Arch DVD - should audio be rendered separate? at DVinfo.net

David Delaney · July 28th, 2008, 02:07 PM

I am now rendering out my project to DVD, NTSC video stream. I noticed the check box for AUDIO is NOT checked in the customizable options - is this purposeful? Should I render the audio separate for DVDs? I am guessing separate audio will lead to higher quality?

Edward Troxel · July 28th, 2008, 02:34 PM

Yes, that is on purpose. It is assumed you will render the audio out separately as AC3 format. Then you give both files to DVD Architect for creating the DVD. I spell out the entire process in a couple issues of my newsletters (Vol 1 #7 and Vol 4 #1 are two good issues to look at)

If you include audio in the MPEG2 file, it will be compressed to MPEG format. When you author the DVD, the audio will then be decompressed and then REcompressed into AC3. To maintain the highest possible quality, go straight to AC3 from the timeline and avoid the recompression.

Don Bloom · July 28th, 2008, 02:35 PM

if you are rendering in Vegas then render the audio to AC3-it's a smaller file which will aloow a higher bitrate for the video. NAme them the same (IE my clip.MPG and my clip.AC3)and when you bring them into DVDA they will come in together.

Don

opps,posted same time Edward was also. Damn he's quick ;-)

David Delaney · July 28th, 2008, 03:00 PM

Is it the "AC3 Dolby Digital Pro" or just the "AC3 Dolby Digital Studio"

Edward Troxel · July 28th, 2008, 03:18 PM

Either will work. The "studio" version is basically the "lite" version. The "Pro" version lets you adjust more parameters. For a simple render, you can use the studio version. If you want full control of all parameters, use the pro version.

David Delaney · July 28th, 2008, 03:40 PM

Weird - I did render out the audio separately as an AC3 and burned the DVD...when I played it the background music was all but inaudible! Everything else seemed fine, just that. I am going to do it the other way and include the audio stream and see what happens.

This is getting strange by the minute. There is a section with a music background and some sound effects. What happens when I render it out to AC3, the background music dips in volume when the sound effects come in and slowly and gradually builds back up to the regular volume. I can't explain it. Everything is fine using a scrub preview in Vegas!

Before I forget, thank you for the help!

Don Bloom · July 28th, 2008, 05:04 PM

OK when rendering to AC3 you need to make a couple of changes.
First when you open the preset menu up go to the CUSTOM button then goto the AUDIO SERVICES tab-go to Dialouge Normalization and set the rate to -31 (that's minus 31) then goto the PreProcessing set the Line Mode and RF Mode to NONE andsave it as a preset.
That should take care of it for you.

Don

David Delaney · July 28th, 2008, 05:26 PM

Ok, thanks - it does sound better, but I am still getting the AUTO gain or something at part of the video. Maybe there is nothing I can do about it. Hopefully it won't be too noticeable.

Don Bloom · July 28th, 2008, 09:08 PM

then it's something you did in editing. Go back to the Vegas project and double check the audio track headers, busses and envelopes you used. I've been using this system for a number of years and have never had the audio change levels without it first being done in Vegas. DVDA won't automatically change the audio levels.

Don

David Delaney · July 29th, 2008, 08:47 AM

Yes Don, I know. I am a little flabbergasted at it as well. No, none of the tracks have any effects. When I play it in Vegas NLE, it is fine. When I render it as a AC3, that is when the problem starts...

Don Bloom · July 29th, 2008, 10:55 AM

Hmm, OK well then tell me this. Which version of DVDA are you using?
Have you rerendered the entire project? (a PITA I know but sometimes it's the only thing to do)
Just for the sake of checking, check the MAIN AUDIO BUS. Open the project and press B. That'll bring another track looking bus to the bottom of the page. Check to see if there is an envelope in there with 4 point editing. It almost sounds like there might be. For the music bed to die out and the SFX to be there like that, something tells me there's an envelope lurking somewhere.

Don

David Delaney · July 29th, 2008, 06:52 PM

Don,

The Bus had a Soft-limiter on it. Remember when I needed help with the CLIPPING? I guess I forgot about it there, do you think that is the culprit??
I am using DVD arch 3.

David Delaney · July 29th, 2008, 07:21 PM

No, that didn't fix it. I am trying to get rid of the Audio bus altogether and see - how do I do that? The sound is better in other areas, but it does RAISE quite a bit in one particular area. It makes no sense. The track doesn't have any effects on it and the audio level is well, level...

Don Bloom · July 29th, 2008, 08:41 PM

nope a 3 db limiter will only help to keep things in check. I would check for a hidden envelope by doing a B to bring out the master track. (or VIEW>Audio MAster)
It just sounds like there is an envelope there with points on it messing you up. Either that or some gremlins have hit but DVDA 3 had the gremlin repeller in it ;-).
Just anFYI I use version 3 and the only way that can happen is there HAS to be an envelope lying about.

Don

David Delaney · July 29th, 2008, 10:41 PM

Ok, I thought I found the answer and it seems that rendering it out to AC3 is the culprit. I don't understand why, but the audio difficulty seems to have gone away and I am using the Audio from the mpeg for the DVD.

I forgot to mention that this is in High Def, but I don't see a way of making the project high def in Arch 3, is it possible to make a HD DVD with arch 3?

July 28th, 2008, 02:34 PM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Yes, that is on purpose. It is assumed you will render the audio out separately as AC3 format. Then you give both files to DVD Architect for creating the DVD. I spell out the entire process in a couple issues of my newsletters (Vol 1 #7 and Vol 4 #1 are two good issues to look at) If you include audio in the MPEG2 file, it will be compressed to MPEG format. When you author the DVD, the audio will then be decompressed and then REcompressed into AC3. To maintain the highest possible quality, go straight to AC3 from the timeline and avoid the recompression. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

July 28th, 2008, 03:18 PM	#5
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Either will work. The "studio" version is basically the "lite" version. The "Pro" version lets you adjust more parameters. For a simple render, you can use the studio version. If you want full control of all parameters, use the pro version. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

July 28th, 2008, 03:40 PM	#6
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Weird - I did render out the audio separately as an AC3 and burned the DVD...when I played it the background music was all but inaudible! Everything else seemed fine, just that. I am going to do it the other way and include the audio stream and see what happens. This is getting strange by the minute. There is a section with a music background and some sound effects. What happens when I render it out to AC3, the background music dips in volume when the sound effects come in and slowly and gradually builds back up to the regular volume. I can't explain it. Everything is fine using a scrub preview in Vegas! Before I forget, thank you for the help! Last edited by David Delaney; July 28th, 2008 at 04:30 PM.

July 28th, 2008, 02:07 PM	#1
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Arch DVD - should audio be rendered separate? I am now rendering out my project to DVD, NTSC video stream. I noticed the check box for AUDIO is NOT checked in the customizable options - is this purposeful? Should I render the audio separate for DVDs? I am guessing separate audio will lead to higher quality?

July 28th, 2008, 02:35 PM	#3
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	if you are rendering in Vegas then render the audio to AC3-it's a smaller file which will aloow a higher bitrate for the video. NAme them the same (IE my clip.MPG and my clip.AC3)and when you bring them into DVDA they will come in together. Don opps,posted same time Edward was also. Damn he's quick ;-)

July 28th, 2008, 03:00 PM	#4
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Is it the "AC3 Dolby Digital Pro" or just the "AC3 Dolby Digital Studio"

July 28th, 2008, 05:04 PM	#7
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	OK when rendering to AC3 you need to make a couple of changes. First when you open the preset menu up go to the CUSTOM button then goto the AUDIO SERVICES tab-go to Dialouge Normalization and set the rate to -31 (that's minus 31) then goto the PreProcessing set the Line Mode and RF Mode to NONE andsave it as a preset. That should take care of it for you. Don

July 28th, 2008, 05:26 PM	#8
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Ok, thanks - it does sound better, but I am still getting the AUTO gain or something at part of the video. Maybe there is nothing I can do about it. Hopefully it won't be too noticeable.

July 28th, 2008, 09:08 PM	#9
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	then it's something you did in editing. Go back to the Vegas project and double check the audio track headers, busses and envelopes you used. I've been using this system for a number of years and have never had the audio change levels without it first being done in Vegas. DVDA won't automatically change the audio levels. Don

July 29th, 2008, 08:47 AM	#10
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Yes Don, I know. I am a little flabbergasted at it as well. No, none of the tracks have any effects. When I play it in Vegas NLE, it is fine. When I render it as a AC3, that is when the problem starts...

July 29th, 2008, 10:55 AM	#11
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Hmm, OK well then tell me this. Which version of DVDA are you using? Have you rerendered the entire project? (a PITA I know but sometimes it's the only thing to do) Just for the sake of checking, check the MAIN AUDIO BUS. Open the project and press B. That'll bring another track looking bus to the bottom of the page. Check to see if there is an envelope in there with 4 point editing. It almost sounds like there might be. For the music bed to die out and the SFX to be there like that, something tells me there's an envelope lurking somewhere. Don

July 29th, 2008, 06:52 PM	#12
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Don, The Bus had a Soft-limiter on it. Remember when I needed help with the CLIPPING? I guess I forgot about it there, do you think that is the culprit?? I am using DVD arch 3.

July 29th, 2008, 07:21 PM	#13
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	No, that didn't fix it. I am trying to get rid of the Audio bus altogether and see - how do I do that? The sound is better in other areas, but it does RAISE quite a bit in one particular area. It makes no sense. The track doesn't have any effects on it and the audio level is well, level...

July 29th, 2008, 08:41 PM	#14
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	nope a 3 db limiter will only help to keep things in check. I would check for a hidden envelope by doing a B to bring out the master track. (or VIEW>Audio MAster) It just sounds like there is an envelope there with points on it messing you up. Either that or some gremlins have hit but DVDA 3 had the gremlin repeller in it ;-). Just anFYI I use version 3 and the only way that can happen is there HAS to be an envelope lying about. Don

July 29th, 2008, 10:41 PM	#15
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Ok, I thought I found the answer and it seems that rendering it out to AC3 is the culprit. I don't understand why, but the audio difficulty seems to have gone away and I am using the Audio from the mpeg for the DVD. I forgot to mention that this is in High Def, but I don't see a way of making the project high def in Arch 3, is it possible to make a HD DVD with arch 3?