Bugs in auto ripple ? at DVinfo.net

Ron Cooper · December 13th, 2008, 06:38 AM

With four synced vertical events added down the timeline, I find that with auto ripple turned ON, I am unable to pull them all back to the left in sync, - sometimes ?? On other occasions this is not a problem. Is there something I have left on or off to prevent this happening. It's as if the auto ripple was being overridden. ( I do have "All Tracks, Markers & Regions" turned on in it's menu as usual).

RonC.

Edward Troxel · December 13th, 2008, 08:52 AM

I always leave "Auto Ripple" turned OFF and, if I want to ripple, use the Post Edit Ripple options. I've found things are safer that way.

Christian de Godzinsky · December 13th, 2008, 12:31 PM

Manual post edit ripple is a safe way of doing it, certainly!

I also just want to warn you, there is still a bug in vegas that runs havoc your project, doing post ripple (letting the application move clips automatically in groups).

As long as your clips or files on the time lines have names using only standard ascii characters, you are fine. DOn't try do use the auto ripple (on manual post ripple) if the file names contains charachers as å, ä, ö... As a scandinavian person, it WAS quite natural to use these letters in my file names, but nowadays I avoid it like a pest.

It seems that this problem was NOT corrected in 8.0c. With 8.1 I never tested. It has to do with some internal sorting of the clips that occur and works wrong... The result is NEGATIVE usage numbers in the project file list... This WAS recognized by SCS as an error, but probably never had high enough priority to be fixed.... sigh...

Christian

Paul Kellett · December 13th, 2008, 09:21 PM

What's post edit ripple ?

Paul.

Mike Kujbida · December 14th, 2008, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

What's post edit ripple ?

F = Affected tracks.
Ctrl+F = Affected tracks, bus tracks, markers & regions.
Ctrl+Shift+F = All Tracks, markers & regions.

Paul Kellett · December 14th, 2008, 05:45 AM

Thanks Mike.
But i mean what's the differnce between post edit ripple and doing the ripple while i work ?
Why is post edit ripple meant to be safer ?

Thanks.
Paul.

Edward Troxel · December 14th, 2008, 07:15 AM

Because YOU can then control when the ripple occurs. Suppose you do two edits. On one of them you want the events to all move - do a post ripple edit to make them move. Suppose on the other one you just cut out something and everything else didn't need to move. With auto ripple turned on, they would anyway. With post ripple edit, you could choose to NOT ripple.

Shoot, most of the time I just select the events I want to move and manually move them. without using any ripple method (automatic OR post).

Mike Kujbida · December 14th, 2008, 07:53 AM

Paul, I've run into problems when Auto Ripple is accidentally turned on.
I've had students run into problems as well when they go into it and select a different option than I normally leave it set to (Ctrl+Shift+F).
The biggest issue is, when you're working on along timeline and you're zoomed in to the current section, you can't see what's happening further down.
If it's accidentally turned on, you can mess things up pretty bad.
Just ask my students :-(

Paul Kellett · December 14th, 2008, 08:46 AM

Ah yes i understand, thanks for the explanations, i've made those mistakes in the past, moved something then carried on editing the 5 mins later it's like WTF has happened, luckily i learnt the best way, (from my mistakes) and i rarely make mistakes with the ripple now.

While were on the subject of ripples, if i have loads of clips on the timeline, tens or even hundreds, and they've all got gaps between them, how do i close the gaps/ squash all the clips together at once ?
At the moment i switch on ripple and drag each clip to the left individually.

Thanks.

Paul.

Edward Troxel · December 14th, 2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

While were on the subject of ripples, if i have loads of clips on the timeline, tens or even hundreds, and they've all got gaps between them, how do i close the gaps/ squash all the clips together at once?

Using the Pro version, I use a script. Via a script I can make them all cuts or crossfades. A script is by far the easiest way.

Allan Black · December 14th, 2008, 03:42 PM

Thanks all, great thread.

Cheers,

Seth Bloombaum · December 14th, 2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

While were on the subject of ripples, if i have loads of clips on the timeline, tens or even hundreds, and they've all got gaps between them, how do i close the gaps/ squash all the clips together at once ?
At the moment i switch on ripple and drag each clip to the left individually.

Scripting is the fast & easy way to close gaps, as Edward pointed out.

If you are on Movie Studio versions of Vegas, without scripting:
1) Turn autoripple on, events, envelopes, markers, everything.
2) Double-click in a gap - this automatically selects the track and gap.
3) Hit the delete key, and watch autoripple pull everything together.

What's good about this method is that with the double-click selection, you know you've got the entire gap.

Edward Troxel · December 14th, 2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum

What's good about this method is that with the double-click selection, you know you've got the entire gap.

The bad thing about this method, you have to do it for EVERY gap!

Bill Binder · December 18th, 2008, 12:04 PM

getting back to the original question (which is relevant no matter if you have ripple on or if you post-edit ripple)...

I've found this behavior to be caused by the clips that you THINK are all completely lined up in sync exactly together ARE ACTUALLY NOT. I'll bet good money that if you zoom WAY into the start of the events, that they aren't actually perfectly aligned (i.e., once starts a frame later that the others or some such).

If you think about it for a sec, this makes perfect sense. If you had clips that weren't aligned, and you slid the clip that started later, the clips that started earlier would not ripple. That is the preferred behavior. So, this exact thing can happen even if they are only one frame apart, so it looks like they should go together, but they don't.

This same type of thing can happen when you are shortening/lengthening a GROUPED set of events. You think you would be shortening all of the grouped events, but only one moves.

Ron Cooper · December 19th, 2008, 04:55 AM

Bill, I can only sort of, understand your explanation, but surely it shouldn't matter whether the events are synced individually to each other or not. It is just a matter of them all moving together. If auto ripple is ON, then everything should move together and if there are differences of 6 frames between some events on the right further up the timeline, then after you do something on the left, - say create a space, then events on the right should all ripple to the left together so that the events that were on the right & 6 frames apart should still be 6 frames apart after they have rippled down.

This is what I have found happens MOST of the time when auto ripple is ON.

RonC.

December 13th, 2008, 06:38 AM	#1
Ron Cooper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 481	Bugs in auto ripple ? With four synced vertical events added down the timeline, I find that with auto ripple turned ON, I am unable to pull them all back to the left in sync, - sometimes ?? On other occasions this is not a problem. Is there something I have left on or off to prevent this happening. It's as if the auto ripple was being overridden. ( I do have "All Tracks, Markers & Regions" turned on in it's menu as usual). RonC.

December 13th, 2008, 08:52 AM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I always leave "Auto Ripple" turned OFF and, if I want to ripple, use the Post Edit Ripple options. I've found things are safer that way. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

December 13th, 2008, 12:31 PM	#3
Christian de Godzinsky Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Helsinki/Finland Posts: 131	Manual post edit ripple is a safe way of doing it, certainly! I also just want to warn you, there is still a bug in vegas that runs havoc your project, doing post ripple (letting the application move clips automatically in groups). As long as your clips or files on the time lines have names using only standard ascii characters, you are fine. DOn't try do use the auto ripple (on manual post ripple) if the file names contains charachers as å, ä, ö... As a scandinavian person, it WAS quite natural to use these letters in my file names, but nowadays I avoid it like a pest. It seems that this problem was NOT corrected in 8.0c. With 8.1 I never tested. It has to do with some internal sorting of the clips that occur and works wrong... The result is NEGATIVE usage numbers in the project file list... This WAS recognized by SCS as an error, but probably never had high enough priority to be fixed.... sigh... Christian __________________ The future does not exist - we must invent it !

December 13th, 2008, 09:21 PM	#4
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	What's post edit ripple ? Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

December 14th, 2008, 05:45 AM	#6
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Thanks Mike. But i mean what's the differnce between post edit ripple and doing the ripple while i work ? Why is post edit ripple meant to be safer ? Thanks. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

December 14th, 2008, 07:15 AM	#7
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Because YOU can then control when the ripple occurs. Suppose you do two edits. On one of them you want the events to all move - do a post ripple edit to make them move. Suppose on the other one you just cut out something and everything else didn't need to move. With auto ripple turned on, they would anyway. With post ripple edit, you could choose to NOT ripple. Shoot, most of the time I just select the events I want to move and manually move them. without using any ripple method (automatic OR post). __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

December 14th, 2008, 07:53 AM	#8
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Paul, I've run into problems when Auto Ripple is accidentally turned on. I've had students run into problems as well when they go into it and select a different option than I normally leave it set to (Ctrl+Shift+F). The biggest issue is, when you're working on along timeline and you're zoomed in to the current section, you can't see what's happening further down. If it's accidentally turned on, you can mess things up pretty bad. Just ask my students :-(

December 14th, 2008, 08:46 AM	#9
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Ah yes i understand, thanks for the explanations, i've made those mistakes in the past, moved something then carried on editing the 5 mins later it's like WTF has happened, luckily i learnt the best way, (from my mistakes) and i rarely make mistakes with the ripple now. While were on the subject of ripples, if i have loads of clips on the timeline, tens or even hundreds, and they've all got gaps between them, how do i close the gaps/ squash all the clips together at once ? At the moment i switch on ripple and drag each clip to the left individually. Thanks. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

December 14th, 2008, 03:42 PM	#11
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,927	Thanks all, great thread. Cheers,

December 18th, 2008, 12:04 PM	#14
Bill Binder Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 542	getting back to the original question (which is relevant no matter if you have ripple on or if you post-edit ripple)... I've found this behavior to be caused by the clips that you THINK are all completely lined up in sync exactly together ARE ACTUALLY NOT. I'll bet good money that if you zoom WAY into the start of the events, that they aren't actually perfectly aligned (i.e., once starts a frame later that the others or some such). If you think about it for a sec, this makes perfect sense. If you had clips that weren't aligned, and you slid the clip that started later, the clips that started earlier would not ripple. That is the preferred behavior. So, this exact thing can happen even if they are only one frame apart, so it looks like they should go together, but they don't. This same type of thing can happen when you are shortening/lengthening a GROUPED set of events. You think you would be shortening all of the grouped events, but only one moves.

December 19th, 2008, 04:55 AM	#15
Ron Cooper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 481	Bill, I can only sort of, understand your explanation, but surely it shouldn't matter whether the events are synced individually to each other or not. It is just a matter of them all moving together. If auto ripple is ON, then everything should move together and if there are differences of 6 frames between some events on the right further up the timeline, then after you do something on the left, - say create a space, then events on the right should all ripple to the left together so that the events that were on the right & 6 frames apart should still be 6 frames apart after they have rippled down. This is what I have found happens MOST of the time when auto ripple is ON. RonC.