Vegas Video discussions from 2004 (Q1Q2)

Bogdan Vaglarov · March 9th, 2004, 12:13 AM

First of all many thanks to Edward for the great job with the Tips, Tricks and Scripts guide!
I need to know more in order to make my choice on the hard drives usage and organization though.

What exactly is the Temporary files folder?
In Sound Forge the program makes back up copy so you can restore quickly the changes and the actual editing is on the copy. Obviously it’s better the temp folder to be on different physical disk. After you confirm the final save the original file is overwritten.
How is that implemented in Vegas?

Also what does it mean Prerendered files? I know that Vegas when told to render is actually skipping the untouched parts and rendering only the parts with effects and transitions, added text, etc. What is the relation between the raw DV data and the rendered final project?

Where the actual editing process take place? If it’s in the temp files folder than it’s better to be different from your raw video storage disk I think.

Often spelled tip says ‘keep your things not on your OS drive’. But usually main OS kernel and active programs are run from within the RAM (if you have plenty). So here there is controversy I guess.

My basic scenario will be:
1) Capture from mini DV
2) Edit (with Vegas for example)
3) Render the final project (ready for printing to tape for archiving on mini DV)
4) Encode to MPEG2 + AC3 (authoring for DVD). I would like to store this for certain time so I can make few copies later if needed.

What would be my best set up if I use only 2 drives?

Any opinions? Thanks…

P.S. You can omit my scenario – I’m really interested mainly on the physics of editing process!

Edward Troxel · March 9th, 2004, 08:13 AM

The "Temporary Files Folder" is where Vegas will write any files that need to be temporarily created and then deleted when no longer needed. However, sometimes a large amount of space is needed so make sure the drive you choose has plenty of space. This CAN be your OS drive as long as the OS drive has plenty of room. Every time you render, temporary space is used.

The "Prerendered Files Folder" is where all prerenders are stored when you either manually choose to pre-render OR you do a Print To Tape. This should typically be your video drive and may also require a large amount of space.

Kim Kinser · March 9th, 2004, 02:57 PM

Does anyone have a nice way to take a pile of jpg's and turn them into a montage/slideshow with transitions in a somewhat automated fashion?

Thanks!

James Sudik · March 9th, 2004, 03:04 PM

I have Screenblast, and I am considering the reduced cost upgrade to Vegas 4, which is $459. Of course, I could upgrade to Vegas+DVD and get the additional software, for $699. Therein lies my conondrum. I understand, in general terms, what the additional software in V+DVD is for. I really do not need the AC-3 audio, but it is pretty sweet I'm sure. Other than that, what are the benefits of the additional $250? Will finished products made in Vegas look "better" when burned to DVD with the +DVD software. I read that the encoding is better (I may really screw up my terminology here) with the apps in +DVD, which result in better audio AND video quality on the final DVD copies. If this is true I may stretch my budget and get the full-meal-deal. However, if I can create projects in Vegas 4 and move them to DVD that look the same in regard to quality, but have less options for chapters, or menus & buttons etc, I would rather spend the money on something else. If it isn't painfully obvious I am a newbie to this level of editing, so I appreciate your assistance as well as your patience.

Edward Troxel · March 9th, 2004, 03:54 PM

The "+DVD" adds both the AC-3 encoder AND the DVD authoring program. You need a DVD authoring program to create the proper files to burn a DVD. If you already have a different authoring program you prefer to use, then "+DVD" is not required. However, I LIKE DVD Architect and now use it for ALL of my DVDs.

Edward Troxel · March 9th, 2004, 03:56 PM

Sure I do. Check out the article that talks about that in my newsletter.

http://www.jetdv.com/tts

The aid of a couple of scripts really helps speed up the process!

Bogdan Vaglarov · March 9th, 2004, 04:46 PM

Thank you Edward!

So if I save my project on the video drive (with the raw data) it's clear the temp folder is better to be on different drive.

I still can't understand the difference between pre-render and render though.

Need a bit more clarification. Thanks.

Dan Lum · March 9th, 2004, 06:02 PM

So far, I've traced it to the point that the movie does not play once I've applied field blending (none: progressive) deinterlacing. The clip that does not have this process applied plays fine on all players.

James Sudik · March 9th, 2004, 06:33 PM

I follow you. I have the authoring app, but it is low-end (Sonic MyDVD is it I think) and was curious if the higher priced +DVD software was woth it in regard to quality of the final image on DVD.

Aaron Koolen · March 9th, 2004, 06:53 PM

Pre-rendering is still, technically rendering, but in a different context to "real" rendering. You usually "Render" your project when you've finished it and want to write it out in whatever codec and format you need (MPG2, Sorensen, DV etc) for final distribution. "Pre render" is usually the bits of rendering you do during the editing process, prior, or PRE to the "real" render. For example.

You might want to Pre-Render when you've applied a complicated effect to a region on the timeline that you couldn't playback at full framerate. You can just select the region on the timeline and chose to Selectively Pre-render. That region of the timeline will be rendered to your Prerender directory. Now when you play the timeline that clip will playback as though it was fully rendered. It will be using the "Pre-rendered" clip you made previously.

Any changes to that area of the project though will discard the pre-rendered clip and you'll have to pre-render again.

Aaron

Edward Troxel · March 9th, 2004, 08:30 PM

Best I can answer is "It depends". Generally speaking, they SHOULD both be able to give the same quality. However, it depends on where you do the rendering (in Vegas in both cases? or do you let MyDVD render?) and whether or not the program will accept the MPEG2 files without re-rendering. Lots of factors can make the answer vary.

Kim Kinser · March 9th, 2004, 09:48 PM

Did you mean the pbs wizard?

Thanks for your quick response btw.

KIM

David Mintzer · March 9th, 2004, 10:58 PM

PBS is for the Ken Burns effect--read the newsletter Ed referred too.

Randy Stewart · March 10th, 2004, 01:49 AM

James,
I'm a Vegas user who hasn't added DVDA. I use Movie Factory (a Ulead product) which cost me $50 and am very happy with it. I encode to the DVD template in Vegas using best quality and then import the MPEG-2 file into Movie Factory. No re-rendering. It burns with outstanding quality. If I need to, I can create some chapters but so far, I've only done one DVD with chapters. Most of my DVD's just start to play (no chapters). When I get rich enough (or Vegas 5 comes out), I'll probably upgrade but for now, I'm happy with what I have. Hope this helps.
Randy

Kim Kinser · March 10th, 2004, 08:03 AM

David -

I did read it and I thought he meant the pbs wizard so obviously I don't get it.

Maybe I looked at the wrong issue?

Issue #1 In this issue:

What is Tips, Tricks, and Scripts
Vegas Preferences - Part 1
What is Scripting
Fade the Selected Event In and Out

Issue #2 In this issue:

Creating a PIP using Track Motion - Part 1
Vegas Preferences - Part 2
Finding Tracks via Scripts

Issue #3 In this issue:

Creating a PIP using Track Motion - Part 2
Vegas Preferences - Capture Utility
Automatically Generate Lower-Third Titles

Issue #4 In this issue:

Creating a PIP using Track Motion - Part 3
DVD Architect Preferences
Beginner's Corner - Where Do I Start?
Add Movement to the Lower-Third

Issue #5 In this issue:

Capturing Snapshots from Video
Beginner's Corner - Capturing Video
Single Button Snapshots

Issue #6 In this issue:

Introducing: Excalibur
Beginner's Corner - Printing To Tape (PTT)
Slideshow to Markers Script

Issue #7 In this issue:

Preparing for DVD
DVD Bitrate Chart
Beginner's Corner - Beginning Editing
Authoring a DVD in DVD Architect

Issue #8 In this issue:

Creating a Motion Slide Show with Pan/Crop
Beginner's Corner - Timeline Details
DVD Architect - Positioning Menu Items

Issue #9 In this issue:

Editing Multi-Cam Events
Beginner's Corner - Changing the Speed of a Clip
Adding and Assigning Bus Tracks

Issue #10 In this issue:

A Quick-Start Guide to Vegas Editing
Tsunami - A Wave of Editing Tools
Creating an Audio CD
Beginner’s Corner - Navigating the Timeline
Resetting Pan/Crop via a Script

Issue #11 In this issue:

Doing A Color Pass
Beginner's Corner - Changing Opacity
Add Markers At A Set Interval Via A Script

Issue #12 In this issue:

Review of Vegas 4 Editing Workshop Book
Beginner's Corner - Scope of Effects
Blurring Faces a la "Cops"
Obfuscating and Encoding Scripts

March 9th, 2004, 12:13 AM	#706
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Temporary and Prerendered Files Folder question First of all many thanks to Edward for the great job with the Tips, Tricks and Scripts guide! I need to know more in order to make my choice on the hard drives usage and organization though. What exactly is the Temporary files folder? In Sound Forge the program makes back up copy so you can restore quickly the changes and the actual editing is on the copy. Obviously it’s better the temp folder to be on different physical disk. After you confirm the final save the original file is overwritten. How is that implemented in Vegas? Also what does it mean Prerendered files? I know that Vegas when told to render is actually skipping the untouched parts and rendering only the parts with effects and transitions, added text, etc. What is the relation between the raw DV data and the rendered final project? Where the actual editing process take place? If it’s in the temp files folder than it’s better to be different from your raw video storage disk I think. Often spelled tip says ‘keep your things not on your OS drive’. But usually main OS kernel and active programs are run from within the RAM (if you have plenty). So here there is controversy I guess. My basic scenario will be: 1) Capture from mini DV 2) Edit (with Vegas for example) 3) Render the final project (ready for printing to tape for archiving on mini DV) 4) Encode to MPEG2 + AC3 (authoring for DVD). I would like to store this for certain time so I can make few copies later if needed. What would be my best set up if I use only 2 drives? Any opinions? Thanks… P.S. You can omit my scenario – I’m really interested mainly on the physics of editing process!

March 9th, 2004, 02:57 PM	#708
Kim Kinser Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Voorhees, NJ Posts: 82	Convert Stills to slideshow Does anyone have a nice way to take a pile of jpg's and turn them into a montage/slideshow with transitions in a somewhat automated fashion? Thanks!

March 9th, 2004, 03:04 PM	#709
James Sudik Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Port Lavaca, TX Posts: 64	Curious about Screenblast upgrade... I have Screenblast, and I am considering the reduced cost upgrade to Vegas 4, which is $459. Of course, I could upgrade to Vegas+DVD and get the additional software, for $699. Therein lies my conondrum. I understand, in general terms, what the additional software in V+DVD is for. I really do not need the AC-3 audio, but it is pretty sweet I'm sure. Other than that, what are the benefits of the additional $250? Will finished products made in Vegas look "better" when burned to DVD with the +DVD software. I read that the encoding is better (I may really screw up my terminology here) with the apps in +DVD, which result in better audio AND video quality on the final DVD copies. If this is true I may stretch my budget and get the full-meal-deal. However, if I can create projects in Vegas 4 and move them to DVD that look the same in regard to quality, but have less options for chapters, or menus & buttons etc, I would rather spend the money on something else. If it isn't painfully obvious I am a newbie to this level of editing, so I appreciate your assistance as well as your patience. __________________ It's not a bug, it's a feature.

March 9th, 2004, 06:02 PM	#713
Dan Lum New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Vancouver Canada Posts: 9	update So far, I've traced it to the point that the movie does not play once I've applied field blending (none: progressive) deinterlacing. The clip that does not have this process applied plays fine on all players.

March 9th, 2004, 06:33 PM	#714
James Sudik Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Port Lavaca, TX Posts: 64	I follow you. I have the authoring app, but it is low-end (Sonic MyDVD is it I think) and was curious if the higher priced +DVD software was woth it in regard to quality of the final image on DVD. __________________ It's not a bug, it's a feature.

March 9th, 2004, 08:13 AM	#707
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	The "Temporary Files Folder" is where Vegas will write any files that need to be temporarily created and then deleted when no longer needed. However, sometimes a large amount of space is needed so make sure the drive you choose has plenty of space. This CAN be your OS drive as long as the OS drive has plenty of room. Every time you render, temporary space is used. The "Prerendered Files Folder" is where all prerenders are stored when you either manually choose to pre-render OR you do a Print To Tape. This should typically be your video drive and may also require a large amount of space.

March 9th, 2004, 03:54 PM	#710
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	The "+DVD" adds both the AC-3 encoder AND the DVD authoring program. You need a DVD authoring program to create the proper files to burn a DVD. If you already have a different authoring program you prefer to use, then "+DVD" is not required. However, I LIKE DVD Architect and now use it for ALL of my DVDs.

March 9th, 2004, 03:56 PM	#711
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Sure I do. Check out the article that talks about that in my newsletter. http://www.jetdv.com/tts The aid of a couple of scripts really helps speed up the process!

March 9th, 2004, 04:46 PM	#712
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Thank you Edward! So if I save my project on the video drive (with the raw data) it's clear the temp folder is better to be on different drive. I still can't understand the difference between pre-render and render though. Need a bit more clarification. Thanks.

March 9th, 2004, 06:53 PM	#715
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Pre-rendering is still, technically rendering, but in a different context to "real" rendering. You usually "Render" your project when you've finished it and want to write it out in whatever codec and format you need (MPG2, Sorensen, DV etc) for final distribution. "Pre render" is usually the bits of rendering you do during the editing process, prior, or PRE to the "real" render. For example. You might want to Pre-Render when you've applied a complicated effect to a region on the timeline that you couldn't playback at full framerate. You can just select the region on the timeline and chose to Selectively Pre-render. That region of the timeline will be rendered to your Prerender directory. Now when you play the timeline that clip will playback as though it was fully rendered. It will be using the "Pre-rendered" clip you made previously. Any changes to that area of the project though will discard the pre-rendered clip and you'll have to pre-render again. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

March 9th, 2004, 08:30 PM	#716
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Best I can answer is "It depends". Generally speaking, they SHOULD both be able to give the same quality. However, it depends on where you do the rendering (in Vegas in both cases? or do you let MyDVD render?) and whether or not the program will accept the MPEG2 files without re-rendering. Lots of factors can make the answer vary.

March 9th, 2004, 09:48 PM	#717
Kim Kinser Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Voorhees, NJ Posts: 82	Did you mean the pbs wizard? Thanks for your quick response btw. KIM

March 9th, 2004, 10:58 PM	#718
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	PBS is for the Ken Burns effect--read the newsletter Ed referred too.

March 10th, 2004, 01:49 AM	#719
Randy Stewart Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hooper, UT Posts: 177	James, I'm a Vegas user who hasn't added DVDA. I use Movie Factory (a Ulead product) which cost me $50 and am very happy with it. I encode to the DVD template in Vegas using best quality and then import the MPEG-2 file into Movie Factory. No re-rendering. It burns with outstanding quality. If I need to, I can create some chapters but so far, I've only done one DVD with chapters. Most of my DVD's just start to play (no chapters). When I get rich enough (or Vegas 5 comes out), I'll probably upgrade but for now, I'm happy with what I have. Hope this helps. Randy

March 10th, 2004, 08:03 AM	#720
Kim Kinser Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Voorhees, NJ Posts: 82	David - I did read it and I thought he meant the pbs wizard so obviously I don't get it. Maybe I looked at the wrong issue? Issue #1 In this issue: What is Tips, Tricks, and Scripts Vegas Preferences - Part 1 What is Scripting Fade the Selected Event In and Out Issue #2 In this issue: Creating a PIP using Track Motion - Part 1 Vegas Preferences - Part 2 Finding Tracks via Scripts Issue #3 In this issue: Creating a PIP using Track Motion - Part 2 Vegas Preferences - Capture Utility Automatically Generate Lower-Third Titles Issue #4 In this issue: Creating a PIP using Track Motion - Part 3 DVD Architect Preferences Beginner's Corner - Where Do I Start? Add Movement to the Lower-Third Issue #5 In this issue: Capturing Snapshots from Video Beginner's Corner - Capturing Video Single Button Snapshots Issue #6 In this issue: Introducing: Excalibur Beginner's Corner - Printing To Tape (PTT) Slideshow to Markers Script Issue #7 In this issue: Preparing for DVD DVD Bitrate Chart Beginner's Corner - Beginning Editing Authoring a DVD in DVD Architect Issue #8 In this issue: Creating a Motion Slide Show with Pan/Crop Beginner's Corner - Timeline Details DVD Architect - Positioning Menu Items Issue #9 In this issue: Editing Multi-Cam Events Beginner's Corner - Changing the Speed of a Clip Adding and Assigning Bus Tracks Issue #10 In this issue: A Quick-Start Guide to Vegas Editing Tsunami - A Wave of Editing Tools Creating an Audio CD Beginner’s Corner - Navigating the Timeline Resetting Pan/Crop via a Script Issue #11 In this issue: Doing A Color Pass Beginner's Corner - Changing Opacity Add Markers At A Set Interval Via A Script Issue #12 In this issue: Review of Vegas 4 Editing Workshop Book Beginner's Corner - Scope of Effects Blurring Faces a la "Cops" Obfuscating and Encoding Scripts