Vegas Video discussions from 2004 (Q1Q2)

Andreas Fernbrant · March 25th, 2004, 05:28 PM

Would not the DV PRO -SDI thing mean I loose some resolution?

How hard would it be to get the Digibeta video to uncompressed video on a hardrive? Is this uncommon?

Anydrawbacks in going for a uncompressed solution in Vegas?

Don Donatello · March 25th, 2004, 05:49 PM

you might look at blackmagic decklink products ( now has direct show support ) ..
not sure but i think if you capture with it's PCI hardware /software ?? -

well once clips on on your computer i know you can then use Vegas to edit the clips ...

you could edit the 4:2:2 clips or
make a dv.avi copy of them ... you then edit using the dv clips .. when you are finished editing you then HIDE the dv clips and when Vegas tells you it can't find them you lead it to the digibeta clips ..

you then render using the blackmagic 4:2:2 codec .. then use the decklinks hardware/software ?? to go back to digibeta ...

http://www.decklink.com/productsdeckhd.asp

Sunny Dhinsey · March 26th, 2004, 06:15 AM

Thanks for the response.

Yes I was referring to the CTRL-Drag method and was aware that you can use that in conjunction with the Velocity envelopes, I just thought there may be another way to do the time-lapse (i.e specifying to delete a certain amount of frames etc) but I guess it works fine!

Sorry for my obscure explanation of the simple process!

Peter Moore · March 26th, 2004, 06:19 AM

Well, VirtualDub will do it, but Vegas will not. The good news is the results are quite good.

Edward Troxel · March 26th, 2004, 08:21 AM

Well, there IS another option (if you want to recapture). Take a look a Scenalyzer Live - it has an option for capturing 1 every n frames.

Chris Hendrick · March 26th, 2004, 08:50 AM

Decklink is a great idea!

Vegas should work great with SDI uncompressed video. I have heard of people doing HD projects in Vegas on a Laptop.

So aa good fast machine should support your SD video wonderfully.

Chris

Elton Wishart · March 26th, 2004, 09:11 AM

I created a mask in order to lay one image over another. However, everything after the mask plays as black in the preview window, even though there is still video remaining in the parent track of the timeline. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

Jamison Olivieri · March 26th, 2004, 09:12 AM

Recently i was editing a video wit extensive affects and key frames in it. I filmed a whole other sequence loaded it onto my computer and went into a new project. I did ALOT of work on that piece but i have encountered a problem. How do i get that piece of the movie onto my original project. I already tried copying, exting, and then getting into my original project but it will not let me paste it. What do i do because i don't want to loose what i edited and start all over again.

Edward Troxel · March 26th, 2004, 09:40 AM

Copy and paste will work but you have to do it differently. Open Vegas and load the "destination" project. Now Open ANOTHER copy of Vegas and load the "source" project. Select what you want copied, copy it, move to the first instance of Vegas, and paste. This should work.

One thing I frequently do is work on sections in different projects, render each section separately, and then compile a final project consisting of those sections.

Edward Troxel · March 26th, 2004, 09:42 AM

I'm assuming the tracks have a Parent/Child relationship turned on. Just create another video track and move everything after that mask to the new track. All should be fine.

Edward Troxel · March 26th, 2004, 09:44 AM

Satish has just announce his new "Wax" tool. Here's the info:

Wax 2.0a for Vegas has been released and is available at http://www.debugmode.com/wax/ . Wax can work as a standalone app as well as a plugin for Vegas to create advanced 3D and 2D effects including 3D text, rotoscoping, use 3D models, particles etc.

Wax is the next generation of the PluginPac plugins. You can still use PluginPac and Wax inside Vegas but with this Wax release PluginPac Plugins are phased out (except the FrameServer).

Features.
--------------

1) Use graphics acceleration available with your video card for preview as well as render

2) 2D and 3D Plugins and transitions for creating effects. Full featured 3D compositing with 3d objects, lighting, shadows, texture generators, etc. Plugins include the following...

---- RotoMate - rotoscope/paint over video with fully keyframmable shapes and masks
---- Shatter - create explosive effects
---- ModelLoader - load 3d models from .3DS, .MD2 and .MS3d files
---- Particle Generator - generate various natural particle effects like fire, smoke, rain etc
---- Text 3D - create extruded/beveled 3D text, and much more...

3) Has native support for Plugin Adapter technology - can load and use VirtualDub filters, DirectX plugins and Windows ® Movie Maker presets inside Wax (inside Vegas when you use Wax as a plugin with Vegas)

4) Compatible with Vegas 3, 4, and the upcoming 5.

Wax comes with sample projects (created using Vegas 4) and a UserGuide. Please view them before starting to use.

Richard Alvarez · March 26th, 2004, 09:50 AM

You will need an edl and frame match software if you plan to conform the film negative. Don't know if Vegas does that or not. This can be done with Avid or FCP. If you don't plan on conforming the negative, but just outputting the transfer... not a problem.

Jim Lafferty · March 26th, 2004, 10:10 AM

Vegas does EDL, it's a script. So, if you don't have it already, you're going to need first the .NET framework from Microsoft, then the script, and then an understanding of how to generate an EDL and what it's good for.

Vegas EDL's are cuts only, which really isn't all that bad considering little else translates well. Or, so I'm told.

Vegas does SD/HD at 4-6fps on the timeline, but you can use a proxy file to edit in real-time, then match back all your cuts/FX at render time. You're going to need to learn about frame-serving and proxy files.

BJ_M and DSE over at the DMN forums will be your best bet for finding out all the dirty details -- do a keyword search under their names with words like "SD," "HD," "frame serve" and "EDL" and you'll dig up a lot of info to begin with. (edit: I just asked your question for you, as I'm very interested in tightening up my knowledge in this area)

On that note, here's something that might be of relevance -- a quote from BJ_M:

a transport stream explained in depth here: http://computermodules.com/broadcast...t-stream.shtml
as for editing it - well not directly.. you can convert it to a program stream or you can frame serve it or you can demultiplex it and frame serve it or demultiplex it and convert it to program stream .. often it contains 1 or more audio stream (and can contain several video streams) - the audio would have to be converted to other than ac3 and you would (if more than 1 stream) have to break out the streams .
all the above is not to hard if you have the right tools.. (i do it)
in vegas - ALL mpeg editing requires re-encoding ..
HD can be 8 or 10 bit (or in some cases more with wavelet compression) .. The "standards" with HD is that there is no standards per say on frame rates, resolution , data rates , GOP structure (in the case of interframe type encoding (wmv9 and mpeg) , delivery method, storage methods, and on and on (including i might add: aspect and pixel ratios), even major broadcasters don't use the same methods and formats...
there are generally accepted common standards that are used for HD and also (in the case of brodcasting - agreed upon (somewhat)formats and guidlines (see links below for astc org), but myself and others (more in the film industry), don't really follow them (for the most part) as they are to restrictive and not related to the D-Cinema that i am involved with (D-cinema means less than even High Def. and is more a marketing term that anything else IMO) ..

Here's a link to a program that generates transport streams:

http://www.lilapple.com/products/mp2tsms.htm

Good luck -- and please return and tell us how things go!

- jim

Don Donatello · March 26th, 2004, 11:55 AM

i don't see any need for a EDL for film matchback .. the original poster has stated the short is being shot on DIGIBETA

his 2nd project (music video ) is being shot on super 16 but again it's DIGIBETA as master not back to film ...

Brian Munt · March 26th, 2004, 12:14 PM

I am new to the whole video scene. Purchaced a Canon GL2 in December and shot some ice fishing footage in the cameas standard mode. Nothing fancy. I think the camera shoots in 29.97 mode, am I correct. Now I am using Vegas 4.0 for editing and simple cropping and titles. When I start a new project and import the media from the camera which preference settings would I use.
The first one I did I set the preferences to NTSC DV (720x480, 29.970 fps) and the frame rate to 29.970 (NTSC). From some of the reading I have been doing on this forum should I have set the preferences to NTSC DV 24p (720x480, 23.976 fps) with a frame rate of 23.976 (IVTC Film).
The problem I had with the first project was when I printed back to the DV Tape from the timeline I got some frames that were dropped and audio blurps and a bit jittery in spots. Everything looks good in the editing stage but printing back to tape is giving me trouble. So basically what I need to know is what preferences in Vegas should be used for regular footage shot with the Canon GL2.

Any help appreciated.

March 26th, 2004, 06:15 AM	#978
Sunny Dhinsey Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, England Posts: 127	Thanks for the response. Yes I was referring to the CTRL-Drag method and was aware that you can use that in conjunction with the Velocity envelopes, I just thought there may be another way to do the time-lapse (i.e specifying to delete a certain amount of frames etc) but I guess it works fine! Sorry for my obscure explanation of the simple process! __________________ Sunny Dhinsey Director - www.filmlore.tv

March 26th, 2004, 09:11 AM	#982
Elton Wishart New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bristol, CT Posts: 20	Overlay question I created a mask in order to lay one image over another. However, everything after the mask plays as black in the preview window, even though there is still video remaining in the parent track of the timeline. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

March 26th, 2004, 09:12 AM	#983
Jamison Olivieri Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: CA Posts: 50	Problem With Vegas Recently i was editing a video wit extensive affects and key frames in it. I filmed a whole other sequence loaded it onto my computer and went into a new project. I did ALOT of work on that piece but i have encountered a problem. How do i get that piece of the movie onto my original project. I already tried copying, exting, and then getting into my original project but it will not let me paste it. What do i do because i don't want to loose what i edited and start all over again.

March 26th, 2004, 09:44 AM	#986
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	New Tool from Satish Satish has just announce his new "Wax" tool. Here's the info: Wax 2.0a for Vegas has been released and is available at http://www.debugmode.com/wax/ . Wax can work as a standalone app as well as a plugin for Vegas to create advanced 3D and 2D effects including 3D text, rotoscoping, use 3D models, particles etc. Wax is the next generation of the PluginPac plugins. You can still use PluginPac and Wax inside Vegas but with this Wax release PluginPac Plugins are phased out (except the FrameServer). Features. -------------- 1) Use graphics acceleration available with your video card for preview as well as render 2) 2D and 3D Plugins and transitions for creating effects. Full featured 3D compositing with 3d objects, lighting, shadows, texture generators, etc. Plugins include the following... ---- RotoMate - rotoscope/paint over video with fully keyframmable shapes and masks ---- Shatter - create explosive effects ---- ModelLoader - load 3d models from .3DS, .MD2 and .MS3d files ---- Particle Generator - generate various natural particle effects like fire, smoke, rain etc ---- Text 3D - create extruded/beveled 3D text, and much more... 3) Has native support for Plugin Adapter technology - can load and use VirtualDub filters, DirectX plugins and Windows ® Movie Maker presets inside Wax (inside Vegas when you use Wax as a plugin with Vegas) 4) Compatible with Vegas 3, 4, and the upcoming 5. Wax comes with sample projects (created using Vegas 4) and a UserGuide. Please view them before starting to use.

March 26th, 2004, 10:10 AM	#988
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Vegas does EDL, it's a script. So, if you don't have it already, you're going to need first the .NET framework from Microsoft, then the script, and then an understanding of how to generate an EDL and what it's good for. Vegas EDL's are cuts only, which really isn't all that bad considering little else translates well. Or, so I'm told. Vegas does SD/HD at 4-6fps on the timeline, but you can use a proxy file to edit in real-time, then match back all your cuts/FX at render time. You're going to need to learn about frame-serving and proxy files. BJ_M and DSE over at the DMN forums will be your best bet for finding out all the dirty details -- do a keyword search under their names with words like "SD," "HD," "frame serve" and "EDL" and you'll dig up a lot of info to begin with. (edit: I just asked your question for you, as I'm very interested in tightening up my knowledge in this area) On that note, here's something that might be of relevance -- a quote from BJ_M: a transport stream explained in depth here: http://computermodules.com/broadcast...t-stream.shtml as for editing it - well not directly.. you can convert it to a program stream or you can frame serve it or you can demultiplex it and frame serve it or demultiplex it and convert it to program stream .. often it contains 1 or more audio stream (and can contain several video streams) - the audio would have to be converted to other than ac3 and you would (if more than 1 stream) have to break out the streams . all the above is not to hard if you have the right tools.. (i do it) in vegas - ALL mpeg editing requires re-encoding .. HD can be 8 or 10 bit (or in some cases more with wavelet compression) .. The "standards" with HD is that there is no standards per say on frame rates, resolution , data rates , GOP structure (in the case of interframe type encoding (wmv9 and mpeg) , delivery method, storage methods, and on and on (including i might add: aspect and pixel ratios), even major broadcasters don't use the same methods and formats... there are generally accepted common standards that are used for HD and also (in the case of brodcasting - agreed upon (somewhat)formats and guidlines (see links below for astc org), but myself and others (more in the film industry), don't really follow them (for the most part) as they are to restrictive and not related to the D-Cinema that i am involved with (D-cinema means less than even High Def. and is more a marketing term that anything else IMO) .. Here's a link to a program that generates transport streams: http://www.lilapple.com/products/mp2tsms.htm Good luck -- and please return and tell us how things go! - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

March 25th, 2004, 05:28 PM	#976
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Would not the DV PRO -SDI thing mean I loose some resolution? How hard would it be to get the Digibeta video to uncompressed video on a hardrive? Is this uncommon? Anydrawbacks in going for a uncompressed solution in Vegas?

March 25th, 2004, 05:49 PM	#977
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	you might look at blackmagic decklink products ( now has direct show support ) .. not sure but i think if you capture with it's PCI hardware /software ?? - well once clips on on your computer i know you can then use Vegas to edit the clips ... you could edit the 4:2:2 clips or make a dv.avi copy of them ... you then edit using the dv clips .. when you are finished editing you then HIDE the dv clips and when Vegas tells you it can't find them you lead it to the digibeta clips .. you then render using the blackmagic 4:2:2 codec .. then use the decklinks hardware/software ?? to go back to digibeta ... http://www.decklink.com/productsdeckhd.asp

March 26th, 2004, 06:19 AM	#979
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Well, VirtualDub will do it, but Vegas will not. The good news is the results are quite good.

March 26th, 2004, 08:21 AM	#980
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Well, there IS another option (if you want to recapture). Take a look a Scenalyzer Live - it has an option for capturing 1 every n frames.

March 26th, 2004, 08:50 AM	#981
Chris Hendrick New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NY Posts: 21	Decklink is a great idea! Vegas should work great with SDI uncompressed video. I have heard of people doing HD projects in Vegas on a Laptop. So aa good fast machine should support your SD video wonderfully. Chris

March 26th, 2004, 09:40 AM	#984
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Copy and paste will work but you have to do it differently. Open Vegas and load the "destination" project. Now Open ANOTHER copy of Vegas and load the "source" project. Select what you want copied, copy it, move to the first instance of Vegas, and paste. This should work. One thing I frequently do is work on sections in different projects, render each section separately, and then compile a final project consisting of those sections.

March 26th, 2004, 09:42 AM	#985
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I'm assuming the tracks have a Parent/Child relationship turned on. Just create another video track and move everything after that mask to the new track. All should be fine.

March 26th, 2004, 09:50 AM	#987
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	You will need an edl and frame match software if you plan to conform the film negative. Don't know if Vegas does that or not. This can be done with Avid or FCP. If you don't plan on conforming the negative, but just outputting the transfer... not a problem.

March 26th, 2004, 11:55 AM	#989
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	i don't see any need for a EDL for film matchback .. the original poster has stated the short is being shot on DIGIBETA his 2nd project (music video ) is being shot on super 16 but again it's DIGIBETA as master not back to film ...

March 26th, 2004, 12:14 PM	#990
Brian Munt New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Prince George, B.C. Canada Posts: 10	New Guy: Confused I am new to the whole video scene. Purchaced a Canon GL2 in December and shot some ice fishing footage in the cameas standard mode. Nothing fancy. I think the camera shoots in 29.97 mode, am I correct. Now I am using Vegas 4.0 for editing and simple cropping and titles. When I start a new project and import the media from the camera which preference settings would I use. The first one I did I set the preferences to NTSC DV (720x480, 29.970 fps) and the frame rate to 29.970 (NTSC). From some of the reading I have been doing on this forum should I have set the preferences to NTSC DV 24p (720x480, 23.976 fps) with a frame rate of 23.976 (IVTC Film). The problem I had with the first project was when I printed back to the DV Tape from the timeline I got some frames that were dropped and audio blurps and a bit jittery in spots. Everything looks good in the editing stage but printing back to tape is giving me trouble. So basically what I need to know is what preferences in Vegas should be used for regular footage shot with the Canon GL2. Any help appreciated.