64Bit....not seeing a boost

Jeff Harper · November 10th, 2008, 08:08 AM

Roger, I don't have any .m2t files or I would be happy to do that for you. If you want I'll test a plain avi file render to mpeg2 using the dvda template. let me know and I'll be glad to do that.

Jeff Harper · November 10th, 2008, 12:31 PM

Roger, I had to back off on my overclock. But nevertheless I rendered a 105 minute video with 425 clips and plenty of transitions of various types in 17 minutes and 40 seconds while on the net and running several other programs simultaneously. That should give you some kind of benchmark to start. I know that my previous dual core 3.2 rendering time was usually the same as the length of the video. So in this instance I saved 80 minutes from my previous processor.

Your processor isn't bad at all. You wouldn't notice much difference in applications other than Vegas, possibly. But since Vegas uses all four cores, you would enjoy significant improvement in rendering and some improvement in the preview experience, I believe.

Like all of us, you'll live with what you have as long as you can, and when a good deal comes along you'll jump on it! Heck, Intel has some crazy new processors on the way, you might be better off waiting!

Jon McGuffin · November 10th, 2008, 08:44 PM

Yeah, the new i7 processors from Intel are just absurd in terms of performance goes. The price of the chips is competative, the problem is that they are forcing you to DDR3 and also a new motherboard as these chips are significantly larger. I frankly don't think now is the best time to be buying something if you can live without. Early next year, prices for DDR3 should start to work their way down and I would think for about $600 you could pickup the memory, processor and chip that'll blow away (by about a 25% margin clock-to-clock) than what is available now...

I'm kinda hoping Sony will release a better version of Vegas Pro that will help in the performance area in regards to 64-bit computing + preview performance.

Jon

Roger Shealy · November 11th, 2008, 04:10 PM

Thanks Jon. I'm not big on upgrading computers, I have a "rotation" where I buy a really hot machine about every 2 years, rotate the previous hot machine for my kids to use, and the previous not-so-hot machine from 4 years ago to a browser, WP machine. I tend to buy all the memory, processors, drives, and most of the software and keep it as a package so it works together and chunk it in the trash together.

Question for me is, do I go the PC route again, or buy a Mac with CS4 and give that platform a whirl? I like Vegas a lot and would likely continue to use it on my current system and maybe even run "Parallel" on the Mac with a windows system in addition to FC & CS4.

Jon McGuffin · November 11th, 2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Shealy

Thanks Jon. I'm not big on upgrading computers, I have a "rotation" where I buy a really hot machine about every 2 years, rotate the previous hot machine for my kids to use, and the previous not-so-hot machine from 4 years ago to a browser, WP machine. I tend to buy all the memory, processors, drives, and most of the software and keep it as a package so it works together and chunk it in the trash together.

Question for me is, do I go the PC route again, or buy a Mac with CS4 and give that platform a whirl? I like Vegas a lot and would likely continue to use it on my current system and maybe even run "Parallel" on the Mac with a windows system in addition to FC & CS4.

Roger, we basically do the exact same thing. I, along with you, don't really spend much time upgrading my existing rig. I buy something semi-state of the art every 2-3 years and hand my unit down to the family computer, and take the family computer and donate it essentially.. Nice to know I'm not the only guy out there doing this! :)

If you jump ship from the PC, I would think you'd be best off going with Final Cut over CS4. I only say this because having seen FC in action, it looks pretty nice and is the obvious standard not only on the MAC but pretty much the industry. If you stay with a PC, then I think things change a little. You'd have to really look into CS4 but if not that, I'm sure Vegas is the next obvious choice and certainly the value choice.

Roger Shealy · November 12th, 2008, 09:47 PM

Jon,

I misspoke. I meant to infer I would use FCPro and the Adobe suite.

Vegas works pretty well though, so I may stick with it and the PC if I don't see myself collaborating more with others. I am very curious about the Apple environment though.

Jeff Harper · November 13th, 2008, 03:33 AM

I upgrade when it is cost effective. As a full-time editor in a one man shop my system requirements are such that it would be too expensive to get these specifics in an off-the-shelf workstation. If I were a casual user I would just buy something off the shelf.

In my case I just spent $600 to upgrade to a PC that would have easily cost me triple or more.

For example: my PC has 8 internal HDs totalling nearly 7TB in size, built in Raid, and a decent PSU. I also run multiple external large hard drives, broadcast monitor, etc. As a result I need a workstation that is powerful and flexible.

It is nearly impossible to find a workstation with the specs I need for less than $2-4K. In fact, simply finding a workstation that would accomodate 8 HDs and run them without heat issues would be a challenge unto itself. Add in the RAID and large PSU and you're really talking serious money. As a bonus I'm running a Quad core cpu at 3.0, and while it is certainly not the fastest, it is pretty darn fast. In a year or so I'll swap out motherboard, cpu and ram and again for under $1000 I'll have a great workstation.

Roger Shealy · November 13th, 2008, 05:57 AM

Jeff,

When you swap out CPU and motherboard, do you have to reload new OS and all that software again, or does it integrate with what's on the old drives?

Also, how is your relationship with Vegas after looking over the fence for a while?

Jeff Harper · November 13th, 2008, 08:41 AM

You must reload your OS. It is possible you would have to buy a new key, but not for sure. Because you would have a new mobo, windows would force you to call for activation. I have heard there are different policies for XP and Vista.

The question you ask shows that you are coming from a place of inexperience with these relatively basic issues and your road in rebuilding could be long and unnecessarily difficult. Don't do it unless you are looking for a new hobby OR unless you are one of those bright people who catch on to new concepts quickly and who learns fast.

It can get real complicated and messy. I lived with a bad configuration once for over a year, and it was awful. I am a slow learner (I really am) and getting to where I currently am in this process has taken years and has cost me many thousands of dollars. My original builds were all SCSI systems and in those days I didn't seem to experience anywhere near the compatability issues that seem to exist today with components.

The worst part is you can have your new computer not boot up and the cause could be any one of these things: Bad memory (but then, which stick?) bad motherboard, bad power supply, bad processor. And since you built it yourself you have no one to help you. You can visit forums, etc, but is that how you want to spend your early morning hours? Let me tell you, it can truly be a nightmare and reduce a grown man to tears. I never want to go through the first couple of years of building PCs again.

The most awful feeling in the world is having built your new PC and turning it on for the first time and then it makes a bunch of strange noises and shuts down.

That being said, my new build is superb. The case if fanatstic as it will hold nearly anthing.
The components are matched perfectly. It runs more quietly than any PC I've ever owned and it the most stable now that I've got the first few bugs out. I'm actually happier with this machine than any I've ever owned. I was happy with my Dell for a while, but when I added on things it bogged down and became unstable. People who I argued with on this forum were correct: the power supply was to wimpy. I was wrong and I admit it.

If you decide to DIY just get good guidelines on how to select components, etc and buy as much as possible locally so that if you have to return a component you don't have to wait a month to get it replace while your PC is down.

Regarding Vegas Ron, I am happy with it for now. I went through a period of dissatisfaction because of the amazing things I saw being done on FCP by my friends, particularly with DVD menus. One friend in particular turns out average quality quality weddings, but his 3-d DVD menus just blow away potential customers. The lack of plug-ins for Vegas was also very bothersome, but I now try not to focus on those things.

I am soon going to reinstall PPro and play with it, as the plug-ins available are numerous. But as I remember it was absolutely no fun at all to work with and it was time consuming to do the simplest things.

Vegas is so fast, and I get so behind in my editing as it is, I can't imagine abandoning it anytime soon.

Jonathan Gentry · November 17th, 2008, 11:58 PM

This is a bit off topic but just wanted to let everyone know the new Core i7 from intel is supposed to give a 40% improvement clock for clock in video encoding and 3d applications. It may make better use of 64 bit archetecture and the updated 8.1 version of Vegas.

-Jonathan

Erik Phairas · November 18th, 2008, 12:13 AM

I went 64bit a while back and I noticed right away it was faster. No not and day or anything but a nice gain. I have a quad core and so on.

One thing I was doing a video with a crapload of edits on the 32bit vegas and had to play with the video ram to get it to render, no such troubles on the 64bit. I get to use all 6 gigs of ram. Plus the preview window is smoother too, I can watch AVCHD all full frame rate..

Preview window test with AVCHD from an HDR SR11, in my opinion one of the best tests for such a thing... LOL

With Preview set to full - full frame rate 1080 AVCHD
With Good set to full - full frame rate 1080 AVCHD
With Best set to full - looks like it drops a 3rd maybe, not full frame rate.

EDIT: actually if I set the project settings to a 1080 timeline, it will play at nearly full framerate even at Best set to full.

Jeff Harper · November 18th, 2008, 06:04 AM

If you're thinking about upgrading for faster Vegas performance, the new i7 chips are now available.

Priced at $599 at 2.93GHz they are a steal.

Of course I just bought my new motherboard which is Socket 775 and cannot accomodate these chips!

The downside to this upgrade is price only. DDR3 memory is still expensive.

November 13th, 2008, 03:33 AM	#22
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I upgrade when it is cost effective. As a full-time editor in a one man shop my system requirements are such that it would be too expensive to get these specifics in an off-the-shelf workstation. If I were a casual user I would just buy something off the shelf. In my case I just spent $600 to upgrade to a PC that would have easily cost me triple or more. For example: my PC has 8 internal HDs totalling nearly 7TB in size, built in Raid, and a decent PSU. I also run multiple external large hard drives, broadcast monitor, etc. As a result I need a workstation that is powerful and flexible. It is nearly impossible to find a workstation with the specs I need for less than $2-4K. In fact, simply finding a workstation that would accomodate 8 HDs and run them without heat issues would be a challenge unto itself. Add in the RAID and large PSU and you're really talking serious money. As a bonus I'm running a Quad core cpu at 3.0, and while it is certainly not the fastest, it is pretty darn fast. In a year or so I'll swap out motherboard, cpu and ram and again for under $1000 I'll have a great workstation. Last edited by Jeff Harper; November 13th, 2008 at 08:10 AM.

November 13th, 2008, 08:41 AM	#24
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	You must reload your OS. It is possible you would have to buy a new key, but not for sure. Because you would have a new mobo, windows would force you to call for activation. I have heard there are different policies for XP and Vista. The question you ask shows that you are coming from a place of inexperience with these relatively basic issues and your road in rebuilding could be long and unnecessarily difficult. Don't do it unless you are looking for a new hobby OR unless you are one of those bright people who catch on to new concepts quickly and who learns fast. It can get real complicated and messy. I lived with a bad configuration once for over a year, and it was awful. I am a slow learner (I really am) and getting to where I currently am in this process has taken years and has cost me many thousands of dollars. My original builds were all SCSI systems and in those days I didn't seem to experience anywhere near the compatability issues that seem to exist today with components. The worst part is you can have your new computer not boot up and the cause could be any one of these things: Bad memory (but then, which stick?) bad motherboard, bad power supply, bad processor. And since you built it yourself you have no one to help you. You can visit forums, etc, but is that how you want to spend your early morning hours? Let me tell you, it can truly be a nightmare and reduce a grown man to tears. I never want to go through the first couple of years of building PCs again. The most awful feeling in the world is having built your new PC and turning it on for the first time and then it makes a bunch of strange noises and shuts down. That being said, my new build is superb. The case if fanatstic as it will hold nearly anthing. The components are matched perfectly. It runs more quietly than any PC I've ever owned and it the most stable now that I've got the first few bugs out. I'm actually happier with this machine than any I've ever owned. I was happy with my Dell for a while, but when I added on things it bogged down and became unstable. People who I argued with on this forum were correct: the power supply was to wimpy. I was wrong and I admit it. If you decide to DIY just get good guidelines on how to select components, etc and buy as much as possible locally so that if you have to return a component you don't have to wait a month to get it replace while your PC is down. Regarding Vegas Ron, I am happy with it for now. I went through a period of dissatisfaction because of the amazing things I saw being done on FCP by my friends, particularly with DVD menus. One friend in particular turns out average quality quality weddings, but his 3-d DVD menus just blow away potential customers. The lack of plug-ins for Vegas was also very bothersome, but I now try not to focus on those things. I am soon going to reinstall PPro and play with it, as the plug-ins available are numerous. But as I remember it was absolutely no fun at all to work with and it was time consuming to do the simplest things. Vegas is so fast, and I get so behind in my editing as it is, I can't imagine abandoning it anytime soon. Last edited by Jeff Harper; November 13th, 2008 at 02:35 PM.

November 17th, 2008, 11:58 PM	#25
Jonathan Gentry Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 183	Throwing this out there... This is a bit off topic but just wanted to let everyone know the new Core i7 from intel is supposed to give a 40% improvement clock for clock in video encoding and 3d applications. It may make better use of 64 bit archetecture and the updated 8.1 version of Vegas. -Jonathan

November 10th, 2008, 08:08 AM	#16
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Roger, I don't have any .m2t files or I would be happy to do that for you. If you want I'll test a plain avi file render to mpeg2 using the dvda template. let me know and I'll be glad to do that.

November 10th, 2008, 12:31 PM	#17
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Roger, I had to back off on my overclock. But nevertheless I rendered a 105 minute video with 425 clips and plenty of transitions of various types in 17 minutes and 40 seconds while on the net and running several other programs simultaneously. That should give you some kind of benchmark to start. I know that my previous dual core 3.2 rendering time was usually the same as the length of the video. So in this instance I saved 80 minutes from my previous processor. Your processor isn't bad at all. You wouldn't notice much difference in applications other than Vegas, possibly. But since Vegas uses all four cores, you would enjoy significant improvement in rendering and some improvement in the preview experience, I believe. Like all of us, you'll live with what you have as long as you can, and when a good deal comes along you'll jump on it! Heck, Intel has some crazy new processors on the way, you might be better off waiting!

November 10th, 2008, 08:44 PM	#18
Jon McGuffin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 634	Yeah, the new i7 processors from Intel are just absurd in terms of performance goes. The price of the chips is competative, the problem is that they are forcing you to DDR3 and also a new motherboard as these chips are significantly larger. I frankly don't think now is the best time to be buying something if you can live without. Early next year, prices for DDR3 should start to work their way down and I would think for about $600 you could pickup the memory, processor and chip that'll blow away (by about a 25% margin clock-to-clock) than what is available now... I'm kinda hoping Sony will release a better version of Vegas Pro that will help in the performance area in regards to 64-bit computing + preview performance. Jon

November 11th, 2008, 04:10 PM	#19
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Thanks Jon. I'm not big on upgrading computers, I have a "rotation" where I buy a really hot machine about every 2 years, rotate the previous hot machine for my kids to use, and the previous not-so-hot machine from 4 years ago to a browser, WP machine. I tend to buy all the memory, processors, drives, and most of the software and keep it as a package so it works together and chunk it in the trash together. Question for me is, do I go the PC route again, or buy a Mac with CS4 and give that platform a whirl? I like Vegas a lot and would likely continue to use it on my current system and maybe even run "Parallel" on the Mac with a windows system in addition to FC & CS4.

November 12th, 2008, 09:47 PM	#21
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Jon, I misspoke. I meant to infer I would use FCPro and the Adobe suite. Vegas works pretty well though, so I may stick with it and the PC if I don't see myself collaborating more with others. I am very curious about the Apple environment though.

November 13th, 2008, 05:57 AM	#23
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Jeff, When you swap out CPU and motherboard, do you have to reload new OS and all that software again, or does it integrate with what's on the old drives? Also, how is your relationship with Vegas after looking over the fence for a while?

November 18th, 2008, 12:13 AM	#26
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	I went 64bit a while back and I noticed right away it was faster. No not and day or anything but a nice gain. I have a quad core and so on. One thing I was doing a video with a crapload of edits on the 32bit vegas and had to play with the video ram to get it to render, no such troubles on the 64bit. I get to use all 6 gigs of ram. Plus the preview window is smoother too, I can watch AVCHD all full frame rate.. Preview window test with AVCHD from an HDR SR11, in my opinion one of the best tests for such a thing... LOL With Preview set to full - full frame rate 1080 AVCHD With Good set to full - full frame rate 1080 AVCHD With Best set to full - looks like it drops a 3rd maybe, not full frame rate. EDIT: actually if I set the project settings to a 1080 timeline, it will play at nearly full framerate even at Best set to full.

November 18th, 2008, 06:04 AM	#27
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	If you're thinking about upgrading for faster Vegas performance, the new i7 chips are now available. Priced at $599 at 2.93GHz they are a steal. Of course I just bought my new motherboard which is Socket 775 and cannot accomodate these chips! The downside to this upgrade is price only. DDR3 memory is still expensive.