Vegas Video discussions from 2004 (Q1Q2)

Edward Troxel · February 10th, 2004, 09:57 PM

Q1. I believe there is a more effective way to work in trimmer. How do YOU do it?

I don't use the trimmer much, Instead I just drop the clip on the timeline and cut out the sections I don't want.

Q2. Also, I noticed that markers createdin trimmer remain in the "cut" when moved to the timeline, but for some reason I can't read their labels. How can I access that info?

You only access that through the explorer screen.

Q3. Technical tip/question: I am using a 160Gb external drive to capture and edit. Initially I would render on the same drive. This however leads to the drive reading/writing small chunks of data from and to itself. Not optimal. Next I started rendering onto another physical drive and it worked much smoother.

Any experience with this? What is your setting? 1 drive for everything or A for capturing/final storage and B for rendering_to.

Two drives will, generally, be faster but I frequently render to the same drive. Depends on your workflow and number of drives available.

Q4. I found it hard to manage alternate entries for the same cut. Say I want to see the timeline with cut A and immediately after that with cut B in order to make my mind of which one to keep. What's an effective way to do this without moving everything around? Duplicate timeline?

I would recommend either putting them at the same location in the timeline on different tracks OR put them all in the same place as takes. You may also want to take a look at Excalibur if you are really doing multi-camera edits.

Q5. How do I move a cut to a different place quickly? Insert Time? How do you do it?

Not exactly sure what you mean here. If you mean you simply placed the cut in the wrong place, a quick way would be to make a new cut at the correct place, delete the bad footage, and then extend the good clip to the new cut spot.

You may also want to look at holding down CTRL-ALT while dragging the cut point.

Trey Perrone · February 10th, 2004, 11:25 PM

Don - i have been outputting to full avi so then i can convert in QT, real or WMP9. I also use the AVI for making DVDs. I know i can output directly to mpeg2 or whatnot for dvd, but it seems easier to just make the AVI for the other formats so no intermediate compression is involved (maybe my thinking on this is incorrect).

Edward - I have done that on some projects before, output full AVI and then create a new project and just pull in the complete AVI, but it was because i actually changed the music up and not the video/transitions, etc.

In any case, i am not changing anything in the files/projects/settings,etc etc etc

I think it is just because the PTT creates many small files for the video in the temp file (along with wav64 if the settings are configured that way). Maybe it has something to do with sustained data rates, etc.

i did another project today and did the PTT first, which took an hour an a half or so...then i did the AVI output for DVD and it only took 5 minutes, so it appeared to work fine. earlier i did the AVI first, then the PTT and it took over an hour for the AVI and almost an hour for PTT....strange.

Joe Mosquera · February 10th, 2004, 11:57 PM

I am new to Vegas and to the DVX100A so please excuse my ignorance.

I am currently shooting my footage in 24pA and editing in a 24fps timeline. I plan on using the footage personally for 24p DVD's. I realize that for prerenders I should insert 2-3-3-2 pulldown and then bring that file back into Vegas and do a final render inserting a 2-3 pulldown .

My question is can this final render file with the 2-3 pulldown be printed back to a DV tape and then used essentially as 24p "normal" footage, so that it could be sold as stock footage to companies who wanted to edit on a 29.97 fps timeline and mix my stock footage with 60i footage as well as their footage which has been shot in 24p "normal" using a DVX100A.

Trey Perrone · February 11th, 2004, 12:20 AM

anyone else have any issues with DVD architect? i had it for a while, never used it and then loaded it up a couple weeks ago hoping to use it...i have only been using it to prepare the files...it either does not see the dvdwriter or it gives an error

i ahve udpated to the 1.0d version
most recent firmware update on my lite-on 411s

after i have been preparing the files i just use Nero and do the burn there, but its an extra step.

Dan Lahav · February 11th, 2004, 12:30 AM

it's common on many of the newer dvd burners... DVD Arch is in despirate need of an update

Duncan Wilson · February 11th, 2004, 03:03 AM

Thanks Edward, I'll do that. In fact, Rob's method worked just fine, but returning to the default will be handy.

Peter Jefferson · February 11th, 2004, 04:36 AM

i have been outputting to full avi so then i can convert in QT, real or WMP9. I also use the AVI for making DVDs. I know i can output directly to mpeg2 or whatnot for dvd, but it seems easier to just make the AVI for the other formats so no intermediate compression is involved (maybe my thinking on this is incorrect).

i do this too.. IMO, your not wrong. as the rendering is faster.

Also with one file, its easier to segregate certain elements for later use such as promos and web stuff... and u jsut do a nice clean conversion without havnig to worr abotu actual rendering of effects etc..

thing is when i print to tape, i DONT use vegas or vidcap. Even though the capture in VidCap is faultless, im experiencing the same issue u are.. so now i use An old copy of pinnacle 7 to do this.

It PTT seemeless without having to do anything.. so long as its AVI, it will transfer anything.

U might be abel to find a free V capture/PTT app, but u can prolly find something liek pinnacle cheap now.. it doesnt have to be teh latest version..

even though i love Vegas to death (hell my business relies on it) it still has some issues.

Im still waiting for them to fix architect..

Peter Jefferson · February 11th, 2004, 04:40 AM

use DVDRW and you shoudlnt have a problem.. this is a known issue.. there are MANY known issues.. i just wish they'd fix the bugger... WITH AN UPDATE.. not a new program that we have to pay for again..

Peter Jefferson · February 11th, 2004, 04:48 AM

what Edward says hit the nail on the head, but I don't use anything like Excalibur as I really have no need for it. Once you work out your own flow, you don't need anything, just a good quality optical mouse with a built in trackball :)

Q1. I believe there is a more effective way to work in trimmer. How do YOU do it?

((don't use it.. click and drag ONE LONG AVI into the timeline (as mentioned.. ) do the split as you go along.. ))

Q2. Also, I noticed that markers created in trimmer remain in the "cut" when moved to the timeline, but for some reason I can't read their labels. How can I access that info?

((Don't use them... when playing back, hit the M key to create a marker.. these can then be used as chapter points in DVD Architect if needed))

A few more questions:

Q3. Technical tip/question: I am using a 160Gb external drive to capture and edit. Initially I would render on the same drive. This however leads to the drive reading/writing small chunks of data from and to itself. Not optimal. Next I started rendering onto another physical drive and it worked much smoother.

Any experience with this? What is your setting? 1 drive for everything or A for capturing/final storage and B for rendering_to.

((I use 2 120gb HDD for my projects. Raws on one drive (along with projects, music and additional materials.. Final render goes to the other one, which ONLY carries Mastered footage and maybe some promo stuff.. Very quick.. ))

Q4. I found it hard to manage alternate entries for the same cut. Say I want to see the timeline with cut A and immediately after that with cut B in order to make my mind of which one to keep. What's an effective way to do this without moving everything around? Duplicate timeline?

((No, create a new track, then use your mutes and solos with and without the footage in place.. when you make up your mind, just click and drag the one you want to keep ))

Q5. How do I move a cut to a different place quickly? Insert Time? How do you do it?

((err.. cut and paste bro... :) ))

Don Bloom · February 11th, 2004, 06:36 AM

Hey Trey, now I understand. I can't figure out why you're having a challenge right now but I get why you're rendering to AVI and then PTT.
Good Luck,
Don

Edward Troxel · February 11th, 2004, 09:10 AM

If you do a PTT and then create a full separate AVI file, that file WILL be created much faster because all of the pre-renders used for the PTT process will be used when creating the new AVI file. So, the entire project would be a straight file copy.

If you render to the separate AVI first, you would need to create the new project with the new AVI file or the PTT will require rendering each of the sections.

I've not done any official testing but it DOES seem that rendering to MPEG2 is a lot faster from a separately create AVI file. Now, whether it's enough faster to warrant the creation of that file, you'd have to run some tests to determine.

Edward Troxel · February 11th, 2004, 09:18 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : there are MANY known issues.. i just wish they'd fix the bugger... WITH AN UPDATE.. not a new program that we have to pay for again.. -->>>

Well, it works very well with a wide variety of burners. Most of the time when there is a problem, it's because of other DVD burning software being installed - particularly any packet writing type software. I would look there first.

As for "MANY known issues", I'm not sure I'd go that far. There are SOME known issues but, overall, it does what it says it will do and is very stable.

If I was a betting man, I would bet that the next version you see will be 2.0 and NOT 1.0e.

Edward Troxel · February 11th, 2004, 09:45 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : what Edward says hit the nail on the head, but I don't use anything like Excalibur as I really have no need for it. -->>>

It is true that anything that Excalibur does can be done manually. However, the beauty of Excalibur is that it will automate the process so that things can be done more quickly and easily. I can tell you from experience that multi-cam editing is MUCH faster using Excalibur than by using the manual process I previously used. Are things like Excalibur needed? No. Are they helpful? Absolutely.

Edward Troxel · February 11th, 2004, 09:54 AM

Just note that ALL settings will be returned to default. So, you will also reset anything changed in Options - Preferences.

Andreas Fernbrant · February 11th, 2004, 08:12 PM

I'm no beginner, so I've coverd almost every angle. But here it goes.

I want to mix 5.1 surround audio in Vegas, I have a 4.1 setup with a 5.1 simulated mode (THX Certified Altec Lansing model ADA885 speakers) I have a Santa Cruz (TurtleBeach) sound card. I've tried everything in Vegas to get the surround to work. But when I want a channel to go to the rear speakers they end up in the front speakers. When I watch DVD films I put the speaker model from 2 Speakers to SPDIF and it works great and sound even better.

So, I pretty much narrowed it down to Vegas. It works good in Windows, and great on DVD's played on my computer. But It does not work in vegas.

I went into OPTIONS -> PREFRENCES -> AUDIODEVICE.
I have 3 options, 1. Microsoft sound mapper 2. Direct sound surround mapper 3. Windows Classic Wave driver. I have mine on Windows classic, it puts the Santa Cruz name in the feilds and it works best but still no surround.

Anyone have any ideas to what this might be?

February 10th, 2004, 11:25 PM	#362
Trey Perrone Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 155	Don - i have been outputting to full avi so then i can convert in QT, real or WMP9. I also use the AVI for making DVDs. I know i can output directly to mpeg2 or whatnot for dvd, but it seems easier to just make the AVI for the other formats so no intermediate compression is involved (maybe my thinking on this is incorrect). Edward - I have done that on some projects before, output full AVI and then create a new project and just pull in the complete AVI, but it was because i actually changed the music up and not the video/transitions, etc. In any case, i am not changing anything in the files/projects/settings,etc etc etc I think it is just because the PTT creates many small files for the video in the temp file (along with wav64 if the settings are configured that way). Maybe it has something to do with sustained data rates, etc. i did another project today and did the PTT first, which took an hour an a half or so...then i did the AVI output for DVD and it only took 5 minutes, so it appeared to work fine. earlier i did the AVI first, then the PTT and it took over an hour for the AVI and almost an hour for PTT....strange. __________________ Trey Perrone

February 10th, 2004, 11:57 PM	#363
Joe Mosquera New Boot Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 11	Getting the Most out of 24pA footage? I am new to Vegas and to the DVX100A so please excuse my ignorance. I am currently shooting my footage in 24pA and editing in a 24fps timeline. I plan on using the footage personally for 24p DVD's. I realize that for prerenders I should insert 2-3-3-2 pulldown and then bring that file back into Vegas and do a final render inserting a 2-3 pulldown . My question is can this final render file with the 2-3 pulldown be printed back to a DV tape and then used essentially as 24p "normal" footage, so that it could be sold as stock footage to companies who wanted to edit on a 29.97 fps timeline and mix my stock footage with 60i footage as well as their footage which has been shot in 24p "normal" using a DVX100A.

February 11th, 2004, 12:20 AM	#364
Trey Perrone Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 155	dvd architect error OR not see DVD anyone else have any issues with DVD architect? i had it for a while, never used it and then loaded it up a couple weeks ago hoping to use it...i have only been using it to prepare the files...it either does not see the dvdwriter or it gives an error i ahve udpated to the 1.0d version most recent firmware update on my lite-on 411s after i have been preparing the files i just use Nero and do the burn there, but its an extra step. __________________ Trey Perrone

February 11th, 2004, 08:12 PM	#375
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Hardcore Surround Question. I'm no beginner, so I've coverd almost every angle. But here it goes. I want to mix 5.1 surround audio in Vegas, I have a 4.1 setup with a 5.1 simulated mode (THX Certified Altec Lansing model ADA885 speakers) I have a Santa Cruz (TurtleBeach) sound card. I've tried everything in Vegas to get the surround to work. But when I want a channel to go to the rear speakers they end up in the front speakers. When I watch DVD films I put the speaker model from 2 Speakers to SPDIF and it works great and sound even better. So, I pretty much narrowed it down to Vegas. It works good in Windows, and great on DVD's played on my computer. But It does not work in vegas. I went into OPTIONS -> PREFRENCES -> AUDIODEVICE. I have 3 options, 1. Microsoft sound mapper 2. Direct sound surround mapper 3. Windows Classic Wave driver. I have mine on Windows classic, it puts the Santa Cruz name in the feilds and it works best but still no surround. Anyone have any ideas to what this might be?

February 10th, 2004, 09:57 PM	#361
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Q1. I believe there is a more effective way to work in trimmer. How do YOU do it? I don't use the trimmer much, Instead I just drop the clip on the timeline and cut out the sections I don't want. Q2. Also, I noticed that markers createdin trimmer remain in the "cut" when moved to the timeline, but for some reason I can't read their labels. How can I access that info? You only access that through the explorer screen. Q3. Technical tip/question: I am using a 160Gb external drive to capture and edit. Initially I would render on the same drive. This however leads to the drive reading/writing small chunks of data from and to itself. Not optimal. Next I started rendering onto another physical drive and it worked much smoother. Any experience with this? What is your setting? 1 drive for everything or A for capturing/final storage and B for rendering_to. Two drives will, generally, be faster but I frequently render to the same drive. Depends on your workflow and number of drives available. Q4. I found it hard to manage alternate entries for the same cut. Say I want to see the timeline with cut A and immediately after that with cut B in order to make my mind of which one to keep. What's an effective way to do this without moving everything around? Duplicate timeline? I would recommend either putting them at the same location in the timeline on different tracks OR put them all in the same place as takes. You may also want to take a look at Excalibur if you are really doing multi-camera edits. Q5. How do I move a cut to a different place quickly? Insert Time? How do you do it? Not exactly sure what you mean here. If you mean you simply placed the cut in the wrong place, a quick way would be to make a new cut at the correct place, delete the bad footage, and then extend the good clip to the new cut spot. You may also want to look at holding down CTRL-ALT while dragging the cut point.

February 11th, 2004, 12:30 AM	#365
Dan Lahav Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: CA Posts: 172	it's common on many of the newer dvd burners... DVD Arch is in despirate need of an update

February 11th, 2004, 03:03 AM	#366
Duncan Wilson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Jersey, Channel Islands Posts: 41	Thanks Edward, I'll do that. In fact, Rob's method worked just fine, but returning to the default will be handy.

February 11th, 2004, 04:36 AM	#367
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	i have been outputting to full avi so then i can convert in QT, real or WMP9. I also use the AVI for making DVDs. I know i can output directly to mpeg2 or whatnot for dvd, but it seems easier to just make the AVI for the other formats so no intermediate compression is involved (maybe my thinking on this is incorrect). i do this too.. IMO, your not wrong. as the rendering is faster. Also with one file, its easier to segregate certain elements for later use such as promos and web stuff... and u jsut do a nice clean conversion without havnig to worr abotu actual rendering of effects etc.. thing is when i print to tape, i DONT use vegas or vidcap. Even though the capture in VidCap is faultless, im experiencing the same issue u are.. so now i use An old copy of pinnacle 7 to do this. It PTT seemeless without having to do anything.. so long as its AVI, it will transfer anything. U might be abel to find a free V capture/PTT app, but u can prolly find something liek pinnacle cheap now.. it doesnt have to be teh latest version.. even though i love Vegas to death (hell my business relies on it) it still has some issues. Im still waiting for them to fix architect..

February 11th, 2004, 04:40 AM	#368
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	use DVDRW and you shoudlnt have a problem.. this is a known issue.. there are MANY known issues.. i just wish they'd fix the bugger... WITH AN UPDATE.. not a new program that we have to pay for again..

February 11th, 2004, 04:48 AM	#369
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	what Edward says hit the nail on the head, but I don't use anything like Excalibur as I really have no need for it. Once you work out your own flow, you don't need anything, just a good quality optical mouse with a built in trackball :) Q1. I believe there is a more effective way to work in trimmer. How do YOU do it? ((don't use it.. click and drag ONE LONG AVI into the timeline (as mentioned.. ) do the split as you go along.. )) Q2. Also, I noticed that markers created in trimmer remain in the "cut" when moved to the timeline, but for some reason I can't read their labels. How can I access that info? ((Don't use them... when playing back, hit the M key to create a marker.. these can then be used as chapter points in DVD Architect if needed)) A few more questions: Q3. Technical tip/question: I am using a 160Gb external drive to capture and edit. Initially I would render on the same drive. This however leads to the drive reading/writing small chunks of data from and to itself. Not optimal. Next I started rendering onto another physical drive and it worked much smoother. Any experience with this? What is your setting? 1 drive for everything or A for capturing/final storage and B for rendering_to. ((I use 2 120gb HDD for my projects. Raws on one drive (along with projects, music and additional materials.. Final render goes to the other one, which ONLY carries Mastered footage and maybe some promo stuff.. Very quick.. )) Q4. I found it hard to manage alternate entries for the same cut. Say I want to see the timeline with cut A and immediately after that with cut B in order to make my mind of which one to keep. What's an effective way to do this without moving everything around? Duplicate timeline? ((No, create a new track, then use your mutes and solos with and without the footage in place.. when you make up your mind, just click and drag the one you want to keep )) Q5. How do I move a cut to a different place quickly? Insert Time? How do you do it? ((err.. cut and paste bro... :) ))

February 11th, 2004, 06:36 AM	#370
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Hey Trey, now I understand. I can't figure out why you're having a challenge right now but I get why you're rendering to AVI and then PTT. Good Luck, Don

February 11th, 2004, 09:10 AM	#371
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	If you do a PTT and then create a full separate AVI file, that file WILL be created much faster because all of the pre-renders used for the PTT process will be used when creating the new AVI file. So, the entire project would be a straight file copy. If you render to the separate AVI first, you would need to create the new project with the new AVI file or the PTT will require rendering each of the sections. I've not done any official testing but it DOES seem that rendering to MPEG2 is a lot faster from a separately create AVI file. Now, whether it's enough faster to warrant the creation of that file, you'd have to run some tests to determine.

February 11th, 2004, 09:18 AM	#372
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : there are MANY known issues.. i just wish they'd fix the bugger... WITH AN UPDATE.. not a new program that we have to pay for again.. -->>> Well, it works very well with a wide variety of burners. Most of the time when there is a problem, it's because of other DVD burning software being installed - particularly any packet writing type software. I would look there first. As for "MANY known issues", I'm not sure I'd go that far. There are SOME known issues but, overall, it does what it says it will do and is very stable. If I was a betting man, I would bet that the next version you see will be 2.0 and NOT 1.0e.

February 11th, 2004, 09:45 AM	#373
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : what Edward says hit the nail on the head, but I don't use anything like Excalibur as I really have no need for it. -->>> It is true that anything that Excalibur does can be done manually. However, the beauty of Excalibur is that it will automate the process so that things can be done more quickly and easily. I can tell you from experience that multi-cam editing is MUCH faster using Excalibur than by using the manual process I previously used. Are things like Excalibur needed? No. Are they helpful? Absolutely.

February 11th, 2004, 09:54 AM	#374
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Just note that ALL settings will be returned to default. So, you will also reset anything changed in Options - Preferences.