how do i capture material without KILLING my mini DV?

Peter Wright · September 30th, 2003, 10:08 PM

File > Save As ...

You can then tick a box to "Copy and trim media with project.

There is then another choice:
Copy source media OR Create trimmed copies of source media.

Selecting the second choice does the following:

Saves a new version of the project

Writes new media files using only those parts of clips you have actually used in the timeline, plus whatever Heads and Tails duration you choose - this allows minor adjustments to in/out points.

This means you can then delete the original captured footage, if you have no further use for it.

Glen Elliott · October 1st, 2003, 07:47 AM

Very nice- I did not know that! Thanks for the heads up.

Now when you choose this option is there any rendering that has to be done beings it's making new (Shorter) clips from the original long clips?

Peter Wright · October 1st, 2003, 08:54 AM

Yes - media for the whole project is rewritten, so rendering time depends on the programme duration and complexity ....

Glen Elliott · October 1st, 2003, 09:16 AM

So wait...how would it be any different than if I chopped a single large clip up into small peices and just simply ran "render as" compared to save as and clicking the "copy and trim media with project" tick box?

Edward Troxel · October 1st, 2003, 11:13 AM

Another difference is that the audio will converted to w64 and will no longer be grouped with the corresponding video. I like "render as" better.

Peter Wright · October 5th, 2003, 08:36 PM

Glen - the big difference is that Vegas does it automatically for you - if you have a program with hundreds of events it wouldn't be practical to go through rendering each one. And rendering to new track or new clip combines all simultaneous events into one, whereas save with trimmed media keeps each track as is.

But, the issue Ed raises of making audio W64 format is a complicatioon though - I don't know why it does this - does this mean the audio in events on the timeline is also W64 and separated from its video, Ed?

Peter

Edward Troxel · October 6th, 2003, 07:13 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Wright : does this mean the audio in events on the timeline is also W64 and separated from its video, Edward?

Peter -->>>

No. When you add an AVI clip, the audio is a part of that AVI file. Notice that when you do a PTT that the last step is the creation of a W64 file. My understanding is that W64 allows for large file sizes than WAV and is probably the reason it is used. Now as to why the W64 is created instead of just creating a separate AVI file with original audio, I do not know.

Glen Elliott · October 6th, 2003, 07:26 AM

Speaking of PTT, this maybe a bit OT but....say if you have footage thats already rendered or doesn't need rendering- when you go to PTT does it need to re-render it anyway for any reason?

Rob Lohman · October 6th, 2003, 07:26 AM

A WAV file has a maximum of 2 or 4 GB depending on certain
things. This runs down to 186 (3 hours) minutes or 378 (6 hours)
minutes of audio when using 48.000 hz, 16 bit stereo. You
can devide these numbers when going to 4 channel audio
(if you store it as incompressed wav).

W64 is a 64 bit version which moves the maximum filesize in
the terabyte range. You will need to be using an NTFS file
system though to store these files.

Why is a thing I don't have the answer to. Perhaps just to
be safe? Perhaps it is a setting you can change somewhere?

Edward Troxel · October 6th, 2003, 09:32 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Speaking of PTT, this maybe a bit OT but....say if you have footage thats already rendered or doesn't need rendering- when you go to PTT does it need to re-render it anyway for any reason? -->>>

It will only create the W64 file for the audio if everything has already been rendered and/or does not need rendering.

Adi Head · February 9th, 2004, 10:15 AM

the reason i am reviving this old post is that after all this time i still haven't come across the mentioned 'scene detection' feature in vegas 4.

i'll try here to explain once again what exactly i'm looking for:
let's say i have a dv tape with 40 minutes of recorded material for a short film. i capture the full 40 minutes of material in one go so that i don't have to stop and play my dv device repeatedly. but what i end up with is one big .avi file.

what i'm looking for is a way to capture the full 40 minutes in one go, but somehow have vegas detect the break between scenes and save the different scenes as seperate .avi files in the media bin. this way i can delete scenes i don't need and save disk space.
is there some way to do this?

if so, please explain how.

thanks,
adi

Edward Troxel · February 9th, 2004, 11:05 AM

Capture program - Options - Preferences - Capture tab. The very first option is "Enable Scene Detection" and is ON by default.

One thing to note: Scene Detection will ONLY work IF you have set the Date/Time in the camera! This is because it works by detecting jumps in the Date/Time (since the timecode will be continuous).

If you need optical scene detection, try Scenalyzer Live.

Adi Head · February 14th, 2004, 02:11 PM

it's me again.
i downloaded a trial version of scenalyzer live and tried it out.
as edward said, it can detect scenes optically (detecting the stop/rec pauses between shots). but it is not perfect. you can set the sensitivity level of the detector to one of four different levels. low sensitivity tends to miss breaks between shots and when sensitivity is set too high it breaks up single shots (especially where there is camera movement), which is no good.
after testing scenalyzer, set at different levels of sensitivity, i came to the sad conclusion that it couldn't capture even 5 minutes of material without misjudgments of scene detection (either too sensitive or not sensitive enough).

is it THAT difficult to create a scene detector that can detect breaks between shots flawlessly?

do you know of any other scene detector which might work better than scenalyzer?

i can't use vegas scene detection, because my material has the time code running and not the date/time.

thanks

Glenn Chan · February 14th, 2004, 03:10 PM

Why don't you do it manually this time and set the date/time on your camera?

There are some automation scripts over at the sundance media site that may help you export your stuff into individual files.

Check out the Vegas shortcuts sticky at this forum. The trim functions may be helpful.

Adi Head · February 14th, 2004, 04:32 PM

hi glenn. thanks for replying.

<<< Why don't you do it manually this time and set the date/time on your camera? >>>>

i don't do it manually, because i don't want to start, stop and rewind my dv camcorder (being used as a dv input device to my computer) all the time, wearing it out by doing so. unless i didn't get what you mean by "manually"

<<< There are some automation scripts over at the sundance media site that may help you export your stuff into individual files. >>>

i checked it out. couldn't find a script that does what i want. i do admit: i only went through as far as ten pages of files, and gave up. do you know of anything specific? is there no search engine in the sundance media site?

<<< Check out the Vegas shortcuts sticky at this forum. The trim functions may be helpful. >>>

not sure i understand how vegas shortcuts will help?

October 6th, 2003, 07:26 AM	#24
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	A WAV file has a maximum of 2 or 4 GB depending on certain things. This runs down to 186 (3 hours) minutes or 378 (6 hours) minutes of audio when using 48.000 hz, 16 bit stereo. You can devide these numbers when going to 4 channel audio (if you store it as incompressed wav). W64 is a 64 bit version which moves the maximum filesize in the terabyte range. You will need to be using an NTFS file system though to store these files. Why is a thing I don't have the answer to. Perhaps just to be safe? Perhaps it is a setting you can change somewhere? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 30th, 2003, 10:08 PM	#16
Peter Wright Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 193	File > Save As ... You can then tick a box to "Copy and trim media with project. There is then another choice: Copy source media OR Create trimmed copies of source media. Selecting the second choice does the following: Saves a new version of the project Writes new media files using only those parts of clips you have actually used in the timeline, plus whatever Heads and Tails duration you choose - this allows minor adjustments to in/out points. This means you can then delete the original captured footage, if you have no further use for it.

October 1st, 2003, 07:47 AM	#17
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Very nice- I did not know that! Thanks for the heads up. Now when you choose this option is there any rendering that has to be done beings it's making new (Shorter) clips from the original long clips?

October 1st, 2003, 08:54 AM	#18
Peter Wright Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 193	Yes - media for the whole project is rewritten, so rendering time depends on the programme duration and complexity ....

October 1st, 2003, 09:16 AM	#19
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	So wait...how would it be any different than if I chopped a single large clip up into small peices and just simply ran "render as" compared to save as and clicking the "copy and trim media with project" tick box?

October 1st, 2003, 11:13 AM	#20
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Another difference is that the audio will converted to w64 and will no longer be grouped with the corresponding video. I like "render as" better.

October 5th, 2003, 08:36 PM	#21
Peter Wright Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 193	Glen - the big difference is that Vegas does it automatically for you - if you have a program with hundreds of events it wouldn't be practical to go through rendering each one. And rendering to new track or new clip combines all simultaneous events into one, whereas save with trimmed media keeps each track as is. But, the issue Ed raises of making audio W64 format is a complicatioon though - I don't know why it does this - does this mean the audio in events on the timeline is also W64 and separated from its video, Ed? Peter

October 6th, 2003, 07:13 AM	#22
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Wright : does this mean the audio in events on the timeline is also W64 and separated from its video, Edward? Peter -->>> No. When you add an AVI clip, the audio is a part of that AVI file. Notice that when you do a PTT that the last step is the creation of a W64 file. My understanding is that W64 allows for large file sizes than WAV and is probably the reason it is used. Now as to why the W64 is created instead of just creating a separate AVI file with original audio, I do not know.

October 6th, 2003, 09:32 AM	#25
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Speaking of PTT, this maybe a bit OT but....say if you have footage thats already rendered or doesn't need rendering- when you go to PTT does it need to re-render it anyway for any reason? -->>> It will only create the W64 file for the audio if everything has already been rendered and/or does not need rendering.

February 9th, 2004, 10:15 AM	#26
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	the reason i am reviving this old post is that after all this time i still haven't come across the mentioned 'scene detection' feature in vegas 4. i'll try here to explain once again what exactly i'm looking for: let's say i have a dv tape with 40 minutes of recorded material for a short film. i capture the full 40 minutes of material in one go so that i don't have to stop and play my dv device repeatedly. but what i end up with is one big .avi file. what i'm looking for is a way to capture the full 40 minutes in one go, but somehow have vegas detect the break between scenes and save the different scenes as seperate .avi files in the media bin. this way i can delete scenes i don't need and save disk space. is there some way to do this? if so, please explain how. thanks, adi

February 9th, 2004, 11:05 AM	#27
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Capture program - Options - Preferences - Capture tab. The very first option is "Enable Scene Detection" and is ON by default. One thing to note: Scene Detection will ONLY work IF you have set the Date/Time in the camera! This is because it works by detecting jumps in the Date/Time (since the timecode will be continuous). If you need optical scene detection, try Scenalyzer Live.

February 14th, 2004, 02:11 PM	#28
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	it's me again. i downloaded a trial version of scenalyzer live and tried it out. as edward said, it can detect scenes optically (detecting the stop/rec pauses between shots). but it is not perfect. you can set the sensitivity level of the detector to one of four different levels. low sensitivity tends to miss breaks between shots and when sensitivity is set too high it breaks up single shots (especially where there is camera movement), which is no good. after testing scenalyzer, set at different levels of sensitivity, i came to the sad conclusion that it couldn't capture even 5 minutes of material without misjudgments of scene detection (either too sensitive or not sensitive enough). is it THAT difficult to create a scene detector that can detect breaks between shots flawlessly? do you know of any other scene detector which might work better than scenalyzer? i can't use vegas scene detection, because my material has the time code running and not the date/time. thanks

February 14th, 2004, 03:10 PM	#29
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Why don't you do it manually this time and set the date/time on your camera? There are some automation scripts over at the sundance media site that may help you export your stuff into individual files. Check out the Vegas shortcuts sticky at this forum. The trim functions may be helpful.

February 14th, 2004, 04:32 PM	#30
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	hi glenn. thanks for replying. <<< Why don't you do it manually this time and set the date/time on your camera? >>>> i don't do it manually, because i don't want to start, stop and rewind my dv camcorder (being used as a dv input device to my computer) all the time, wearing it out by doing so. unless i didn't get what you mean by "manually" <<< There are some automation scripts over at the sundance media site that may help you export your stuff into individual files. >>> i checked it out. couldn't find a script that does what i want. i do admit: i only went through as far as ten pages of files, and gave up. do you know of anything specific? is there no search engine in the sundance media site? <<< Check out the Vegas shortcuts sticky at this forum. The trim functions may be helpful. >>> not sure i understand how vegas shortcuts will help?