a second instance of Vegas and copy the entire timeline to the new project. You would then have to re-define the bins and their contents. Media Pool bins is a known weak area of Vegas 4.

Josh Bass · December 30th, 2003, 01:43 PM

When you say copy the timeline, you mean just select everything, copy and paste into another instance's timeline? Will it take all markers, envelopes, etc. with it?

Edward Troxel · December 30th, 2003, 01:54 PM

I can't guarantee "ALL". For instance track motion would not be initially copied but the keyframes CAN be copied afterwards en-masse per track.

The other thing you might try is to delete all of the sub-bins. Save the project as a new name, and then re-create the bins. Also cannot guarantee this will work.

Aaron Koolen · December 30th, 2003, 03:11 PM

Josh, Sorry can't offer any more help than what Edward has but I'm not surprised you're having problems. It's not just a weak problem with Vegas, it's actually, in my mind a severe bug that needs to be looked at. I did my LadyX episode in vegas, and had several bins with clips in them. By the time I'd finished the project, media clips had moved bins - no shit, totally moved and I couldn't find what I wanted. Unnacceptable and has seriously made me consider looking at another NLE before I get into my next project.

Aaron

Josh Bass · December 30th, 2003, 04:05 PM

Huh. . .did not know this. Was totally unaware. Well, isn't premiere pro supposed to be pretty kickass? I'm not going there yet, but if this had been a bigger project, could have been a huge headache.

Aaron Koolen · December 30th, 2003, 04:21 PM

I don't know much about Premiere Pro, but I did use premiere 6.5 (I think it was that version) for a while and I hated it. Very buggy. I have used AVID DV Xpress in the past and I do like it, I just couldn't afford to own my own copy.

Aaron

Edward Troxel · December 30th, 2003, 04:22 PM

Personally, I use the Explorer window as my "Media Bin". I can create as many folders as needed, move clips into those folders, and view it exactly the same in Windows Explorer. Using the Explorer window, the trimmer, and regions, you can also create "sub-clips" that can be viewed in the Explorer window. You may want to try that - you can be VERY organized that way.

Josh Bass · December 30th, 2003, 04:24 PM

Hmm. I will try it.

Randy Stewart · December 30th, 2003, 06:37 PM

Aaron,
Not sure this will be of value but here goes. One reason the clips may be moving is because when you modify the clip, it will store in whichever bin you have active (open) at the time. Typically, I have my captures added to a project when captured. I then go through and create bins and drag as appropriate. Beginning the edit, I'll go to the bin and start dragging to the timeline and edit the event there. However, during my editing of the events, I'll add titles, music, backdrops etc. all of which will end up in the last active bin that I pull my event from. At the end of each session, I'll go back and drag my titles, music, etc. to separate bins. What I have to watch for is if I have revised a clip (size, pan/crop, etc.) that was in a previous bin, it will store in the bin I have active at the time. Now the good news is that everything is really in one place (bins are just pointers right) so you can find the clip but it's definitely aggravating when the clip moves without you knowing it. I've tried to remember to make sure I'm done messing with the clip before I leave the bin but usually that's not pratical. Anyway, hope this helps. I'm not dealing with the volume you guys are. I rarely have more than 200 items in my bins.
Aloha,
Randy

Aaron Koolen · December 30th, 2003, 07:30 PM

Randy, that could very well explain what happened to me. I was using pan/crop and things like that on my clips. Thanks for the tip.

Edward, how can using regions allow you to make and play subclips?

Cheers
Aaron

Edward Troxel · December 30th, 2003, 08:06 PM

Yes, the regions added in the trimmer and saved show and act like sub-clips when viewed in the Explorer screen. You do have to change from the default view in order to see the saved regions.

There's multiple steps involved:

1) Open a clip in the trimmer
2) Create and name regions in the trimmer
3) SAVE the regions (button on the trimmer)
4) Change the Explorer view to show the saved regions.

Now you can use the regions as sub-clips.

Aaron Koolen · December 30th, 2003, 10:33 PM

Edward, that's quite helpful and about as good as Vegas will do, without handling real subclips, but and organising them through the Explorer I think is going to be far superior.

Thanks
Aaron

Edward Troxel · December 30th, 2003, 10:49 PM

Yes, the region view is very easy to overlook. The only time I go to the Media Pool is to determine the number of times a clip has been used.

David Mintzer · December 30th, 2003, 11:27 PM

Sorry to tell you that it is a known bug in Vegas that many have complained about--seems to occur on projects with multiple bins and many clips---It was brought to the attention of the people at Sony--in fact one poster from that forum sent a drive along so they could try to reproduce the problem in the Wisconsin---Unfortunately they couldn't--like that proverbial squeak in the dashboard of the car.

Beyond that, media management is still not the most elegant in Vegas and I do expect them to address the issue with version 5.0.

December 30th, 2003, 12:58 PM	#1
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Bin Madness! There's something up with my bins in Vegas 4. For some reason, it won't let me delete clips from any of the bins (except the all media bin, of course). Any time I try, it just does nothing. Also, all my bins have the same clips in them, even though they're not supposed to. I did recently have to reinstall Vegas, however--as I had the HD reformatted. Is there some setting or something I need to tweak in order to get things working right again? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

December 30th, 2003, 01:43 PM	#3
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	When you say copy the timeline, you mean just select everything, copy and paste into another instance's timeline? Will it take all markers, envelopes, etc. with it? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

December 30th, 2003, 03:11 PM	#5
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Josh, Sorry can't offer any more help than what Edward has but I'm not surprised you're having problems. It's not just a weak problem with Vegas, it's actually, in my mind a severe bug that needs to be looked at. I did my LadyX episode in vegas, and had several bins with clips in them. By the time I'd finished the project, media clips had moved bins - no shit, totally moved and I couldn't find what I wanted. Unnacceptable and has seriously made me consider looking at another NLE before I get into my next project. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

December 30th, 2003, 04:05 PM	#6
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Huh. . .did not know this. Was totally unaware. Well, isn't premiere pro supposed to be pretty kickass? I'm not going there yet, but if this had been a bigger project, could have been a huge headache. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

December 30th, 2003, 04:21 PM	#7
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	I don't know much about Premiere Pro, but I did use premiere 6.5 (I think it was that version) for a while and I hated it. Very buggy. I have used AVID DV Xpress in the past and I do like it, I just couldn't afford to own my own copy. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

December 30th, 2003, 01:18 PM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	You'll probably need to start a new project in order to straighten out this one. You could open a second instance of Vegas and copy the entire timeline to the new project. You would then have to re-define the bins and their contents. Media Pool bins is a known weak area of Vegas 4.

December 30th, 2003, 01:54 PM	#4
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I can't guarantee "ALL". For instance track motion would not be initially copied but the keyframes CAN be copied afterwards en-masse per track. The other thing you might try is to delete all of the sub-bins. Save the project as a new name, and then re-create the bins. Also cannot guarantee this will work.

December 30th, 2003, 04:22 PM	#8
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Personally, I use the Explorer window as my "Media Bin". I can create as many folders as needed, move clips into those folders, and view it exactly the same in Windows Explorer. Using the Explorer window, the trimmer, and regions, you can also create "sub-clips" that can be viewed in the Explorer window. You may want to try that - you can be VERY organized that way.

December 30th, 2003, 04:24 PM	#9
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Hmm. I will try it. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

December 30th, 2003, 06:37 PM	#10
Randy Stewart Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hooper, UT Posts: 177	Aaron, Not sure this will be of value but here goes. One reason the clips may be moving is because when you modify the clip, it will store in whichever bin you have active (open) at the time. Typically, I have my captures added to a project when captured. I then go through and create bins and drag as appropriate. Beginning the edit, I'll go to the bin and start dragging to the timeline and edit the event there. However, during my editing of the events, I'll add titles, music, backdrops etc. all of which will end up in the last active bin that I pull my event from. At the end of each session, I'll go back and drag my titles, music, etc. to separate bins. What I have to watch for is if I have revised a clip (size, pan/crop, etc.) that was in a previous bin, it will store in the bin I have active at the time. Now the good news is that everything is really in one place (bins are just pointers right) so you can find the clip but it's definitely aggravating when the clip moves without you knowing it. I've tried to remember to make sure I'm done messing with the clip before I leave the bin but usually that's not pratical. Anyway, hope this helps. I'm not dealing with the volume you guys are. I rarely have more than 200 items in my bins. Aloha, Randy

December 30th, 2003, 07:30 PM	#11
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Randy, that could very well explain what happened to me. I was using pan/crop and things like that on my clips. Thanks for the tip. Edward, how can using regions allow you to make and play subclips? Cheers Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

December 30th, 2003, 08:06 PM	#12
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Yes, the regions added in the trimmer and saved show and act like sub-clips when viewed in the Explorer screen. You do have to change from the default view in order to see the saved regions. There's multiple steps involved: 1) Open a clip in the trimmer 2) Create and name regions in the trimmer 3) SAVE the regions (button on the trimmer) 4) Change the Explorer view to show the saved regions. Now you can use the regions as sub-clips.

December 30th, 2003, 10:33 PM	#13
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Edward, that's quite helpful and about as good as Vegas will do, without handling real subclips, but and organising them through the Explorer I think is going to be far superior. Thanks Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

December 30th, 2003, 10:49 PM	#14
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Yes, the region view is very easy to overlook. The only time I go to the Media Pool is to determine the number of times a clip has been used.

December 30th, 2003, 11:27 PM	#15
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	Sorry to tell you that it is a known bug in Vegas that many have complained about--seems to occur on projects with multiple bins and many clips---It was brought to the attention of the people at Sony--in fact one poster from that forum sent a drive along so they could try to reproduce the problem in the Wisconsin---Unfortunately they couldn't--like that proverbial squeak in the dashboard of the car. Beyond that, media management is still not the most elegant in Vegas and I do expect them to address the issue with version 5.0.