Issue with JPEG at DVinfo.net

Jeff Harper · March 14th, 2009, 03:29 PM

I'm working with a video for a large corporate client who has provided me a 2951x3160 jpeg for use in video.

The text in the bottom of the image are jagged when used as is in the video, a combination I suppose of the image being too large and the particular colors being used.

Obviously, before I even tried using it in the video I took it into Adobe Fireworks to resize but then the colors change. I opened in Irfanview and same thing, it turns yellow.
I can convert it to png, but there is still the issue of color change.

Please view images here.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/album.php?albumid=78

I normally don't use photoshop, but wonder if I installed photoshop and imported image into that program if colors would stay the same? I just don't normally use photoshop and hate to install it.

Don Bloom · March 14th, 2009, 03:53 PM

mmm strange the colors would change on the jpg. I have never seen that before. I just finished up short piece for a small company and the logo they snet me was absolutley HUGH! I mean megabig and when I brought into Vegas I got the famous red frames but after considerable resizing in Photoshop it worked fine. Oh yeah I also converted it to Png.

I've never used anything besides Photoshop to make adjustments like that so
I can't speak to Fireworks or Infranview but I have NEVER heard of the colors changing like that.

Mike Kujbida · March 14th, 2009, 03:56 PM

Jeff, is the image CMYK instead of RGB?
I've got Photoshop and would be glad to try it out for you.
I sent you a PM with my email address.

Bill Binder · March 14th, 2009, 04:06 PM

Is the text in the image "jaggie" when viewing in an image app (not vegas)?

If not, something's wrong. I use photos in vegas all the time, it's awesome.

Two tips, make sure your preview is on "Best" before you really declare it's jaggie. If preview or draft, then pics can look bad, when they actually are fine. Also, I usually render with the project on "best" quality when images are involved. It makes a difference.

Have you tried rendering anything out to see what it looks like rendered?

Jeff Harper · March 14th, 2009, 04:10 PM

Hi guys, in the photo gallery I linked above you can see the image as it appears rendered uncompressed.

I've e-mailed the image to Mike (thanks, Mike!). Image looks perfect in Windows Photo Viewer, but changes color when viewed in other apps.

What is also weird is even though it is a jpeg image it has transparecy qualities When I converted it to png and used alpha transparency setting it looked great, but unfortunately the colors are not correct.

I'm anxious to see what Mike finds.

Mike Kujbida · March 14th, 2009, 04:48 PM

The image was CMYK and wouldn't even load into Vegas 7.
Vegas 8 would accept it but it looked just like your second test image.
I converted it to RGB, loaded it into Vegas and it now looks like it's supposed to :-)
Jeff, I sent you the converted image as PNGs with and without an alpha channel.

Jeff Harper · March 14th, 2009, 05:06 PM

Wow, Mike, thanks. Guess I have a couple of things to learn about images. I need to find how to do this conversion in Fireworks, I'm sure there must be a way. Thanks again.

Mike Kujbida · March 14th, 2009, 05:24 PM

You're welcome Jeff.
I'm glad it was a simple fix.
BTW, I learned about the CMYK vs. RGB issue when people would send me CMYK graphics and I could never get them to load into Vegas until I discovered that I had to convert them.
Enjoy the rest of what looks like a nice weekend - about 5° warmer for you than me though :-(

Jeff Harper · March 15th, 2009, 12:16 AM

Well Mike I had another image with same issues. If Fireworks will convert CMYK to RGB, I couldn't find how. I installed Photoshop and quickly made the conversion, thanks to you.

Steve Renouf · March 15th, 2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

Well Mike I had another image with same issues. If Fireworks will convert CMYK to RGB, I couldn't find how. I installed Photoshop and quickly made the conversion, thanks to you.

Just a quick note for those that don't want to go out and spend a fortune on Photoshop just for the odd correction - the GIMP does an amazing job FOR FREE! And is available for Windoze, MAC and Linux .

John Cline · March 15th, 2009, 09:46 PM

The color selection on the line at the bottom, "people love to live in" is about the worst possible combination for video. A saturated solid color background with a text color from the opposite side of the color wheel is just asking for trouble. I'm pretty certain that what you describe as "pixellation" is in actuality blockiness caused by color sampling to a 4:2:0 or 4:1:1 colorspace.

This will be problematic is you render to DV which has a 4:1:1 colorspace and doubly problematic if you then render the DV file to MPEG2 for DVD which is a 4:2:0 colorspace, the resulting file will be at a 4:1:0 colorspace and look positively awful.

Also, make sure you set the "full resolution rendering quality" to "best" in the project properties. This will ensure that the graphic is resized at the highest possible quality.

Jeff Harper · March 15th, 2009, 10:10 PM

Thanks John. Since the images were converted from CMYK to RGB they are perfect in the video.

March 14th, 2009, 03:29 PM	#1
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Issue with JPEG I'm working with a video for a large corporate client who has provided me a 2951x3160 jpeg for use in video. The text in the bottom of the image are jagged when used as is in the video, a combination I suppose of the image being too large and the particular colors being used. Obviously, before I even tried using it in the video I took it into Adobe Fireworks to resize but then the colors change. I opened in Irfanview and same thing, it turns yellow. I can convert it to png, but there is still the issue of color change. Please view images here. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/album.php?albumid=78 I normally don't use photoshop, but wonder if I installed photoshop and imported image into that program if colors would stay the same? I just don't normally use photoshop and hate to install it.

March 14th, 2009, 03:53 PM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	mmm strange the colors would change on the jpg. I have never seen that before. I just finished up short piece for a small company and the logo they snet me was absolutley HUGH! I mean megabig and when I brought into Vegas I got the famous red frames but after considerable resizing in Photoshop it worked fine. Oh yeah I also converted it to Png. I've never used anything besides Photoshop to make adjustments like that so I can't speak to Fireworks or Infranview but I have NEVER heard of the colors changing like that. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

March 14th, 2009, 03:56 PM	#3
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Jeff, is the image CMYK instead of RGB? I've got Photoshop and would be glad to try it out for you. I sent you a PM with my email address.

March 14th, 2009, 04:06 PM	#4
Bill Binder Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 542	Is the text in the image "jaggie" when viewing in an image app (not vegas)? If not, something's wrong. I use photos in vegas all the time, it's awesome. Two tips, make sure your preview is on "Best" before you really declare it's jaggie. If preview or draft, then pics can look bad, when they actually are fine. Also, I usually render with the project on "best" quality when images are involved. It makes a difference. Have you tried rendering anything out to see what it looks like rendered?

March 14th, 2009, 04:10 PM	#5
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Hi guys, in the photo gallery I linked above you can see the image as it appears rendered uncompressed. I've e-mailed the image to Mike (thanks, Mike!). Image looks perfect in Windows Photo Viewer, but changes color when viewed in other apps. What is also weird is even though it is a jpeg image it has transparecy qualities When I converted it to png and used alpha transparency setting it looked great, but unfortunately the colors are not correct. I'm anxious to see what Mike finds.

March 14th, 2009, 04:48 PM	#6
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	The image was CMYK and wouldn't even load into Vegas 7. Vegas 8 would accept it but it looked just like your second test image. I converted it to RGB, loaded it into Vegas and it now looks like it's supposed to :-) Jeff, I sent you the converted image as PNGs with and without an alpha channel.

March 14th, 2009, 05:06 PM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Wow, Mike, thanks. Guess I have a couple of things to learn about images. I need to find how to do this conversion in Fireworks, I'm sure there must be a way. Thanks again.

March 14th, 2009, 05:24 PM	#8
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	You're welcome Jeff. I'm glad it was a simple fix. BTW, I learned about the CMYK vs. RGB issue when people would send me CMYK graphics and I could never get them to load into Vegas until I discovered that I had to convert them. Enjoy the rest of what looks like a nice weekend - about 5° warmer for you than me though :-(

March 15th, 2009, 12:16 AM	#9
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Well Mike I had another image with same issues. If Fireworks will convert CMYK to RGB, I couldn't find how. I installed Photoshop and quickly made the conversion, thanks to you.

March 15th, 2009, 09:46 PM	#11
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	The color selection on the line at the bottom, "people love to live in" is about the worst possible combination for video. A saturated solid color background with a text color from the opposite side of the color wheel is just asking for trouble. I'm pretty certain that what you describe as "pixellation" is in actuality blockiness caused by color sampling to a 4:2:0 or 4:1:1 colorspace. This will be problematic is you render to DV which has a 4:1:1 colorspace and doubly problematic if you then render the DV file to MPEG2 for DVD which is a 4:2:0 colorspace, the resulting file will be at a 4:1:0 colorspace and look positively awful. Also, make sure you set the "full resolution rendering quality" to "best" in the project properties. This will ensure that the graphic is resized at the highest possible quality.

March 15th, 2009, 10:10 PM	#12
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thanks John. Since the images were converted from CMYK to RGB they are perfect in the video.