Partitioning NLE for Vegas at DVinfo.net

Ricky Kua · April 10th, 2009, 07:37 PM

Hi, I'm noobies in video editing world. I need some help.

currently my 2 NLE machine specs are

Dual Quad Core X5473 3.0GHz
12MB L2 cache
16GB 800MHz ECC Quad-channel DDR2 Fully buffered DIMM
512MB PCIe x16 ATI FireGL V7600
4 x 300GB 15k RPM SAS HDD
2 x 24" DELL 2408WFP LCD Monitor

I've tested out the performance for RAID 0 and 1.
Striping 4 HDD give me the highest performance.
I need some advices here. I"m still not sure how should i partition my striped HDD.
Currently I partition it into 3, where
C is purely OS and pagefile,
D for dvd writer,
E for Sony vegas pro 8.1 64bit and sony dvd architect pro 5.0 with its temp dir,
F purely for recorded and finalised video files.
Is this the correct way?

part 2
Currently i'm still testing out the rendering performance, it seems like sony vegas pro 8.1 64bit uses my cpu usage to 45% only. Is there a way for me to boost it up to like 80%?
I need its rendering to be much faster because my university convocation DVD need to
be out in 12 hours time. Therefore i might only have 10 hours of editing time.
Any recommendation or suggestion?

John Gordon · April 10th, 2009, 11:34 PM

you can change the programs affinity to use more processors....

Ricky Kua · April 11th, 2009, 07:05 AM

yup, i've fiddled with the setting as well. i set the dynamic ram to 4GB and thread to 16.
Still its only run at top 45% CPU usage.

Don Bloom · April 11th, 2009, 09:44 AM

I don't understand why you don't have Vegas and DVDA on the C drive. THATS where programs should be. Put the programs on the same drive as the operating system but set your capture, edit and rendering folders to any of the other drives. Since these operations require both the system and the program to work together. I'm not saying this will get the CPU going at 95% but it will probably work better.

Jeff Harper · April 11th, 2009, 10:14 AM

Ricky, I'm thinking you have the right idea, but your layout is probably the least desirable way to do it.

A striped drive made up of any number of drives (two three or four, whatever) is the same as one drive. Your media files should never be on the same drive, especially on a partition that resides on the same drive as you OS. It is slower to put things on another partition that the OS needs to access. Your media files need to be on a different physical disc, not a partition on the same drive.

If you have four drives and really want to run raid 0, you should consider something like this:

2xRAID 0 for OS and all program files.

1x drive for media and for rendering.

1x drive for backup of your first media drive. If you do this for a living, you want to have a backup of all you media, IMO.

Many people believe a separate drive for rendering is best, but I find the difference minimal.

So if you believe you must have a separate drive for rendering use your last drive for that instead of backup. Personally I have four 1TB internal drives to store my weddings on, and four more discs that are copies of those drives. To me backup is much more important than having a separate rendering drive.

Actually, while raid is nice your drive are so fast that I believe they are wasted in RAID for your OS.

They way I would arrange your drives, if it were me:

1xOS (non-raid)
2 disc Raid 0 for your scratch drive (whatever media you are working on)
1 disc for storage.

Actually if you are stuck on using RAID for you OS, I would do the following:

2XRAID 0 for OS
2XRAID 0 for scratch drive

1x1TB drive for storage of original media files.
1X1tb drive for backup.

Jason Robinson · April 11th, 2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

Actually if you are stuck on using RAID for you OS, I would do the following:

2XRAID 0 for OS
2XRAID 0 for scratch drive

1x1TB drive for storage of original media files.
1X1tb drive for backup.

I'll second Jeff's suggestion. A RAID 0 for hte OS drive is pretty handy, but putting a 4x RAID 0 is useless AND actually slower (note, I have no specific evidence of this).

Put all your media files on a separate physical drive (partitions don't count) or on a separate array composed of separate physical drives.

I have noticed problems with a single drive being able to stream 3 DV streams for when I am cutting in multicam mode (that or the P4 chip couldn't keep up), so that is why I suggest a RAID for media storage.

As far as why the systems isnt' being used to the full 8 cores, that is a mystery for me. I have never used more than a Core 2 Duo, so I cannot speak to that. I have heard that lowering the cores to 8 might help (since 16 is too many). I have also heard that lowering the physical ram for preview might help.

Jason Robinson · April 11th, 2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom

I don't understand why you don't have Vegas and DVDA on the C drive. THATS where programs should be. Put the programs on the same drive as the operating system but set your capture, edit and rendering folders to any of the other drives. Since these operations require both the system and the program to work together. I'm not saying this will get the CPU going at 95% but it will probably work better.

Another good point. There is no reason to install your applications to a different partition. Put them all on C.

Jeff Harper · April 11th, 2009, 01:57 PM

Actually Jason, 4x 0 raid is not slower, it is definitely fast, very fast. The more discs you use the faster RAID 0 is. Each disc you add to the array increases the speed. In his case it is the partioning, as you and I have pointed out that is not good for his purposes.

Jason Robinson · April 11th, 2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

Actually Jason, 4x 0 raid is not slower, it is definitely fast, very fast. The more discs you use the faster RAID 0 is. Each disc you add to the array increases the speed. In his case it is the partioning, as you and I have pointed out that is not good for his purposes.

I shoudl clarify, I was tryign to say that usign only 4x raid 0 instead of the partitioning suggest above is slower overall. the 4x raid will get fast access times, but is not idea for a NLE setup. Now for a server runnign a big database, a 4x raid would be great since database apps like MySQL will use lots of IO bandwidth and a 4x RAID 0 will be great on them. but since NLE work required sustained, continuous, and (most importantly) sequential disc access, a 4x is not ideal.

But I shoudl also be a bit mroe clear when I type a reply real fast. :-)

Jack Bellford · April 11th, 2009, 05:14 PM

Unless you're dealing with uncompressed material from something like a capture from the black magic intensity card... then RAID of any kind is drastic over kill.

Straight normal drives will work fine.

As for cpu usage... this all completely depends on what you're rendering and how you're rendering it.

Your Dynamic ram is set WAY too high. The only time you need it set that high is when you're actually using it... and you're not when you are rendering. Dynamic ram is used to assist in smooth time line playback only. When rendering cut the D ram back to around 512M. The higher the D ram is when rendering.... the more you force Vegas to use page file.

Your program files (Vegas and DVDa) should be on c drive (non raid), set up a capture drive, as well as a separate render drive. Your page file should also be on a separate drive.

Ricky Kua · April 11th, 2009, 06:52 PM

Thanks guys, since today is sunday, i cant do much cause my machine is in the office, so i'm collecting info for tomorrow big changeover.

Its my bad if i havent give ya guys all the details yet, basically i'm using this 2 machine for yearly university graduation event recording.

My boss like video stuffs therefore he bought all this for "me" to play. yup not him but me.
CUrrently my final setup would be a

Datavideo SE800DV with 4 panasonic DVX100 firewire input for record and
firewire output to firewire hub, which then connected to a Datavideo HDD recorder and
the NLE machine with subsequently using firewire connection to vegas to capture everything.
then come this final part which is the editing. Thats why i'm asking what should be the best configuration for this NLE workstation.

The convocation is on 19th of April and i have another issue with the SE800 output to broadcast to all the students with 2 projectors.
Since SE800 only have firewire output as digital the rest are analog output which result in low quality broadcast.

I guess the configuration is still the same right?
BTW you guys have been very helpful and thanks.

Jeff Harper · April 11th, 2009, 07:52 PM

Jack, it is true that having the page file on a separate drive is nice. On the other hand, I don't think with his limited number of drives it is necessary.

Mike Kujbida · April 11th, 2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky Kua

The convocation is on 19th of April and i have another issue with the SE800 output to broadcast to all the students with 2 projectors.
Since SE800 only have firewire output as digital the rest are analog output which result in low quality broadcast.

Ricky, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using the analog ouptuts from your switcher.
I do convocation ceremonies for my local community college with a switcher that's not as good as yours and I'm quite pleased with the results.
Besides recording it, I feed the video to an overflow room that's at least 200 ft. away from where the switcher is.
The key here is to use good double-shielded coaxial cable (Belden #8281 is what I use).
If you have a TV station nearby, ask one of the engineers what kind of coax they use and by a roll of the same type.
If it's in your budget, get a portable video equalizing amp.
This device (installed at the far end of the cable run) allows you to boost the signal to compensate for the loss that you'll get in long cable runs.

Ricky Kua · April 11th, 2009, 11:13 PM

Thank you guys, learn a lot today.

Mike, i'll try out your advise with DS Coax, cause my current issue includes the splitting of video resulted in low quality which can be solved by your video equalizer amp. The other problem would be those humming lines, not sure though can this be solve by your ds coax.
Anyway i'll try it out tomorrow.

As for my NLE workstation, basically i have to put OS, Sony Vegas and DVDa into C drive.
Another hdd for rendering. And RAID0 last 2 hdd for capturing and storing purposes.
Sorry for asking this noob question, when you guys said rendering means the moment i press
render to a specific folder, right? How about vegas temp folder and dvda temp folder and os pagefile? everything in C drive is ok?

Mike Kujbida · April 12th, 2009, 12:23 AM

Ricky, if you want to split video, it really should be done with a video distribution amp.
Hum on a video line can be (almost completely) cured with a device called a humbucking coil.
WIth both of these devices, you get what you pay for so don't go cheap as it may cause even more problems.

April 10th, 2009, 07:37 PM	#1
Ricky Kua New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Kuala Lumpur Malaysia Posts: 6	Partitioning NLE for Vegas Hi, I'm noobies in video editing world. I need some help. currently my 2 NLE machine specs are Dual Quad Core X5473 3.0GHz 12MB L2 cache 16GB 800MHz ECC Quad-channel DDR2 Fully buffered DIMM 512MB PCIe x16 ATI FireGL V7600 4 x 300GB 15k RPM SAS HDD 2 x 24" DELL 2408WFP LCD Monitor I've tested out the performance for RAID 0 and 1. Striping 4 HDD give me the highest performance. I need some advices here. I"m still not sure how should i partition my striped HDD. Currently I partition it into 3, where C is purely OS and pagefile, D for dvd writer, E for Sony vegas pro 8.1 64bit and sony dvd architect pro 5.0 with its temp dir, F purely for recorded and finalised video files. Is this the correct way? part 2 Currently i'm still testing out the rendering performance, it seems like sony vegas pro 8.1 64bit uses my cpu usage to 45% only. Is there a way for me to boost it up to like 80%? I need its rendering to be much faster because my university convocation DVD need to be out in 12 hours time. Therefore i might only have 10 hours of editing time. Any recommendation or suggestion?

April 11th, 2009, 09:44 AM	#4
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	I don't understand why you don't have Vegas and DVDA on the C drive. THATS where programs should be. Put the programs on the same drive as the operating system but set your capture, edit and rendering folders to any of the other drives. Since these operations require both the system and the program to work together. I'm not saying this will get the CPU going at 95% but it will probably work better. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

April 10th, 2009, 11:34 PM	#2
John Gordon New Boot Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia Posts: 15	you can change the programs affinity to use more processors....

April 11th, 2009, 07:05 AM	#3
Ricky Kua New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Kuala Lumpur Malaysia Posts: 6	yup, i've fiddled with the setting as well. i set the dynamic ram to 4GB and thread to 16. Still its only run at top 45% CPU usage.

April 11th, 2009, 10:14 AM	#5
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Ricky, I'm thinking you have the right idea, but your layout is probably the least desirable way to do it. A striped drive made up of any number of drives (two three or four, whatever) is the same as one drive. Your media files should never be on the same drive, especially on a partition that resides on the same drive as you OS. It is slower to put things on another partition that the OS needs to access. Your media files need to be on a different physical disc, not a partition on the same drive. If you have four drives and really want to run raid 0, you should consider something like this: 2xRAID 0 for OS and all program files. 1x drive for media and for rendering. 1x drive for backup of your first media drive. If you do this for a living, you want to have a backup of all you media, IMO. Many people believe a separate drive for rendering is best, but I find the difference minimal. So if you believe you must have a separate drive for rendering use your last drive for that instead of backup. Personally I have four 1TB internal drives to store my weddings on, and four more discs that are copies of those drives. To me backup is much more important than having a separate rendering drive. Actually, while raid is nice your drive are so fast that I believe they are wasted in RAID for your OS. They way I would arrange your drives, if it were me: 1xOS (non-raid) 2 disc Raid 0 for your scratch drive (whatever media you are working on) 1 disc for storage. Actually if you are stuck on using RAID for you OS, I would do the following: 2XRAID 0 for OS 2XRAID 0 for scratch drive 1x1TB drive for storage of original media files. 1X1tb drive for backup.

April 11th, 2009, 01:57 PM	#8
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Actually Jason, 4x 0 raid is not slower, it is definitely fast, very fast. The more discs you use the faster RAID 0 is. Each disc you add to the array increases the speed. In his case it is the partioning, as you and I have pointed out that is not good for his purposes.

April 11th, 2009, 05:14 PM	#10
Jack Bellford Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Winnipeg Canada Posts: 68	Unless you're dealing with uncompressed material from something like a capture from the black magic intensity card... then RAID of any kind is drastic over kill. Straight normal drives will work fine. As for cpu usage... this all completely depends on what you're rendering and how you're rendering it. Your Dynamic ram is set WAY too high. The only time you need it set that high is when you're actually using it... and you're not when you are rendering. Dynamic ram is used to assist in smooth time line playback only. When rendering cut the D ram back to around 512M. The higher the D ram is when rendering.... the more you force Vegas to use page file. Your program files (Vegas and DVDa) should be on c drive (non raid), set up a capture drive, as well as a separate render drive. Your page file should also be on a separate drive.

April 11th, 2009, 06:52 PM	#11
Ricky Kua New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Kuala Lumpur Malaysia Posts: 6	Thanks guys, since today is sunday, i cant do much cause my machine is in the office, so i'm collecting info for tomorrow big changeover. Its my bad if i havent give ya guys all the details yet, basically i'm using this 2 machine for yearly university graduation event recording. My boss like video stuffs therefore he bought all this for "me" to play. yup not him but me. CUrrently my final setup would be a Datavideo SE800DV with 4 panasonic DVX100 firewire input for record and firewire output to firewire hub, which then connected to a Datavideo HDD recorder and the NLE machine with subsequently using firewire connection to vegas to capture everything. then come this final part which is the editing. Thats why i'm asking what should be the best configuration for this NLE workstation. The convocation is on 19th of April and i have another issue with the SE800 output to broadcast to all the students with 2 projectors. Since SE800 only have firewire output as digital the rest are analog output which result in low quality broadcast. I guess the configuration is still the same right? BTW you guys have been very helpful and thanks.

April 11th, 2009, 07:52 PM	#12
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Jack, it is true that having the page file on a separate drive is nice. On the other hand, I don't think with his limited number of drives it is necessary.

April 11th, 2009, 11:13 PM	#14
Ricky Kua New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Kuala Lumpur Malaysia Posts: 6	Thank you guys, learn a lot today. Mike, i'll try out your advise with DS Coax, cause my current issue includes the splitting of video resulted in low quality which can be solved by your video equalizer amp. The other problem would be those humming lines, not sure though can this be solve by your ds coax. Anyway i'll try it out tomorrow. As for my NLE workstation, basically i have to put OS, Sony Vegas and DVDa into C drive. Another hdd for rendering. And RAID0 last 2 hdd for capturing and storing purposes. Sorry for asking this noob question, when you guys said rendering means the moment i press render to a specific folder, right? How about vegas temp folder and dvda temp folder and os pagefile? everything in C drive is ok?

April 12th, 2009, 12:23 AM	#15
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Ricky, if you want to split video, it really should be done with a video distribution amp. Hum on a video line can be (almost completely) cured with a device called a humbucking coil. WIth both of these devices, you get what you pay for so don't go cheap as it may cause even more problems.