External monitor via IEEE.....

Edward Troxel · August 27th, 2003, 07:07 AM

DMA is a hard drive setting and not related to your video. You have to go to the hardware settings for your hard drive controller and it will indicate whether DMA is active.

However, you may have given another clue: 24p. It is possible that this is requiring more recompression than straight DV-AVI. I'm not sure as I've never worked with 24p at this point.

Jake McMurray · August 27th, 2003, 05:27 PM

ok, well I will try it with some 60i footage I have and see if that makes a difference. I'll try to see if DMA is active. Is this usually a thing that is on by default?

Edward Troxel · August 27th, 2003, 08:18 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jake McMurray : I'll try to see if DMA is active. Is this usually a thing that is on by default? -->>>

Maybe. No guarantees.

Adrian Douglas · August 27th, 2003, 10:18 PM

Unless you are using Win9x DMA is active by default. The reason that your footage is jerky on your TV and not your computer monitor is probably the fact that it's progressive. TVs require interlaced foortage to display smoothly where as a computer monitor is progressive scan.

Jake McMurray · August 28th, 2003, 01:38 AM

but I think with the dvx100 and vegas it is shot in 24p, then it goes to interlace for editing and then back to 24p when rendered. My preview window thing says that is 29 fps.

Adrian Douglas · August 28th, 2003, 09:00 AM

is there a "p" after it? If so then it's progressive.

Glen Elliott · August 28th, 2003, 10:47 AM

Jake, actually I thought it was quite the opposite. Shooting in the DVX's 24pA mode applies the advanced pulldown. When it's brought into Vegas and edited under the 24p template Vegas removes the extra pull-down frames while editing. During final encoding it re-inserts standard pulldown but adds flags for DVD players to idetify and remove them to display the footage in true 24p.

I have a DVX100 and have yet to edit any 24p footage on it- I know what your thinking "why'd you even get the dvx and not the dvc80?!". It's just that I've been doing wedding videography along side with my friends XL-1s and for continuity purposes I only shoot in 60i.
I'll let you guys know if I encounter the same phenomenon previewing 24p footage out to an external monitor as soon as I get a chance to do so.

Adrian, unfortuatly my budget doesn't allow me to pick up a good NTSC monitor. Ironlicly enough I had the funds to splurge on two 17" LCD monitors though! But, yeah...I'm using a standard television to do my color corrections. I figure it's no where near as accurate as a properly calibrated NTSC monitor but it's much better than judging by my computer monitor. Jeez if I hadn't taken the time to check my output on my last project I would have been in a world of trouble. It looked great on my computer monitor but terrible on my TV when previewing it. I made my adjustments and now it looks washed out on the monitor and great on the TV. Glad I took the time to check!
What determines the display characteristics of the preview window from within Vegas? Is it like Premiere where your video overlay is the defining factor in the way the display looks? If so maybe I can tweak my overlay settings to at least "better" match it's output characteristics on the television. I mean it's like night and day the way the two look!

Glenn Chan · August 28th, 2003, 05:32 PM

24fps footage won't normally play on a television set. You have to apply 3:2 pulldown (looks ok on a TV) or duplicate every 5th frame (looks bad on a TV). The Panasonic records 24fps onto a 30fps format using either of those methods as far as I know.

Glen Elliott · August 28th, 2003, 07:04 PM

Precisely, 24p mode is 3:2 and 24pA (advanced) mode is 3:2:2:3

Jake McMurray · August 28th, 2003, 10:46 PM

well we have a nice discussion going on here but I've essentially solved the problem. there was something called record delay in the setup of the Video Device (external monitor/dv camera) I had it set at 4 and then I put it down to 0. My 24p plays back as smoothly as it does in the preview window. It only chops up where its heavy on effects. What do you guys use for an external monitor. Is it normal that my colors are SO off when I look at what I've done on the computer as opposed to a tv.

The footage does look kind of crappy...like low res. I have it set on best/full. Is this as good as my footage gets? I'll have to light better next time.

Adrian Douglas · August 28th, 2003, 11:26 PM

Jake, a TV has only about 200-300 lines res so it will always look much different to your much higher res computer monitor. It all depends on your target output, if it's going back to tape for watching on TV then do your colours on the TV, if it's going to the web then do it on your monitor. Sometimes you'll have to do two versions if it's going to both, one interlaced for tv and the other deinterlased for computer monitors.

Jake McMurray · August 29th, 2003, 01:23 AM

I got ya, why do people buy external monitors w/450 lines of resolution? I want to buy a dedicated monitor for this somewhere between 13-19". I can't decide on whether to get a production monitor, or just go with a regular tv. What would you do given a $300 or so budget?

Ron Carlo · September 23rd, 2003, 08:27 PM

While we're on the subject, what do y'all use to convert from 1394 to video? Internal card? External box? Brand?

Thanks for all the good info on this site!
R

Edward Troxel · September 24th, 2003, 07:34 AM

I use my Panasonic AG-DV2000 deck to convert. Others use devices such as the Canopus ADVC-100. Still others use their cameras (I've used my XL-1 in the past for this).

Glenn Chan · September 25th, 2003, 02:12 PM

Correction about the DVX: advanced pulldown is 3:2:2:3 while the other 24p mode is 3:2:3:2. If you followed my message then you could have thought advanced was 2:2:2:4.

Quote:

I got ya, why do people buy external monitors w/450 lines of resolution? I want to buy a dedicated monitor for this somewhere between 13-19". I can't decide on whether to get a production monitor, or just go with a regular tv. What would you do given a $300 or so budget?

What you want to look for in a production monitor is the ability to reproduce colors faithfully. Normal TV sets and computers monitors will display colors differently from each other. A production monitor can be calibrated to a standard reference so that your picture will look as good as it can get on a wide array of TV sets of varying colors.

$300 isn't going to buy you a very good production monitor so just stick with any TV set in your house. You can try calibrating it with NTSC bars and tones (Vegas should be able to generate it). There are various instructions for this around on the net. If you know the deficiencies of your TV set (i.e. which colors are over or underemphasized) then you could get away with doing basic color correction on it.

A TV set is VERY useful to check your final product. You will spot interlace flicker and important parts of your shot that are cut out because of underscan.

August 27th, 2003, 10:18 PM	#19
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Unless you are using Win9x DMA is active by default. The reason that your footage is jerky on your TV and not your computer monitor is probably the fact that it's progressive. TVs require interlaced foortage to display smoothly where as a computer monitor is progressive scan. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

August 28th, 2003, 09:00 AM	#21
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	is there a "p" after it? If so then it's progressive. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

August 28th, 2003, 11:26 PM	#26
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Jake, a TV has only about 200-300 lines res so it will always look much different to your much higher res computer monitor. It all depends on your target output, if it's going back to tape for watching on TV then do your colours on the TV, if it's going to the web then do it on your monitor. Sometimes you'll have to do two versions if it's going to both, one interlaced for tv and the other deinterlased for computer monitors. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

August 27th, 2003, 07:07 AM	#16
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	DMA is a hard drive setting and not related to your video. You have to go to the hardware settings for your hard drive controller and it will indicate whether DMA is active. However, you may have given another clue: 24p. It is possible that this is requiring more recompression than straight DV-AVI. I'm not sure as I've never worked with 24p at this point.

August 27th, 2003, 05:27 PM	#17
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	ok, well I will try it with some 60i footage I have and see if that makes a difference. I'll try to see if DMA is active. Is this usually a thing that is on by default?

August 27th, 2003, 08:18 PM	#18
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	<<<-- Originally posted by Jake McMurray : I'll try to see if DMA is active. Is this usually a thing that is on by default? -->>> Maybe. No guarantees.

August 28th, 2003, 01:38 AM	#20
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	but I think with the dvx100 and vegas it is shot in 24p, then it goes to interlace for editing and then back to 24p when rendered. My preview window thing says that is 29 fps.

August 28th, 2003, 10:47 AM	#22
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Jake, actually I thought it was quite the opposite. Shooting in the DVX's 24pA mode applies the advanced pulldown. When it's brought into Vegas and edited under the 24p template Vegas removes the extra pull-down frames while editing. During final encoding it re-inserts standard pulldown but adds flags for DVD players to idetify and remove them to display the footage in true 24p. I have a DVX100 and have yet to edit any 24p footage on it- I know what your thinking "why'd you even get the dvx and not the dvc80?!". It's just that I've been doing wedding videography along side with my friends XL-1s and for continuity purposes I only shoot in 60i. I'll let you guys know if I encounter the same phenomenon previewing 24p footage out to an external monitor as soon as I get a chance to do so. Adrian, unfortuatly my budget doesn't allow me to pick up a good NTSC monitor. Ironlicly enough I had the funds to splurge on two 17" LCD monitors though! But, yeah...I'm using a standard television to do my color corrections. I figure it's no where near as accurate as a properly calibrated NTSC monitor but it's much better than judging by my computer monitor. Jeez if I hadn't taken the time to check my output on my last project I would have been in a world of trouble. It looked great on my computer monitor but terrible on my TV when previewing it. I made my adjustments and now it looks washed out on the monitor and great on the TV. Glad I took the time to check! What determines the display characteristics of the preview window from within Vegas? Is it like Premiere where your video overlay is the defining factor in the way the display looks? If so maybe I can tweak my overlay settings to at least "better" match it's output characteristics on the television. I mean it's like night and day the way the two look!

August 28th, 2003, 05:32 PM	#23
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	24fps footage won't normally play on a television set. You have to apply 3:2 pulldown (looks ok on a TV) or duplicate every 5th frame (looks bad on a TV). The Panasonic records 24fps onto a 30fps format using either of those methods as far as I know.

August 28th, 2003, 07:04 PM	#24
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Precisely, 24p mode is 3:2 and 24pA (advanced) mode is 3:2:2:3

August 28th, 2003, 10:46 PM	#25
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	well we have a nice discussion going on here but I've essentially solved the problem. there was something called record delay in the setup of the Video Device (external monitor/dv camera) I had it set at 4 and then I put it down to 0. My 24p plays back as smoothly as it does in the preview window. It only chops up where its heavy on effects. What do you guys use for an external monitor. Is it normal that my colors are SO off when I look at what I've done on the computer as opposed to a tv. The footage does look kind of crappy...like low res. I have it set on best/full. Is this as good as my footage gets? I'll have to light better next time.

August 29th, 2003, 01:23 AM	#27
Jake McMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bellingham Washington Posts: 102	I got ya, why do people buy external monitors w/450 lines of resolution? I want to buy a dedicated monitor for this somewhere between 13-19". I can't decide on whether to get a production monitor, or just go with a regular tv. What would you do given a $300 or so budget?

September 23rd, 2003, 08:27 PM	#28
Ron Carlo Tourist Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 1	While we're on the subject, what do y'all use to convert from 1394 to video? Internal card? External box? Brand? Thanks for all the good info on this site! R

September 24th, 2003, 07:34 AM	#29
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I use my Panasonic AG-DV2000 deck to convert. Others use devices such as the Canopus ADVC-100. Still others use their cameras (I've used my XL-1 in the past for this).