What is the max. length/time for a DVD in Arch?

Mike Kujbida · November 15th, 2008, 11:48 AM

David, the numbers you quoted will work but, as your Avg rate is far lower than it needs to be, your image quality will suffer.
An Avg rate of 4,500,000 is what I use for a 2 hr. video.

David Delaney · November 15th, 2008, 11:49 AM

Each video really needs to go together, but if I have to span say video 1&2 on one DVD and video 3&4 on the other, it isn't the end of the world, but a compromise I am going to have to make. Ok, back to changing the bit rate again (thanks Mike). It is going to take around 3.5 hour for each to render and I am running out of time!

Garrett Low · November 15th, 2008, 12:10 PM

David,

If you can get another machine loaded with Vegas and start rendering the second disc at the same time. One thing I've learned over the years is to hope it goes smoothly but plan on problems.

A couple of tips if you haven't worked with DL discs before. The layer break has to occur at a point where you have a chapter on your DVD. If DVDA can't find a chapter it will kick out an error and won't let you create the DVD. It will tell you a range where it want's a chapter to be inserted. Just find a good point where you either change scens or have a good edit point where it goes black and insert a chapter point.

I've had some problems with compatability with the discs burned using DVDA. To get around this I use ImageBurn (a free program) which seems to give me the best luck in my DVD burning. For the shows I do I usually end up making about 100 to 200 copies of each disc so here is my usally workflow. Prepare the DVD using DVDA, use ImageBurn to create the master image, then burn the image to discs on multiple machines (upwards of 5 machines burning at once). A multidisc duplicator is on my wish list but the boss (aka the wife) hasn't approved it yet.

Good luck!

David Delaney · November 15th, 2008, 12:14 PM

I am not going with DL this time, maybe in the future. Right now, 10% done and 3 hours left and I have to work at 4:30...I need a miracle - and this is only one video

David Delaney · November 16th, 2008, 07:51 AM

Using Mark bitrate calculator, how are people determining the min ave and max rates? I choose Variable and see three numbers, but two are the same? The bottom left and the Average are both the same...

Ok, never mind, I can see it now. I am not sure why the bit rate for the Average and the Max are the same, but...

Mike Kujbida · November 16th, 2008, 08:06 AM

By "bottom left", do you mean the Minimum setting?
I choose the disk type I want (DVD-5 - SS/SL) and the AC-3 bitrate (192 Kb/S), set the length, choose either CBR or VBR and use the numbers it gives me.
I've modified mine by clicking the Settings box (bottom left of the main screen), setting the Safety Margin to 5%, clicking the 1 Kilobit = 1024 bits and setting the AC-3 bitrate to the figure I mentioned.
Everything else is left at their defaults.
For a 90 min. video, I get a CBR of 6168 and a VBR of 7712 / 6168 / 3696.

David Delaney · November 16th, 2008, 08:35 AM

Ok, I am getting close but not the same - where is the 1 1024 bits you said?

"setting the Safety Margin to 5%, clicking the 1 Kilobit = 1024 bits"

The safety, I can see and have changed but the Kilobit I don't see anywhere. Is it in the settings button?

For the audio, even though I am rendering it separately, do I include it in the calculations?

Now, this is what I get at 90 minutes:
3856 6432 8040

David Delaney · November 16th, 2008, 08:42 AM

Oh nevermind, when I switch back and forth between the setting menu, it sets all of the safe margin and audio back to defaults. Got it now. Thanks

BTW, what is DVD-5 mean? Shouldn't it be -R?

Mike Kujbida · November 16th, 2008, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Delaney

Ok, I am getting close but not the same - where is the 1 1024 bits you said?

"setting the Safety Margin to 5%, clicking the 1 Kilobit = 1024 bits"

The safety, I can see and have changed but the Kilobit I don't see anywhere. Is it in the settings button?

Yes. Click the Settings button. It's at the bottom left of the main screen.
Make sure to make your AC-3 selection on this new screen as well.

Quote:

For the audio, even though I am rendering it separately, do I include it in the calculations?

Yes. The size of the audio file needs to be factored into the calculation.

Quote:

Now, this is what I get at 90 minutes:
3856 6432 8040

If I don't include audio and don't have the "1 Kilobit = 1024 bits" option clicked, I get numbers very similar to yours.

David Delaney · November 16th, 2008, 08:54 AM

Mike, last question hopefully - can you specify the number of FILES on the DVD with the calculator? For example, I want to fit 2 video that are 1.5 hours each - how can I manage to figure out if that will fit using the calculator?

David Delaney · November 16th, 2008, 09:12 AM

This is getting strange. I rendered out the footage, just like you said with those settings, brought it into Arch and it says the BIT rate is too low, cannot render. I have it set properly, I don't get what is going on here?!

Mike Kujbida · November 16th, 2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Delaney

Mike, last question hopefully - can you specify the number of FILES on the DVD with the calculator? For example, I want to fit 2 video that are 1.5 hours each - how can I manage to figure out if that will fit using the calculator?

Set the length to 3 hr.
However, IMO that makes the Avg. bitrate (what determines the overall quality) too low.
I'd do a short test render though and see if it meets your standards.

Mike Kujbida · November 16th, 2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Delaney

This is getting strange. I rendered out the footage, just like you said with those settings, brought it into Arch and it says the BIT rate is too low, cannot render. I have it set properly, I don't get what is going on here?!

Ray Paula is having the same issues in the "Help Please! Error DVDA Bitrate Too Low??" thread, a few below this one as well as a poster on the Cow Vegas forum.
I've never seen that message so I don't know what to tell you.
Hopefully our resident DVDA expert, Edward Troxel, will jump in and offer some advice.

David Delaney · November 16th, 2008, 10:09 AM

I went over to the forum and read some posts, thanks for that - I guess what I am discovering is that putting 3 hours on one DVD is going to give me results that are like a VHS tape. That sucks. I was thinking about using your settings (of an average of 4.5kb for the 1.5hours X 2video, but that seems like it will be too big for the DVD to shrink.
The calc. I got for 3 hours is :

2168 min
2888 ave
5784 max

I just thought of something : if I use the bit calculator to render out the stream, does it still need to be prepare in Arch or is it ok just to MAKE DISK from that point?

David Delaney · November 16th, 2008, 12:39 PM

I am going to try a constant bit rate of 2,984,000 like Mike suggested instead of variable BR and see what happens. I also have been getting crashes with Vegas about 1/2 through my render which doesn't help my cause so I am going have to look into that. This is taking me much too long (3+ hours for the first part of it and I have 3 more parts to go!).

I am also going to render on another computer to see if the issue lies with my computer...

November 16th, 2008, 10:09 AM	#29
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	I went over to the forum and read some posts, thanks for that - I guess what I am discovering is that putting 3 hours on one DVD is going to give me results that are like a VHS tape. That sucks. I was thinking about using your settings (of an average of 4.5kb for the 1.5hours X 2video, but that seems like it will be too big for the DVD to shrink. The calc. I got for 3 hours is : 2168 min 2888 ave 5784 max I just thought of something : if I use the bit calculator to render out the stream, does it still need to be prepare in Arch or is it ok just to MAKE DISK from that point? Last edited by David Delaney; November 16th, 2008 at 10:46 AM.

November 15th, 2008, 11:48 AM	#16
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	David, the numbers you quoted will work but, as your Avg rate is far lower than it needs to be, your image quality will suffer. An Avg rate of 4,500,000 is what I use for a 2 hr. video.

November 15th, 2008, 11:49 AM	#17
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Each video really needs to go together, but if I have to span say video 1&2 on one DVD and video 3&4 on the other, it isn't the end of the world, but a compromise I am going to have to make. Ok, back to changing the bit rate again (thanks Mike). It is going to take around 3.5 hour for each to render and I am running out of time!

November 15th, 2008, 12:10 PM	#18
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	David, If you can get another machine loaded with Vegas and start rendering the second disc at the same time. One thing I've learned over the years is to hope it goes smoothly but plan on problems. A couple of tips if you haven't worked with DL discs before. The layer break has to occur at a point where you have a chapter on your DVD. If DVDA can't find a chapter it will kick out an error and won't let you create the DVD. It will tell you a range where it want's a chapter to be inserted. Just find a good point where you either change scens or have a good edit point where it goes black and insert a chapter point. I've had some problems with compatability with the discs burned using DVDA. To get around this I use ImageBurn (a free program) which seems to give me the best luck in my DVD burning. For the shows I do I usually end up making about 100 to 200 copies of each disc so here is my usally workflow. Prepare the DVD using DVDA, use ImageBurn to create the master image, then burn the image to discs on multiple machines (upwards of 5 machines burning at once). A multidisc duplicator is on my wish list but the boss (aka the wife) hasn't approved it yet. Good luck!

November 15th, 2008, 12:14 PM	#19
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	I am not going with DL this time, maybe in the future. Right now, 10% done and 3 hours left and I have to work at 4:30...I need a miracle - and this is only one video

November 16th, 2008, 07:51 AM	#20
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Using Mark bitrate calculator, how are people determining the min ave and max rates? I choose Variable and see three numbers, but two are the same? The bottom left and the Average are both the same... Ok, never mind, I can see it now. I am not sure why the bit rate for the Average and the Max are the same, but...

November 16th, 2008, 08:06 AM	#21
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	By "bottom left", do you mean the Minimum setting? I choose the disk type I want (DVD-5 - SS/SL) and the AC-3 bitrate (192 Kb/S), set the length, choose either CBR or VBR and use the numbers it gives me. I've modified mine by clicking the Settings box (bottom left of the main screen), setting the Safety Margin to 5%, clicking the 1 Kilobit = 1024 bits and setting the AC-3 bitrate to the figure I mentioned. Everything else is left at their defaults. For a 90 min. video, I get a CBR of 6168 and a VBR of 7712 / 6168 / 3696.

November 16th, 2008, 08:35 AM	#22
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Ok, I am getting close but not the same - where is the 1 1024 bits you said? "setting the Safety Margin to 5%, clicking the 1 Kilobit = 1024 bits" The safety, I can see and have changed but the Kilobit I don't see anywhere. Is it in the settings button? For the audio, even though I am rendering it separately, do I include it in the calculations? Now, this is what I get at 90 minutes: 3856 6432 8040

November 16th, 2008, 08:42 AM	#23
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Oh nevermind, when I switch back and forth between the setting menu, it sets all of the safe margin and audio back to defaults. Got it now. Thanks BTW, what is DVD-5 mean? Shouldn't it be -R?

November 16th, 2008, 08:54 AM	#25
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Mike, last question hopefully - can you specify the number of FILES on the DVD with the calculator? For example, I want to fit 2 video that are 1.5 hours each - how can I manage to figure out if that will fit using the calculator?

November 16th, 2008, 09:12 AM	#26
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	This is getting strange. I rendered out the footage, just like you said with those settings, brought it into Arch and it says the BIT rate is too low, cannot render. I have it set properly, I don't get what is going on here?!

November 16th, 2008, 12:39 PM	#30
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	I am going to try a constant bit rate of 2,984,000 like Mike suggested instead of variable BR and see what happens. I also have been getting crashes with Vegas about 1/2 through my render which doesn't help my cause so I am going have to look into that. This is taking me much too long (3+ hours for the first part of it and I have 3 more parts to go!). I am also going to render on another computer to see if the issue lies with my computer...