Vegas Video discussions from 2004 (Q1Q2)

Rob Lohman · February 13th, 2004, 05:24 AM

Vegas is not using AC3 internally, so you don't need an AC3
encoder. So are you saying you use analog output on the card
for Vegas and the digital SPDIF for things like games and DVD's?
If so, why not simply swap the front and read analog connections
on your card then?

I don't have an answer as to why Vegas might be doing this,
and from the lack of responses from other people nobody else
seems to. There is an official Vegas Audio forum over at Sony,
I suggest you post the question there as well.

And if they do have the answer, please update the thread here.

Thanks and good luck!

Rob Lohman · February 13th, 2004, 06:19 AM

"I would imagine rendering two projects would cut the rendering time in half, right?"

Ehm, no? Rendering time will increase since they are both fighting
over the CPU time and other resources. But this can be handy if
you want to projects to render overnight as Edward points out.

Peter Sieben · February 13th, 2004, 06:26 AM

Andreas, I've got the same soundcard and speakers as you do. It won't work via the digital output of the TB card, because Vegas can't feed it in realtime with a Dolby Digital encoded signal from the timeline (rendering is needed for that). I've tried everything and it just will not work.

The only thing that worked was finding other drivers for the TB (I had the OEM ones that came from Dell) which gives extra routing config. options for using the seperated analog outputs of the TB card. In combination with the pc-surroundspeakers and it's build in amplifier this worked, but I lost all kind of features outside Vegas (playing dvd movies on the pc). I decided to change my config. back to the original, mix on my front speakers and check my 5.1 surround mixes after rendering parts of the movie by listening to the AC3 file with Power-DVD or Windows Media Player.

The best solution is a multi-channel soundcard, which you connect with 6 outputs (3 stereo-pairs, for 5.1 surround-outputs) to an surround amplifier with 6 (5.1) multi-channel inputs.

The Sony forum has a lot of info about that.

Peter Sieben

Glen Elliott · February 13th, 2004, 07:20 AM

So this has happened to you too?

Edward Troxel · February 13th, 2004, 08:31 AM

This happens to me in straight Windows Explorer. I agree it's more of a Windows issue than a Vegas issue. As long as the files still import properly (and they should because the name doesn't change), I wouldn't worry about it.

Edward Troxel · February 13th, 2004, 08:34 AM

If you render two projects that take 30 minutes each, the total render time to render both of them at the same time will probably be over an hour. I can't say exactly how much over an hour but each one will be slowed down. If you have a multiple CPU system, of course this could all work out differently.

Glen Elliott · February 13th, 2004, 09:30 AM

Thanks, all, for the input.

Peter Jefferson · February 13th, 2004, 09:39 AM

i only work in 5.1, HW and SW... but im moving into using vegas for all my projects nwo and ditching all my HW encoders.

as mentioned, Vegas does not work the 5.1 via digital output. Dont really know why, as ive tried using 3 differnet cards...

heres teh easiest solution for you.

Its been said before, but i must reiterate...

"The best solution is a multi-channel soundcard, which you connect with 6 outputs (3 stereo-pairs, for 5.1 surround-outputs) to an surround amplifier with 6 (5.1) multi-channel inputs."

Ditch the Turtle Beach, go and get a Soundblaster Audigy or Audigy 2, theyre peanut$ now, but offer an incredible s/n ratio, plus (and most importantly) ASIO drivers...

this is imperative for true 5.1 surround pans, as latency is ZERO

on top of that, you can route audio effects directly to the card itself thruvirtual audio cables (a lil more advanced in the audio field) as it uses an emu 10k processor, which is found on al the high end Emu samplers.

No offense, but even if speakers are thx certified doesnt mean they are good for what u need. These days thx certified doesnt really mean much, and without a centre speaker monitor, your monitoring will not be accurate.

good luck with it

Joe Sacher · February 13th, 2004, 12:08 PM

As has been said, for an HT processor, that logic doesn't stand up to empirical tests. I've seen a 10-20% time savings by rendering two projects in parallel, as compared to rendering them in series. However, I set one to low priority (in Task Manager -> Processes) so it isn't fighting as hard for resources and only uses the spare CPU cycles. With a single render you can see a fully loaded single CPU and a 10-40% "second" CPU. (I know with HT they aren't actual dual CPUs, but it gives you a good idea of the number of no-ops in the pipeline of the processor.) With two projects running, both are right at 100%. The only problem is if you have them fighting for disk access.

My typical use is setting a Vegas project to low priority to render in ithe background, while I work in Vegas or Animation:Master in the foreground. (OK, or watch a DVD or play Dr. Mario on the Nintendo Emulator, but you get my drift. :) )

Michael Estepp · February 14th, 2004, 02:10 PM

Is there a way to see a source record edit dual window in vegas?

Glenn Chan · February 14th, 2004, 04:12 PM

I'm trying to loop background sound and it sounds the same forwards and backwards. How would I reverse audio so I can loop it without clicks? (I don't like using crossfades and copying it over and over again since you have to manually move the copied versions so they overlap and because the background volume varies slightly so the crossfade sounds a little off)

Edward Troxel · February 14th, 2004, 08:41 PM

Vegas does not reverse audio. To do that, use Sound Forge or even Microsoft Recorder.

Edward Troxel · February 14th, 2004, 08:45 PM

You mean two preview windows? (i.e. one for trimmer and one for the project???) If this is what you mean then NO. However, you don't really need it anyway.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 15th, 2004, 12:06 PM

Uh! Avoid an Audigy if you want real surround. At the risk of getting apples and tomatoes thrown, you CAN'T do surround with anything that you can buy from Comp USA and expect it to have a modicum of quality. Just cannot be done, period.
The cheapest speaks I've seen that offer reasonably good surround monitoring are the LX4's from M-Audio and even then it's a little weird.
The Altecs are THX certified for LISTENING, not for authoring.
A real sound card for authoring isn't built into the machine, a nice gaming card doesn't have the response nor clean output required for doing good surround. The speaks and soundcard are only a very small part of the equation, you need the room set up correctly too. Discreet outs to all 6 speakers are required, multilexed outputs divided at the sub don't cut it.
We've got a surround VASST taking off in a month, you might find it useful. http://www.vasst.com/touragenda/surroundagenda.htm will get you more information. This tour, while being taught with Vegas, will benefit anyone using Protools, Vegas, or Audition for creating surround projects.

Law Tyler · February 15th, 2004, 01:33 PM

Well, I don't know how you can record it, but, if you grab the fast-foward-reverse symbol at the "rate:" (with the yellow triangle below) and pull it to the left, it will go reverse video and audio in the monitor, but how do you record it? Be sure you are at the "end" of the clip to start.

I thought it is really funny, sounds like they are speaking Russian or something, and the lips sync'ed.

I am using Vegas4+DVD.

February 13th, 2004, 05:24 AM	#406
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Vegas is not using AC3 internally, so you don't need an AC3 encoder. So are you saying you use analog output on the card for Vegas and the digital SPDIF for things like games and DVD's? If so, why not simply swap the front and read analog connections on your card then? I don't have an answer as to why Vegas might be doing this, and from the lack of responses from other people nobody else seems to. There is an official Vegas Audio forum over at Sony, I suggest you post the question there as well. And if they do have the answer, please update the thread here. Thanks and good luck! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 13th, 2004, 06:19 AM	#407
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	"I would imagine rendering two projects would cut the rendering time in half, right?" Ehm, no? Rendering time will increase since they are both fighting over the CPU time and other resources. But this can be handy if you want to projects to render overnight as Edward points out. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 13th, 2004, 06:26 AM	#408
Peter Sieben Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 345	Andreas, I've got the same soundcard and speakers as you do. It won't work via the digital output of the TB card, because Vegas can't feed it in realtime with a Dolby Digital encoded signal from the timeline (rendering is needed for that). I've tried everything and it just will not work. The only thing that worked was finding other drivers for the TB (I had the OEM ones that came from Dell) which gives extra routing config. options for using the seperated analog outputs of the TB card. In combination with the pc-surroundspeakers and it's build in amplifier this worked, but I lost all kind of features outside Vegas (playing dvd movies on the pc). I decided to change my config. back to the original, mix on my front speakers and check my 5.1 surround mixes after rendering parts of the movie by listening to the AC3 file with Power-DVD or Windows Media Player. The best solution is a multi-channel soundcard, which you connect with 6 outputs (3 stereo-pairs, for 5.1 surround-outputs) to an surround amplifier with 6 (5.1) multi-channel inputs. The Sony forum has a lot of info about that. Peter Sieben __________________ Peter / Orphic Film www.orphicfilm.nl and www.myspace.com/orphicfilm

February 14th, 2004, 02:10 PM	#415
Michael Estepp Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 95	Source-record Is there a way to see a source record edit dual window in vegas?

February 14th, 2004, 04:12 PM	#416
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Reversing audio in Vegas- how? I'm trying to loop background sound and it sounds the same forwards and backwards. How would I reverse audio so I can loop it without clicks? (I don't like using crossfades and copying it over and over again since you have to manually move the copied versions so they overlap and because the background volume varies slightly so the crossfade sounds a little off)

February 13th, 2004, 07:20 AM	#409
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	So this has happened to you too?

February 13th, 2004, 08:31 AM	#410
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	This happens to me in straight Windows Explorer. I agree it's more of a Windows issue than a Vegas issue. As long as the files still import properly (and they should because the name doesn't change), I wouldn't worry about it.

February 13th, 2004, 08:34 AM	#411
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	If you render two projects that take 30 minutes each, the total render time to render both of them at the same time will probably be over an hour. I can't say exactly how much over an hour but each one will be slowed down. If you have a multiple CPU system, of course this could all work out differently.

February 13th, 2004, 09:30 AM	#412
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Thanks, all, for the input.

February 13th, 2004, 09:39 AM	#413
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	i only work in 5.1, HW and SW... but im moving into using vegas for all my projects nwo and ditching all my HW encoders. as mentioned, Vegas does not work the 5.1 via digital output. Dont really know why, as ive tried using 3 differnet cards... heres teh easiest solution for you. Its been said before, but i must reiterate... "The best solution is a multi-channel soundcard, which you connect with 6 outputs (3 stereo-pairs, for 5.1 surround-outputs) to an surround amplifier with 6 (5.1) multi-channel inputs." Ditch the Turtle Beach, go and get a Soundblaster Audigy or Audigy 2, theyre peanut$ now, but offer an incredible s/n ratio, plus (and most importantly) ASIO drivers... this is imperative for true 5.1 surround pans, as latency is ZERO on top of that, you can route audio effects directly to the card itself thruvirtual audio cables (a lil more advanced in the audio field) as it uses an emu 10k processor, which is found on al the high end Emu samplers. No offense, but even if speakers are thx certified doesnt mean they are good for what u need. These days thx certified doesnt really mean much, and without a centre speaker monitor, your monitoring will not be accurate. good luck with it

February 13th, 2004, 12:08 PM	#414
Joe Sacher Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 177	As has been said, for an HT processor, that logic doesn't stand up to empirical tests. I've seen a 10-20% time savings by rendering two projects in parallel, as compared to rendering them in series. However, I set one to low priority (in Task Manager -> Processes) so it isn't fighting as hard for resources and only uses the spare CPU cycles. With a single render you can see a fully loaded single CPU and a 10-40% "second" CPU. (I know with HT they aren't actual dual CPUs, but it gives you a good idea of the number of no-ops in the pipeline of the processor.) With two projects running, both are right at 100%. The only problem is if you have them fighting for disk access. My typical use is setting a Vegas project to low priority to render in ithe background, while I work in Vegas or Animation:Master in the foreground. (OK, or watch a DVD or play Dr. Mario on the Nintendo Emulator, but you get my drift. :) )

February 14th, 2004, 08:41 PM	#417
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Vegas does not reverse audio. To do that, use Sound Forge or even Microsoft Recorder.

February 14th, 2004, 08:45 PM	#418
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	You mean two preview windows? (i.e. one for trimmer and one for the project???) If this is what you mean then NO. However, you don't really need it anyway.

February 15th, 2004, 12:06 PM	#419
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Uh! Avoid an Audigy if you want real surround. At the risk of getting apples and tomatoes thrown, you CAN'T do surround with anything that you can buy from Comp USA and expect it to have a modicum of quality. Just cannot be done, period. The cheapest speaks I've seen that offer reasonably good surround monitoring are the LX4's from M-Audio and even then it's a little weird. The Altecs are THX certified for LISTENING, not for authoring. A real sound card for authoring isn't built into the machine, a nice gaming card doesn't have the response nor clean output required for doing good surround. The speaks and soundcard are only a very small part of the equation, you need the room set up correctly too. Discreet outs to all 6 speakers are required, multilexed outputs divided at the sub don't cut it. We've got a surround VASST taking off in a month, you might find it useful. http://www.vasst.com/touragenda/surroundagenda.htm will get you more information. This tour, while being taught with Vegas, will benefit anyone using Protools, Vegas, or Audition for creating surround projects. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 15th, 2004, 01:33 PM	#420
Law Tyler Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 204	Well, I don't know how you can record it, but, if you grab the fast-foward-reverse symbol at the "rate:" (with the yellow triangle below) and pull it to the left, it will go reverse video and audio in the monitor, but how do you record it? Be sure you are at the "end" of the clip to start. I thought it is really funny, sounds like they are speaking Russian or something, and the lips sync'ed. I am using Vegas4+DVD.