I love Vegas but what others don't? at DVinfo.net

Larry Secrest · November 25th, 2008, 03:05 PM

I'm editing a film with Vegas 7e, shot in HDV, at my own pace, taking my time. I just love everything in Vegas. It does so much more that what I need and I have absolutely no complaint about this sofware.

But, having said that, I've start looking at job offers on Craig's list and everybody who is advertizing an editing position requires applicants to be fluent and proficient in FCP.
Why is that?
Do you think it's because Vegas is not known?
I had one interview in which I showed clips of my film to the prospective employer, he really likes what he saw, but I could tell he was kind of hesitant to hire me because I didn't use FCP to edit.
I can't believe this
What are your take on this?
Thanks
Larry

Jon McGuffin · November 25th, 2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Secrest

I'm editing a film with Vegas 7e, shot in HDV, at my own pace, taking my time. I just love everything in Vegas. It does so much more that what I need and I have absolutely no complaint about this sofware.

But, having said that, I've start looking at job offers on Craig's list and everybody who is advertizing an editing position requires applicants to be fluent and proficient in FCP.
Why is that?
Do you think it's because Vegas is not known?
I had one interview in which I showed clips of my film to the prospective employer, he really likes what he saw, but I could tell he was kind of hesitant to hire me because I didn't use FCP to edit.
I can't believe this
What are your take on this?
Thanks
Larry

I can believe it. FCP is essentially a standard. The reasons for this are numerous but mainly, it's a solid product. It has the marketing machine of Apple behind it. It was released on a platform (MAC) which has, in the past, been the machine of choice for the vast majority of graphic artists, etc.

I've been using Vegas now for about two years. I agree with you in that it's a great product but I think I'd have a hard time arguing that it's actually better than FCP. Besides, flame wars over what editor is better are usually suited to those with too much time on their hands. In the end, these software NLE editors are really just different tools to accomplish art. They are virtually do the 95% of about the same thing with the differences usually limited to 'extra's' that really aren't needed or just a different way of accomplishing the same task. If people spent more time trying to master their NLE of choice and less time studying to find which one is supposedly the best, there would be much better content out there.

Anyhow, from the employer's perspective, if they have to work you into a FCP team or workflow, they need you to know that software and for good reason. You should probably take the plunge and get FCP and learn it. You may find that your existing experience with Vegas will give you a quick learning curve there and may be able to integrate the two with whatever job you end up getting..

Jon

Perrone Ford · November 25th, 2008, 03:20 PM

Vegas is a great tool... as long as you do everything in Vegas. It's when you start having to collaborate that it really falls down. Now I say this as a fan of Vegas, and it's been my primary editing tool since Version 5. But when you need to integrate with other programs doing titling, audio, special effects, coloring, etc., it really shows it's limitations.

Andris Krastins · November 25th, 2008, 03:20 PM

I feel the requirement, although somewhat justified in some cases, is discriminatory to those, who can't afford an Apple computer, because there is no FCP for Windows or Linux (to my knowledge) and Vegas in itself is a world cheaper.
It's discriminating on the wealth of the worker, not his capability to get the job done (if it doesn't have to be done in a FCP environment-team).

In Latvia Adobe Premiere is more popular (very few people have macs), but I still like Vegas better.

Jon McGuffin · November 25th, 2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andris Krastins

I feel the requirement, although somewhat justified in some cases, is discriminatory to those, who can't afford an Apple computer, because there is no FCP for Windows or Linux (to my knowledge) and Vegas in itself is a world cheaper.
It's discriminating on the wealth of the worker, not his capability to get the job done (if it doesn't have to be done in a FCP environment-team).

In Latvia Adobe Premiere is more popular (very few people have macs), but I still like Vegas better.

Yeah, I'm sorry but bringing up discrimination here is just flat out absurd and a disgrace to legitimate discrimination claims. If the company moved their entire production environment over to Vegas, hired you and then some guy comes in using Ulead VideoStudio Pro for $49 and shows the boss he can do great work, should the boss then fire you and hire him? Afterall, he shouldn't discriminate right? Where does "discrimination" end?

I could go on, but need I say more?

Jon

Michael Wisniewski · November 25th, 2008, 03:32 PM

Yup that's just the way it is. Learn FCP, when you get a chance pickup Avid. I still love Vegas, but FCP and Avid are the standards.

Andris Krastins · November 25th, 2008, 03:35 PM

Nah, I agree with you - the workflow of the company comes first - but it's still discrimination based on wealth, not illegal, but it is, especially in such 3rd worldish countries, where cost of Apple computers and software is out of reach of ordinary citizens or students. Partly the reason why I think Adobe Premiere is more popular here - don't have to own a mac.

Larry Secrest · November 25th, 2008, 04:30 PM

Yep, I think I'm going to have to learn FCP then.
I have dual processor G4, do you think it's powerful enough to run the lastest edition of FCP and edit HDV with it?
Thanks
Larry

Jason Robinson · November 25th, 2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andris Krastins

Nah, I agree with you - the workflow of the company comes first - but it's still discrimination based on wealth, not illegal, but it is, especially in such 3rd worldish countries, where cost of Apple computers and software is out of reach of ordinary citizens or students. Partly the reason why I think Adobe Premiere is more popular here - don't have to own a mac.

how about "descrimination" based on skill set. If you wanted to hire a skipper for your 80' multi-million dollar yacht the application process would require applicants to have prior experience crewing a ship to that dimensions and managing the 4-5 sailors needed..... That is what is required. Yes very few people would have the prior experience. yes obtaining the experience is horribly expensive or involves getting in with a company that operates that sort of business so you can say you have the experience.

Bill Ravens · November 25th, 2008, 07:49 PM

what's up with DVINFO.NET? It hangs a lot. This was a double post because.....

Bill Ravens · November 25th, 2008, 07:52 PM

as a veteran of vegas since version 3, I think vegas was once a great tool, but, anymore it just plain sucks. The editting engine was designed to shine with DV. It's been patched and jury rigged for HD/HDV until it is a PITRA to use. Crashes and freezes are random and irritating. The most critical part, the preview window and scopes are unreliable and wrong. There's the fiasco their marketing gurus so nebulously call 32 bit float. No, Vegas is just a toy. Worst of all, Sony's customer support is a sham. There isn't any. IN typical Sony fashion, they woo you until you buy their product, then you're forgotten. I REALLY dislike anything Sony. And the Sony faithful are so typically co-dependent. Go figure.

You want REAL pro software, go with FCP or Avid. Sony and Adobe are the twin sisters. Use me and abuse me....no thanx. There's a reason FCP is making BIG inroads into serial television post production. And it ain't because Sony is so loved. Vegas is like a cheap suit, it feels good when you try it, but it wears out very, very fast.

John Cline · November 25th, 2008, 10:25 PM

I'm sorry to hear that you're having issues with Vegas. I haven't noticed that Vegas is any less stable than it has always been. I have Vegas, Avid MC and Premiere CS4 and when left to my own devices, I go straight for Vegas. It never crashes and I've used it to produce broadcast HD stuff seen regularly by millions.

Jon McGuffin · November 25th, 2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andris Krastins

Nah, I agree with you - the workflow of the company comes first - but it's still discrimination based on wealth, not illegal, but it is, especially in such 3rd worldish countries, where cost of Apple computers and software is out of reach of ordinary citizens or students. Partly the reason why I think Adobe Premiere is more popular here - don't have to own a mac.

hehe.. well, I certainly appreciate your right to an opposite opinion but I'm still baffled by your point. I suppose, quite frankly, the reason 3rd world countries are the way they are is possibly because most people there feel this way???? If this type of mentality were widespread I can't imagine the types of problems one would have. Maybe the company can claim discrimination on all their competators due to the fact they 'unfairly' have more money and use high end Avid systems and all they have are poor MAC's with FCP.

Michael Wisniewski · November 26th, 2008, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andris Krastins

I feel the requirement, although somewhat justified in some cases, is discriminatory to those, who can't afford an Apple computer

Don't use the gear as an excuse. You don't need to own a Mac to learn FCP.

Andris Krastins · November 26th, 2008, 04:50 AM

I'm not doing any excuses, just my opinion. I'm not applying for video editing work anywhere, and neither do I plan to do it, my profession is other, I'm a lawyer.

In Latvia there is a media program in Latvian Academy of Culture (the only film program in country) and they have some macs with FCP, but the tuition fees are even higher than to buy a mac - about USD 5000 a year - thus the same argument holds.

Most people in the field in this country have self taught video editing using pirated Adobe and Windows software on cheap, locally assembled pc's.

November 25th, 2008, 03:05 PM	#1
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	I love Vegas but what others don't? I'm editing a film with Vegas 7e, shot in HDV, at my own pace, taking my time. I just love everything in Vegas. It does so much more that what I need and I have absolutely no complaint about this sofware. But, having said that, I've start looking at job offers on Craig's list and everybody who is advertizing an editing position requires applicants to be fluent and proficient in FCP. Why is that? Do you think it's because Vegas is not known? I had one interview in which I showed clips of my film to the prospective employer, he really likes what he saw, but I could tell he was kind of hesitant to hire me because I didn't use FCP to edit. I can't believe this What are your take on this? Thanks Larry

November 25th, 2008, 03:20 PM	#3
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Vegas is a great tool... as long as you do everything in Vegas. It's when you start having to collaborate that it really falls down. Now I say this as a fan of Vegas, and it's been my primary editing tool since Version 5. But when you need to integrate with other programs doing titling, audio, special effects, coloring, etc., it really shows it's limitations. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

November 25th, 2008, 03:32 PM	#6
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Yup that's just the way it is. Learn FCP, when you get a chance pickup Avid. I still love Vegas, but FCP and Avid are the standards. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

November 25th, 2008, 04:30 PM	#8
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Yep, I think I'm going to have to learn FCP then. I have dual processor G4, do you think it's powerful enough to run the lastest edition of FCP and edit HDV with it? Thanks Larry Last edited by Larry Secrest; November 25th, 2008 at 06:06 PM.

November 25th, 2008, 10:25 PM	#12
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	I'm sorry to hear that you're having issues with Vegas. I haven't noticed that Vegas is any less stable than it has always been. I have Vegas, Avid MC and Premiere CS4 and when left to my own devices, I go straight for Vegas. It never crashes and I've used it to produce broadcast HD stuff seen regularly by millions. Last edited by John Cline; November 26th, 2008 at 03:10 AM.

November 25th, 2008, 03:20 PM	#4
Andris Krastins Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lielvārde, Latvia Posts: 326	I feel the requirement, although somewhat justified in some cases, is discriminatory to those, who can't afford an Apple computer, because there is no FCP for Windows or Linux (to my knowledge) and Vegas in itself is a world cheaper. It's discriminating on the wealth of the worker, not his capability to get the job done (if it doesn't have to be done in a FCP environment-team). In Latvia Adobe Premiere is more popular (very few people have macs), but I still like Vegas better.

November 25th, 2008, 03:35 PM	#7
Andris Krastins Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lielvārde, Latvia Posts: 326	Nah, I agree with you - the workflow of the company comes first - but it's still discrimination based on wealth, not illegal, but it is, especially in such 3rd worldish countries, where cost of Apple computers and software is out of reach of ordinary citizens or students. Partly the reason why I think Adobe Premiere is more popular here - don't have to own a mac.

November 25th, 2008, 07:49 PM	#10
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	what's up with DVINFO.NET? It hangs a lot. This was a double post because.....

November 25th, 2008, 07:52 PM	#11
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	as a veteran of vegas since version 3, I think vegas was once a great tool, but, anymore it just plain sucks. The editting engine was designed to shine with DV. It's been patched and jury rigged for HD/HDV until it is a PITRA to use. Crashes and freezes are random and irritating. The most critical part, the preview window and scopes are unreliable and wrong. There's the fiasco their marketing gurus so nebulously call 32 bit float. No, Vegas is just a toy. Worst of all, Sony's customer support is a sham. There isn't any. IN typical Sony fashion, they woo you until you buy their product, then you're forgotten. I REALLY dislike anything Sony. And the Sony faithful are so typically co-dependent. Go figure. You want REAL pro software, go with FCP or Avid. Sony and Adobe are the twin sisters. Use me and abuse me....no thanx. There's a reason FCP is making BIG inroads into serial television post production. And it ain't because Sony is so loved. Vegas is like a cheap suit, it feels good when you try it, but it wears out very, very fast.

November 26th, 2008, 04:50 AM	#15
Andris Krastins Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lielvārde, Latvia Posts: 326	I'm not doing any excuses, just my opinion. I'm not applying for video editing work anywhere, and neither do I plan to do it, my profession is other, I'm a lawyer. In Latvia there is a media program in Latvian Academy of Culture (the only film program in country) and they have some macs with FCP, but the tuition fees are even higher than to buy a mac - about USD 5000 a year - thus the same argument holds. Most people in the field in this country have self taught video editing using pirated Adobe and Windows software on cheap, locally assembled pc's.