Rendering lossless avi and mov files in 16:9 at DVinfo.net

Glen Maw · September 26th, 2008, 01:26 AM

Hi, I'm working on a PAL DV Widescreen project, which I'm handing over to an animator who wants it delivered in the highest possible quality. He has suggested the quicktime animation codec. I am using vegas 7 and my renders in mov always look steppy. When I select PAL DV widescreen and select the aspect ratio 1.457, I get a widescreen project but it looks awful. I thought it must be a problem with Vegas 7, because I always have difficulties rendering mov files. I downloaded a trial version of vegas 8 and rendered with the same properties, and the video is a high quality - I can't see any loss of detail - but it only seems to render in 4:3 not 16:9.

I am also trying to render an uncompressed AVI as another option for him. I have the same issue with not being able to render to widescreen. i.e. it comes out squeezed.

I have dropped both of these files into a new vegas timeline and changed the clip properties from PAL standard aspect ratio to PAL widescreen and they change to widescreen. Should I tell the animator to do the same (I think he is working in after effects), or is there a way of rendering out lossless files which are widescreen?

Paul Fierlinger · September 26th, 2008, 04:57 AM

I render out my animations from Vegas in wide screen AVI all the time. I use the MainConcept MPEG-2 m2t template in the "Render As" panel, making sure I have the Aspect Ratio set to 16:9 Display under the Video Tab; Output type HDV, and make also sure your field order is Progressive, since it's for animation.

Glen Maw · September 26th, 2008, 05:48 AM

Thanks Paul

But I'm not editing animations myself. It's DV widescreen (not HDV) which an animator is going to composite over. M2T is an HDV file. I'm pretty sure that it's not lossless either. Thanks for your suggestion though.

Glen

Paul Fierlinger · September 26th, 2008, 06:05 AM

I understand, but if your animator needs widescreen to animate upon, why can't you supply him with an HDV 16:9 format?

Ben Longden · September 26th, 2008, 07:22 AM

If he really needs lossless, then its going to be a big file.
Ask him if they can accept it rendered as a plain old ordinary .avi file?

Then all you have to do is ensure its 25fps, PAL and 16:9

That surely would save a lot of messing around, as he can then do what he needs and render as required.

Otherwise, get him to be very specific about the format and the bitrate. (eg; MPEG2, Audio and Video at 25Mbps in 16;9)

Ben

Glen Maw · September 26th, 2008, 07:02 PM

I think he's ok with a big file. I gave him a PAL DV widescreen AVI render and he said he wanted it in a higher quality. The clip is a 3 minute music video: 670MB for the AVI widescreen render -which will be higher quality than an Mp2 due to the heavy compression of mpeg files -the AVI uncompressed is about 7GB. He's working on studio quality gear, so I don't think the size is an issue as much as the quality. He is going to animate over the top of the video - cheesy glowing eyes, sparkling teeth etc.

The main thing I want to know is: Is it possible to render lossless avi or mov files which remain in the project's 16:9? (I always make sure my custom render properties are set to widescreen, but I always end up with 4:3) When I render dv widescreen avi or mp2 or other lossy files they come out as 16:9 - no problem.

yours confusedly

Jeff Harper · September 27th, 2008, 12:32 PM

NOTE this is an edited post, I gave incomplete / incorrect directions before and have editied this post to correct same.

Go to Properties from the file dropdown menu and change your template to PAL widescreen, then render to .avi uncompressed and you're all set.

Glen Maw · September 27th, 2008, 11:56 PM

Thanks for your suggestion.... I'm shooting in PAL not NTSC, but I tried your suggestion anyway with no luck. I am starting to wonder if uncompressed files don't natively render to widescreen at all. Believe me, I have ticked all the boxes (at least 50 variations with different codecs). The only way I seem to be able to get it out widescreen is either Up-rezzing to HD or rendering as a standard dv widescreen avi file ( which is lossy as far as I know)

Glen

Jeff Harper · September 28th, 2008, 05:19 AM

Actually, what you need to do is go to Properties from the file dropdown menu and change your template to PAL widescreen, then render to .avi uncompressed and you're all set.

Glen Maw · September 28th, 2008, 02:16 PM

Thanks Jeff,
That's the logical solution. The problem is I've already tried that to no avail. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact I'm testing on a trial version? I don't think this is the case because every other rendering situation I've put it through seems fine, also I have a similar issue in Vegas 7, which is not a trial version.

Jeff Harper · September 28th, 2008, 02:19 PM

Sorry I couldn't help. All I can tell you is I tried it for you and it worked fine on my PC . I can't guess what your particular issue is...good luck, maybe someone else will have an idea...

Glen Maw · September 28th, 2008, 08:52 PM

Thanks Jeff... If there's anyone else out there who has overcome a similar issue, I'd love to hear from them.

Jeff Harper · September 29th, 2008, 02:27 AM

You know, it might be the demo thing you mentioned...anyone else have any ideas?

Mike Gunter · September 29th, 2008, 07:06 AM

Hi Glen,

You might try downloading Huffyuv. It's an uncompressed CODEC that you can export your project to as an uncompressed iin a widescreen avi wraper.

The install instructions are at the URL page and you just follow the Vegas "render as" guide on export, making sure the PAL PAR (pixel aspect ratio) is set.

Good luck,

Mike

Mark Sudfeldt · October 1st, 2008, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Maw

Thanks Jeff... If there's anyone else out there who has overcome a similar issue, I'd love to hear from them.

Can't offer any advice Glen because I am having the same issues with Vegas 7.
Trying to render a DV pal widescreen to a mov widescreen seems to be impossible as I have tried
just about every combination possible and I either end up with a squeezed mov or a letter boxed mov. Love to find a solution but it looks like it may have to be on some other software. . . anyone got any ideas?

Mark

September 26th, 2008, 01:26 AM	#1
Glen Maw Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland Posts: 45	Rendering lossless avi and mov files in 16:9 Hi, I'm working on a PAL DV Widescreen project, which I'm handing over to an animator who wants it delivered in the highest possible quality. He has suggested the quicktime animation codec. I am using vegas 7 and my renders in mov always look steppy. When I select PAL DV widescreen and select the aspect ratio 1.457, I get a widescreen project but it looks awful. I thought it must be a problem with Vegas 7, because I always have difficulties rendering mov files. I downloaded a trial version of vegas 8 and rendered with the same properties, and the video is a high quality - I can't see any loss of detail - but it only seems to render in 4:3 not 16:9. I am also trying to render an uncompressed AVI as another option for him. I have the same issue with not being able to render to widescreen. i.e. it comes out squeezed. I have dropped both of these files into a new vegas timeline and changed the clip properties from PAL standard aspect ratio to PAL widescreen and they change to widescreen. Should I tell the animator to do the same (I think he is working in after effects), or is there a way of rendering out lossless files which are widescreen?

September 26th, 2008, 04:57 AM	#2
Paul Fierlinger Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Wynnewood, Pennsylvania Posts: 355	I render out my animations from Vegas in wide screen AVI all the time. I use the MainConcept MPEG-2 m2t template in the "Render As" panel, making sure I have the Aspect Ratio set to 16:9 Display under the Video Tab; Output type HDV, and make also sure your field order is Progressive, since it's for animation. __________________ Paul

September 26th, 2008, 06:05 AM	#4
Paul Fierlinger Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Wynnewood, Pennsylvania Posts: 355	I understand, but if your animator needs widescreen to animate upon, why can't you supply him with an HDV 16:9 format? __________________ Paul

September 27th, 2008, 12:32 PM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	NOTE this is an edited post, I gave incomplete / incorrect directions before and have editied this post to correct same. Go to Properties from the file dropdown menu and change your template to PAL widescreen, then render to .avi uncompressed and you're all set. Last edited by Jeff Harper; September 28th, 2008 at 10:36 AM.

September 29th, 2008, 07:06 AM	#14
Mike Gunter Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kalispell, Montana Posts: 164	Hi Glen, You might try downloading Huffyuv. It's an uncompressed CODEC that you can export your project to as an uncompressed iin a widescreen avi wraper. The install instructions are at the URL page and you just follow the Vegas "render as" guide on export, making sure the PAL PAR (pixel aspect ratio) is set. Good luck, Mike __________________ Mike Gunter VideoTidbits.com

September 26th, 2008, 05:48 AM	#3
Glen Maw Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland Posts: 45	Thanks Paul But I'm not editing animations myself. It's DV widescreen (not HDV) which an animator is going to composite over. M2T is an HDV file. I'm pretty sure that it's not lossless either. Thanks for your suggestion though. Glen

September 26th, 2008, 07:22 AM	#5
Ben Longden Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Echuca, Victoria, Australiamate Posts: 179	If he really needs lossless, then its going to be a big file. Ask him if they can accept it rendered as a plain old ordinary .avi file? Then all you have to do is ensure its 25fps, PAL and 16:9 That surely would save a lot of messing around, as he can then do what he needs and render as required. Otherwise, get him to be very specific about the format and the bitrate. (eg; MPEG2, Audio and Video at 25Mbps in 16;9) Ben

September 26th, 2008, 07:02 PM	#6
Glen Maw Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland Posts: 45	I think he's ok with a big file. I gave him a PAL DV widescreen AVI render and he said he wanted it in a higher quality. The clip is a 3 minute music video: 670MB for the AVI widescreen render -which will be higher quality than an Mp2 due to the heavy compression of mpeg files -the AVI uncompressed is about 7GB. He's working on studio quality gear, so I don't think the size is an issue as much as the quality. He is going to animate over the top of the video - cheesy glowing eyes, sparkling teeth etc. The main thing I want to know is: Is it possible to render lossless avi or mov files which remain in the project's 16:9? (I always make sure my custom render properties are set to widescreen, but I always end up with 4:3) When I render dv widescreen avi or mp2 or other lossy files they come out as 16:9 - no problem. yours confusedly

September 27th, 2008, 11:56 PM	#8
Glen Maw Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland Posts: 45	Thanks for your suggestion.... I'm shooting in PAL not NTSC, but I tried your suggestion anyway with no luck. I am starting to wonder if uncompressed files don't natively render to widescreen at all. Believe me, I have ticked all the boxes (at least 50 variations with different codecs). The only way I seem to be able to get it out widescreen is either Up-rezzing to HD or rendering as a standard dv widescreen avi file ( which is lossy as far as I know) Glen

September 28th, 2008, 05:19 AM	#9
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Actually, what you need to do is go to Properties from the file dropdown menu and change your template to PAL widescreen, then render to .avi uncompressed and you're all set.

September 28th, 2008, 02:16 PM	#10
Glen Maw Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland Posts: 45	Thanks Jeff, That's the logical solution. The problem is I've already tried that to no avail. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact I'm testing on a trial version? I don't think this is the case because every other rendering situation I've put it through seems fine, also I have a similar issue in Vegas 7, which is not a trial version.

September 28th, 2008, 02:19 PM	#11
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Sorry I couldn't help. All I can tell you is I tried it for you and it worked fine on my PC . I can't guess what your particular issue is...good luck, maybe someone else will have an idea...

September 28th, 2008, 08:52 PM	#12
Glen Maw Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland Posts: 45	Thanks Jeff... If there's anyone else out there who has overcome a similar issue, I'd love to hear from them.

September 29th, 2008, 02:27 AM	#13
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	You know, it might be the demo thing you mentioned...anyone else have any ideas?