Do I give up up on Vegas or change Motherboard

[Ron Cooper]

I have a PC specially built for video editing and some time ago I had a lot of instability problems using Vegas Vers. 8. (Vers. 7 was OK) A lot of the problems seemed to point to the Windows .net framework that Vegas relies on.

I have virtually given up on it as the frustration is just not worth it. Further, I am down-converting to SD in the camera (Sony A1P), and only editing in SD. at this stage !

When I commented to the local agent about other programs working OK on my system he just scoffed that Vegas was more advanced by using .net framework and the others were not in the race. (Adobe Prem. Pro., Avid Liquid etc. )

After 3, yes 3, complete re-formats and re-loading XP and all the updates etc. I am still having problems and now it crashes quite often to a BSOD with the following message : -

"A problem has been detected & Windows has been shut down to prevent damage to your computer.

DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

If this is the first time you have seen this stop error screen re-start your computer. If the screen appears again follow these steps :

Check to make sure that any new hardware or software is properly installed. If this is a new installation ask your hardware or software manufacturer for any windows up dates you might need.

Technical Information.
Stop: Ox OOOOOOD1 (OxOOO4OO1C,OxOOOOOOO2, OxOOOOOOO1, OxB1O221A2)
I have only loaded the bare essentals and Vegas (and their updates), yet stil I am having problems. I have also checked the memory by substitution and it made no difference.

System details-Intel core 2 duo 2.5 g.
Asus P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe Mbd.
2g DDR2 Corsair RAM(4g available)
250 G Samsung C Drive (For programs etc)
Various removable drives for video & audio files.

I am beginning to think it is a hardware fault such as the Mbd.
From reading some other threads it seems there is a gigabyte board that works well with Vegas.

Your comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ron Cooper.

[Ron Cooper]

I forgot to mention in my prvious post that I have also changed the Video card to a Ge Force 8800GT Alpha Dog Edition.
Ron C.

[Jeff Harper]

I don't believe it's Vegas, but what do I know. I know it's common to install program files on different drive, but I don't like it. And Ron, no offense to your present computer, but you can buy a Quad-Core system ready built for less $700. Buy a new MOBO, but then what if the graphics card doesn't work properly with it and you need to change that out? Of if the new MOBO is defective, you have to disassemble it after spending days figuring out the problem, then send the MOBO off, then wait, reassemble only to find out something else. If you are a hobbyist and have time to play around, fine. If you are a professional, why would you even bother? You cannot buy parts for workstations as cheaply as HP, Dell, etc and cannot build as high a quality system for the same money. Someone tried to convince me of this at one point and it still took me almost two years to wake up and smell the coffee.

Virtually all of the worst complaints about the stability of Vegas come from hobbyist's who also build their own computer.

We see this almost daily here. I recognize Vegas' shortcomings as much as anyone, and it has hiccuped here and there for me, I didn't care for the titling program either. But my God, stable? Vegas is terribly stable. Lack of plug-in support? I hate that about Vegas, etc. etc. but it runs fantastic, for the most part.

I recommend an OEM system because you will have a PC that is designed with compatability in mind from the ground up.

This is exactly why I stopped building my own. You can build your own, and if you match up components correctly great. But having to find out through trial and error is no fun. I got tired of it, and I truly don't have time for it.

Good luck!

[John Miller]

DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL is the single most common BSOD error. Basically, a driver is trying access a part of the memory when it isn't allowed. Windows detects this and stops everything as a safeguard against the errant driver.

Being a driver problem, it is most likely a driver for a piece of hardware beyond that of the motherboard - i.e., graphics card, keyboard, mouse, any USB device, FireWire, ethernet, wireless etc etc.

Verify you have the most up-to-date drivers for all your hardware, including the motherboard.

Remove all removable hardware (external drives, dongles etc) and disable as much hardware in Device Manager as possible so that you have just the bare essentials to use the computer. i.e., disable USB controllers (unless you have USB keyboard/mouse), FireWire interfaces, DVD drives etc.

Peform the tasks you typically do that create the BSOD. BTW, does it only happen with Vegas? And only when performing heavy processing?

If no BSOD occurs, re-enable just one hardware device and repeat. Hopefully, you will find that one hardware driver causes the BSOD to occur again.

[Michael Wisniewski]

Well I agree with Jeff a pre-built tested stable computer is worth the extra $$$.

On the other hand, I've built all my own editing computers and they run Vegas rock solid. As has been pointed out in other threads, Intel chip + Intel motherboard is a good bet. I've got 3 computers running Vegas 8b + NEO HDV, using an Asus, Gigabyte, and Intel motherboard and have yet to experience any sort of Vegas instability. This is after 30+ long form docs, commercials, weddings, shorts, & music videos.

One thing I will say, as a former systems tech, I'd never use the Asus SLI "Deluxe". I shy away from all-in-one motherboards like that like their the plague. Who knows which "extra" is causing the problem, and because it's all built-in - it's so painful to troubleshoot. All my systems always have the best rated BUT most basic motherboards. Additional peripherals are always added in after the fact. If any new equipment makes the system unstable, it's much easier to troubleshoot. Using this method I have yet to have any instability problems with Vegas.

[Jeff Harper]

John, put up against my rant against DIY machines, your post is much more practical in terms of helping Ron in his current situation. Your step-by-step directions in isolating the problem are excellent. Ron, your current machine is obviously more than adequate for Vegas, and I hope you can track down the problem without resorting to replacing hardware. On the other hand, before you build your own again price the components and then price an identical system ready made...I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Ron Cooper]

Thanks very much guys. In view of what John said, I feel armed to tackle the problem now with better understanding and will try up-dating the few drivers I have. Interesting comment Michael, re Asus SLI boards but I don't use the onboard graphics. Also, because of the BSOD I havn't done any heavy processing so far. In fact it often occurs when I am editing just sound, in Vegas, and often when I go to turn the machine off !

I am not running anything other than Vegas & Sound Forge apart from the necessary apps. to connect to the net and even then it is only for downloading drivers etc. as I don't surf or email with the editing-only machine.

I am in Sydney Australia and ready made Quad cores don't come that cheap here but I do agree that there are some well priced machines around. However, at this stage I would prefer to trouble-shoot as this is only a hobby with me. Funny though, I did not have much trouble running V7 on this machine.

Ron.

[Edward Troxel]

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

I know it's common to install program files on different drive, but I don't like it.

I disagree with this. It's VERY common to install on the C Drive inside "Program Files" just like all your other programs. In fact, it's preferred (and recommended that you install in the "default" location).

Once installed, though, you should go through and change all files locations (in File - Properties and Options Preferences) to point to other drives instead of the C drive. You don't really want to use C as a media drive if it can be avoided.

[Ron Cooper]

I agree wholehartedly Edward. I have always done this and with my last two computers I have fitted a removeable drive bay so I can have my video files on separate drives in their own caddy which I swap around if I am working on different projects. It also allows a great measure of relief when the OS fails and you have to re-format the "C" drive !

Ron C.

[John Miller]

Originally Posted by Ron Cooper

Also, because of the BSOD I havn't done any heavy processing so far. In fact it often occurs when I am editing just sound, in Vegas, and often when I go to turn the machine off !

This latter part about turning off the machine might be a useful pointer. When I was looking up DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL on Google for ideas, a number of hits to Microsoft's support pages refered to such BSODs occurring at shutdown. This may mean that it has to do with a driver putting a piece of hardware to sleep (technically, a different power state). So, one other possible thing to test is to disable all your power saving options - a long shot but easy to do.

BTW, if your detective work fails to reveal anything then there is a way to find out exactly what driver(s) is(are) causing the problem but it is a pain. Basically, you can connect your PC to another one via a serial port and when the BSOD occurs, the other PC can talk to the apparently dead PC and get a wealth of information about the state of the PC at the point of the BSOD. As I say, it's a pain in the rump to set up and perform but I can walk you through the process if all else fails.

[Jeff Harper]

Originally Posted by Edward Troxel

I disagree with this. It's VERY common to install on the C Drive inside "Program Files" just like all your other programs. In fact, it's preferred (and recommended that you install in the "default" location).

My bad Ron and Edward, I misread original post, I initially read Samsung 250 G to mean his G drive. He meant 250Gb. I was actually saying he shouldn't be using his G and that he SHOULD use his C drive for his program files.

Further over he did say C, missed it.

[Garrett Low]

Many times a BSOD is a result of driver conflicts or incorrect driver installations. One thing to make sure is to clear out all unused drivers. Video card and sound cards are notorious for leaving old or incorrect driver info on systems. One thing to try is to run DiverCleaner which specifically hunts out ATI, NVidia or soundcard driver elements and removes them from your system. Just doing an uninstall is not going to remove most driver info. You also have to clean up your registry to make sure everything is gone.

Another cause of BSOD's are incorrect reporting of system health issues. Mostly due to temperature readings from the MOBO. If you've got your BIOS set to warn or shut down on a certain temp you could try disabling this and seeing if the problem still occurs. If you do this make sure you pop cover and keep track of your temperatures to make sure you don't fry something in your machine. I put together a machine that had a couple of bad temp sensors and kept getting the BSOD. After disabling the temp monitoring it went away.

Jeff, for most people I would agree that buying a ready built machine is a better way to go. But if you do know what you're doing you can get a far superior machine by building it from the ground up. Even OEM machines have issues. One of the things to remember is that NLE is a very intensive operation for a computer. You're asking it to do a lot of very complex operations very quickly I have been building my machines for about 20 years now and couldn't imagine buying a prebuild box. I do have the advantage of having several friends in the hardware design industry (an advantage of living this close to silicon valley) and they have been a great resource regarding resolving hardware and software conflicts.

Finally remember that your computer requires maintenance. Windows especially is a living, growing animal that if unmaintained will become a huge beast. Just like a car, little regular maintenance will save you a lot headaches over the years.

[Andy Mace]

I'm not a big fan of ASUS motherboards but I'd first look into updating your video, audio and network drivers. Might sound crazy but I've fixed the 0x1d stop error with drivers before. Since this is a "SLI" capable motherboard, start with updating the video drivers first.

Microsoft has something to say about it with regards to power management and CPU types.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888399

If the problem persists, you might try disabling power management in control panel (if possible).

Also when you reloaded did you install the Intel INF update? That's a very important step that if overlooked can cause real problems later on down the line.

EDIT: Also tell what module is causing the stop error. There should be a file name listed in the error.

[Jeff Harper]

Hey Garrett, your are right, of course, that anyone can build a fine machine themselves, especially if they match components properly. But dollar for dollar, with matching specs, if the cost comes in the same or less for OEM, with a warranty, I don't see the need to spend my time or money building when I could be editing.

I offer anyone the friendly challenge to spec out a Dell or HP workstation class machine, add up the cost, and see how you come out to build yourself. This exercise is especially fun for the higher end machines with 8 cores.

And don't forget to factor in no additional charge on-site hardware replacement which comes with business class dells and probably HPs. Which in my case I have used twice and is amazing.

When I bought my current workstation, I couldn't build it for the same price as it cost to buy outright. If you simply like to build and have the time, it can be fun and exciting, but truthfully I don't miss it. I especially don't miss being up till 4am trying to figure out what is wrong with my DIY...I don't think I'll ever miss that.

For those that enjoy building their own, rock on and enjoy...

[Garrett Low]

Hey Jeff,

I hear you about late nights. I actually did just get done building my latest rig:

Intel Q9450
ABit IP35 Pro MOBO
4 gig crucial ram DDR2 4-4-4-12
2 oem 750 GB 32mb buffer drives (run in Raid 0)
1 retail 500 GB WD Drive (Program drive)
BFG 9800 GX2 Video Card
Creative Extreme Fatal1ty Sound Card
Corsair 750W PS
Lite-on SATA DVD R/W
Rocketfish Full tower server case (actualy made by Lian-Li for Best Buy, no longer available, it was a $300 case on close out for $79)

Total cost with Windows Vista Ultimate

$1550 (not including tax).

I already had two monitors and mouse and keyboard so I didnt' need those.

Looking at Dell's site (and I have purchased Dell laptops before so I do like them) a machine with similar specs is in the $3000 range and that's short about 500GB of HD and it uses integrated audio. Also, up until just recently Dell was still using some proprietary parts. The case also isn't quite as roomy as the one I got. I spent a day building, three days intense burn in and 2 weeks of fully loaded application testing. So far I haven't had any problems or crashes. Renders a 2.5 hour SD DVD compliant movie from a very heavily color corrected (all the clips had color correction, secondary color correction, levels, and color curves) in a little over 3.5 hours. That's over twice as fast as my friends Q6600 based HP that he paid $1500 for at Costco (that did come with a really nice 24" monitor though). I am cheating a little in that I have the 2.67Ghz Q9450 running at 3.2Ghz (and yes to my suprise it is stable, it was stable up to 3.4Ghz but I had to bump the voltage at that point and didn't want to do that for this machine).

So, if you look and buy as parts go on sale you can get a really good deal. You do have to be willing to wait and do a lot of searching for deals. You also have to be willing to send in all those rebate forms.

Now, if you factor in the cost of my time to build the machine and test it, you are certainly correct in that it would be cheaper to go buy a ready built rig. But I have to say I hate the way they lay the wires out in those things, such a mess (hey, I have to justify the bags under my eyes somehow). :)

forgot to mention that the original footage is all shot in HDV using Canon XH A1's and HV20's, 4 camera shoot with 4 channels of audio fed directly into a laptop.