Vegas Video discussions from 2004 (Q1Q2)

[Federico Dib]

Rob thanx for answering.

Since I posted I´ve been doing a lot of reading and even more of trial and error, and I´m getting much better results.

The 12 second sample is to be used on the Acoustic Mirror Plugin.. that, I think I´ve got cleared.

So step number 3 is duplicating the track I want to fix (the one with the bad echo), but my questions are:

Exactly when, and to which sound do I invert the phase?

But let me know what your friend tells you, since I might be having to fix a lot of sounds from a comedy night in a bar that doesn´t has a line out to plug my minidisc ?¿?.. and the echo is like being in a cave....

[Edward Troxel]

You will have to find some ways to mask those areas but be careful to not mask out the people when they walk in front of them.

[Michael Estepp]

Hello, Im making a DVD with a music video, and I want to include a high end photo album. Has anyone done this and has a procedure or template they would like to share?

Michael Estepp

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Just as a word of light caution, I once copy/pasted one of my own posts from the forum you refer to, I was threatened with copyright violation since they own copyright to what you post there.

>>>>>>>>>

On to the important stuff; for step 3, you make a copy of the bad track, and in Vegas, paste it/duplicate it below the original. Then invert phase. In Forge, you'd paste it in to the Clipboard after inverting phase.

You are inverting the original audio, so you've got 2 copies of the audio. One is original, the other is copy of original with inverted phase.

As far as moving by a wave form/sample...it's a matter of zooming in deep, seeing where the wave goes up and down on the two files. They should be going up and down at exact opposites since you've inverted the phase. then slide the inverted sample so that it is going up exactly when the original is going up. It takes some playing to get the blend just right.

Better thing to do in the end is record it correctly, if you can. If you are in a club where there is no line out, then stick a mic in front of the pa speakers and run a line back to the cam. Drop a lav on the floor in front of the stage. Do anything to get the audio right before you record, rather than "fix it in post."
Fixing in post is a lame CYA way of saying "I didn't take the time to figure it out before I did the gig." Sometimes bad stuff happens, but if you know there will be a problem in the future, fix it before it's a problem, because no matter what, you won't be able to make it perfect later.

Keep in mind, the ear is far more picky about what it hears than the eye is about what it sees.

[Edward Troxel]

I would probably just create it in Vegas and add it to the DVD as a movie.

[Federico Dib]

<<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle : Just as a word of light caution, I once copy/pasted one of my own posts from the forum you refer to, I was threatened with copyright violation since they own copyright to what you post there.
-->>>

Man... I didn´t know that
I´ll make sure to paraphrase next time... It´s not like I´m publishing a book here...
Does DVinfo has copyrights of what we post here too??

Anyways.. thanx for answering... I´ll give it another try tonite and see how good can it get to sound..

Since this audio is for a Comediant Promo Video... and I´m using clips from 3 different clubs..
I found out that giving a little reverb to the "good recordings", evens out the difference of sounds and the bad recording doesn´t sound that bad...
I know that´s just subjective perception... but Is this OK?
I mean, fixing the more I can the bad sound to match the good sound.. and then fix the good sound to match the bad?


<<<-- Better thing to do in the end is record it correctly, if you can. If you are in a club where there is no line out, then stick a mic in front of the pa speakers and run a line back to the cam. Drop a lav on the floor in front of the stage. Do anything to get the audio right before you record, rather than "fix it in post."
Fixing in post is a lame CYA way of saying "I didn't take the time to figure it out before I did the gig." Sometimes bad stuff happens, but if you know there will be a problem in the future, fix it before it's a problem, because no matter what, you won't be able to make it perfect later.
-->>>

Well, you are completely right... and now that I know that club I know what to do next time in that club...
But I´ll probably be doing a lot of club shooting, most out of town, and this comediant guys are not very time aware... and we allways are late... and I only have one mic... and I´m only one person.. and sometimes it´s not possible to put the mic in a good spot...
So, as much as I dislike fixing in post, I´m pretty sure I´d have to do it a few times more before I can afford more equipment, and an assitant.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

More than reverb, you'll find that applying compression at around 3:1 will help a LOT in getting a more even and consistent sound. You'll need to prank with the settings. Depending on your NLE, you can download a number of free compressors that are acceptable, and can buy a huge number of them from various manufacturers like Sonic Timeworks or WAVES for both Mac and PC.
Reverb will help fill in the gap. Think of it this way. When you shoot really sharply contrasted lines with nasty shadows, you'd probably use a touch of blur to smooth the image, right? Reverb is doing just that. A compressor on the other hand, won't blur, but will diminish the shadow while keeping the subject a little more tight.
Try cutting some midrange frequency in the 300-500 hz range too. That should make a whopping difference, that's where most of the smaller club rooms tend to be honky.
As far as recording it right, if you've only got one mic, run it as CLOSE to the source as you can. I often say, "Mics are like hand grenades. It's a proximity thing. The closer it is to the target, the better it does it's job." Visuals don't suffer the effects of distance as much as audio. We don't 'see' delayed images, but we surely hear delayed audio, plus all it's reflections in a room. Getting the mic closer to the source will minimize reflections, achieve a more direct sound, and clean up the overall image MUCH better. A little lav can easily be dangled from the ceiling of the club near the PA system, taped to the floor near the performer, put at the mid point on the PA speaker itself, between horn/tweeter and driver/woofer. Don't put it over either one directly or you'll really be unhappy.
Run and gun audio is tough, especially if you don't have the gear. A good shotgun would be quite valuable here too, but mount it on a stand rather than a camera. You'll have more control and less wash noise.
I dunno that DVInfo presses the copyright of your post issue. I'd sorta doubt it. Chris isn't a control freak.

[Michael Estepp]

I found that you can add a photo album simpley by right clicking on the menu and clicking "add photo ablum" Now the templat they have is timed... 5 second intervals before it switches to the next picture. I would Like to have it be a manual change via remote... maybe with a little arrow at the bottom. Is it possible to do that and if so, is it possible to have audio loop in the background?

Michael Estepp

[Federico Dib]

Hey, thanx for the info.. now I´ll be doing some more experiments... It looks like I won´t be standing from this desk in a while.

Just for sharing... That club where I got the bad audio... I just heard it is a reformed old place where they kept wine to mature (don´t know the name for that). And I´m using the word "reformed" very loosely here.
That´s the kind of echo I have in there.

[Glenn Chan]

Rooms with parallel walls will have standing waves where the echos meet themselves and re-inforce or cancel each other out. This boosts or attenuates certain frequencies.

From Jay Rose's posts on dv.com's audio forum, here is a good way of fixing it:
Use a paragraphic equalizer to boost a narrow range of frequencies. You want to find the frequencies where the standing waves are. Sweep through the frequencies and once you've found them, set the EQ to attenuate and adjust so you don't get distorted sound.

That's pretty much what DSE said, except that you boost EQ first to find the frequencies you want to attenuate.

Removing echo is one thing audio programs aren't good at, so try to get good sound in the first place. Try to get closer to the sound source (the comedian or even the speakers) to reduce echoes. I'm not sure how a shotgun will do. Shotgun mics have very bad off-axis response and the echoes will sound distorted and do weird things to your sound.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

I take exception to the title of this thread. :-) (My nickname is Spot for those who don't know me)

What about color sampling the area around the dot, using the color sample as either a solid color from the generator, or using a gradient that would give you some room to maneuver the blending, then keyframe this mask to move along with your subject? You can post a link to an image....that would help a lot.

[Edward Troxel]

Douglas,
Your the "welcome" Spot, not the "unsightly" one! :-)

[Joe Sacher]

I have to do this occationally with glass doors that are opened and closed when shooting with lighting setup outside. I duplicate the video event and use pan and crop to shift it so that the replacement spot is over the place to be replaced. (Use a lower opacity on the top clip to position.) Then I add a cookie cutter with feathered edges to only show the replacement portion of the top video. This is analogous to using the stamp tool in Photoshop to "paint" a portion of the picture from another section.

Even when following a moving target on the opening door, it is pretty quick to do. This will be similar to the singer walking in front of it. I would probably use a pan and crop keyframed generated gradient as an alpha mask to wipe the replacement spot on and off as the singer walks by. You also may find it easier to use a spot of video that has no singer in it and either slow down, or duplicate, so you don't have to deal with the replacement spot being wall sometimes and singer other times.

[Andre Andreev]

How do you simulate
- analog video dropouts
- film dropouts
- tv signal dropout / instability

in vegas video? Are there scripts available to do this?

These can be very useful when simulating tv, hidden cameras, in sci fi etc. and are an easy way to add motion and ambience in many other cases.

Thank you.
-- Andre

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

All those things you are asking for are there as filters already. You don't need a script. There are some presets, and there is a lot of tweak ability in each of the plugs.
The TV simulator is quite good, my tutorial on creating a "star wars-like hologram" uses it.
The Film FX tools in Vegas are all keyframable, allowing for as much or as little grain, jitter, dust, grit, hair, scratch etc that you'd like to have.