When rendering and burning wav files in Vegas 8 Pro at DVinfo.net

Norris Combs · June 22nd, 2008, 06:13 PM

How can I tell before rendering how large the project will be after rendering? I just rendered ac3 to wav, and the file came to 1.19 gb, way too large to fit on a blank CD (700 mb). I then had to cut back some songs, rendered again, still over 700 mb, deleted couple more songs, rendered,.....

Thanks,

Jeff Harper · June 22nd, 2008, 06:17 PM

Why not render to MP3?

Norris Combs · June 22nd, 2008, 06:20 PM

I do that most of the time for my car. But my wife's car CD player cannot play mp3, so I need to make a wav cd for her.

Jeff Harper · June 22nd, 2008, 06:25 PM

Well Norris, I don't know of a way to know in advance of file size in advance of rendering.

I know if it were me I would just have to render at different settings untl I found the right setting.

You just need to adjust the audio properties and play with it until you find the right size, unless someone else steps in here with an idea.

good luck!

Mike Kujbida · June 22nd, 2008, 06:55 PM

Looking at my bitrate calculator, it says 74 min. for a 650 MB CD. and 80 min. for a 700 MB. CD.

John Cline · June 22nd, 2008, 08:47 PM

It usually says right on the CD packaging; "80 minutes" or "74 minutes." Since audio CDs only use 44.1k 16bit stereo audio at a fixed bitrate, the 74 or 80 minute number is always accurate.

DVDs sometimes say "120 minutes" which is marketing nonsense. How much you can fit on a DVD time-wise is entirely a function of bitrate. In that case of MPEG2 video encoding, bitrate can be set to by the user when encoding. It could be anything from, let's say, 74 minutes at 8Mbits/sec, to 9 hours (or more) at 1.864Mbits/sec (or less.)

Norris Combs · June 22nd, 2008, 10:00 PM

So if my ac3 file is 60 minutes long on the Vegas timeline, it should fit on the CD fine PROVIDED I burn in ac3. However, after rendering to wav, the size balloons out as expected. It's this surprise balloon size that I need to find out before rendering.

Thanks,

John Cline · June 22nd, 2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norris Combs

So if my ac3 file is 60 minutes long on the Vegas timeline, it should fit on the CD fine PROVIDED I burn in ac3. However, after rendering to wav, the size balloons out as expected. It's this surprise balloon size that I need to find out before rendering.

NO. 60 minutes is 60 minutes. Audio CDs have ONE format: 44.1k 16bit stereo. If your .AC3 file is 60 minutes on the Vegas timeline, it will EASILY fit on an 80 minute CD. Just render as .WAV format 44100 16bit stereo. Of course, you will have to author up an audio CD, you can't just copy a .WAV file to a CD and expect it to play in a CD player. You can make audio CDs from within Vegas. Refer to the manual.

Edward Troxel · June 23rd, 2008, 05:58 AM

Norris, if your audio is only 60 minutes long, you're fine. Just put it on the timeline, add CD markers as desired, and then go to Tools - Burn Disc, and pick the appropriate CD option. (I use Disc At Once Audio CD). That will automatically convert everything into the proper format for the CD and burn it.

Norris Combs · June 23rd, 2008, 09:50 AM

I rendered my ac3 file into 2 different files, wav and mp3. So now I have 2 files on the hard drive, let's call them Music.wav and Music.mp3. When I go to Tools-Burn Disc-Disc At Once, I don't see the option for me to select which of those 2 Music files I want burned.

Previously, I only rendered to wav. So I was able to burn Music.wav, since it was the only Music file on the hard drive. Vegas didn't have to choose. Now there's a Music.mp3 file.

Thanks!!!

Edward Troxel · June 23rd, 2008, 11:45 AM

To burn an audio CD:

1. Place your audio on the timeline
2. Use "N" to place CD markers as desired
3. Burn the disc

For a complete writeup, look at Vol 1 #10 of my newsletters

Norris Combs · June 23rd, 2008, 10:59 PM

I did a little "test". Got 2 different projects going, desired final result is a playable wav cd. In one project I rendered the ac3 audio on the timeline to wav, then burned. The other project I did not render, but went directly to burning. Both gave me the same wav cd. So what's the purpose of rendering?

Thanks,

Ian Stark · June 24th, 2008, 01:00 AM

Hi Norris.

I think you're getting a bit confused with formats here. You're trying to make a CD for your wife's car, yes? Then you don't want to make a wav CD or an MP3 CD - you are trying to make an AUDIO CD. I don't believe there is any need to render before burning - the CD burning process in Vegas in effect does the render to 44.1k/16bit stereo for you.

Edward's instructions are on the nose and I recommend you read the article in his newsletter which goes into further detail.

Ian . . .

Edward Troxel · June 24th, 2008, 06:19 AM

Norris, there's exactly zero difference between rendering to WAV, starting a new project, and going to CD vs going straight to CD from the original timeline. Either way, Vegas creates an audio CD. Going to WAV and starting a new project is really a waste of time and disk space.

Now, mp3 discs are a different story. In that case, they're actually data discs with mp3 files stored on them. You can get much more music on them because mp3's are much more compressed. However, only certain CD players can read them (i.e. your car but not your wife's). You would use some other program to burn them instead of Vegas. You might look at Nero to create an mp3 data disc.

This makes me think of a story from last weekend. I was sound-man at our church for a wedding held there. The groom gave me a CD of the music they wanted. Popped it in the player - nothing. Put it in the computer, Window's Media found 3 songs. Put it back in the CD player - nothing.

About this time the groom walks up and I explain what's happening. He says he's not sure why it wouldn't work as there's 3 mp3 files on the disc. Ahh.... it's not an AUDIO CD! He replied "Sure it is - it's a CD with audio files". Don't think he ever understood that it was not an "Audio CD" but, instead, a CD with audio files. Fortunately Vegas was on the computer so I just loaded the mp3 files on the timeline and burned an actual audio CD for the service.

Norris Combs · June 24th, 2008, 09:06 AM

Thanks, it's all clear now. For some odd reason, I kept thinking a commercial music CD is in wav format, that's why I wanted to render to wav first, then burn the wav file onto the CD. That's also why I wanted to calculate how much the file size will increase going from ac3 to wav. I even had to choose between 44k or 48k, 8 bit or 16 bit,.....Now burning directly on the timeline, having Vegas automatically select 44.1/16 is great, and the songs are in cda (is that PCM?)

Thanks,

June 23rd, 2008, 05:58 AM	#9
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Norris, if your audio is only 60 minutes long, you're fine. Just put it on the timeline, add CD markers as desired, and then go to Tools - Burn Disc, and pick the appropriate CD option. (I use Disc At Once Audio CD). That will automatically convert everything into the proper format for the CD and burn it. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

June 23rd, 2008, 11:45 AM	#11
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	To burn an audio CD: 1. Place your audio on the timeline 2. Use "N" to place CD markers as desired 3. Burn the disc For a complete writeup, look at Vol 1 #10 of my newsletters __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

June 24th, 2008, 01:00 AM	#13
Ian Stark Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,237	Hi Norris. I think you're getting a bit confused with formats here. You're trying to make a CD for your wife's car, yes? Then you don't want to make a wav CD or an MP3 CD - you are trying to make an AUDIO CD. I don't believe there is any need to render before burning - the CD burning process in Vegas in effect does the render to 44.1k/16bit stereo for you. Edward's instructions are on the nose and I recommend you read the article in his newsletter which goes into further detail. Ian . . . __________________ www.vit-media.com www.classicmachinefilms.co.uk

June 24th, 2008, 06:19 AM	#14
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Norris, there's exactly zero difference between rendering to WAV, starting a new project, and going to CD vs going straight to CD from the original timeline. Either way, Vegas creates an audio CD. Going to WAV and starting a new project is really a waste of time and disk space. Now, mp3 discs are a different story. In that case, they're actually data discs with mp3 files stored on them. You can get much more music on them because mp3's are much more compressed. However, only certain CD players can read them (i.e. your car but not your wife's). You would use some other program to burn them instead of Vegas. You might look at Nero to create an mp3 data disc. This makes me think of a story from last weekend. I was sound-man at our church for a wedding held there. The groom gave me a CD of the music they wanted. Popped it in the player - nothing. Put it in the computer, Window's Media found 3 songs. Put it back in the CD player - nothing. About this time the groom walks up and I explain what's happening. He says he's not sure why it wouldn't work as there's 3 mp3 files on the disc. Ahh.... it's not an AUDIO CD! He replied "Sure it is - it's a CD with audio files". Don't think he ever understood that it was not an "Audio CD" but, instead, a CD with audio files. Fortunately Vegas was on the computer so I just loaded the mp3 files on the timeline and burned an actual audio CD for the service. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

June 22nd, 2008, 06:13 PM	#1
Norris Combs Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: OC, CA Posts: 344	When rendering and burning wav files in Vegas 8 Pro How can I tell before rendering how large the project will be after rendering? I just rendered ac3 to wav, and the file came to 1.19 gb, way too large to fit on a blank CD (700 mb). I then had to cut back some songs, rendered again, still over 700 mb, deleted couple more songs, rendered,..... Thanks,

June 22nd, 2008, 06:17 PM	#2
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Why not render to MP3?

June 22nd, 2008, 06:20 PM	#3
Norris Combs Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: OC, CA Posts: 344	I do that most of the time for my car. But my wife's car CD player cannot play mp3, so I need to make a wav cd for her.

June 22nd, 2008, 06:25 PM	#4
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Well Norris, I don't know of a way to know in advance of file size in advance of rendering. I know if it were me I would just have to render at different settings untl I found the right setting. You just need to adjust the audio properties and play with it until you find the right size, unless someone else steps in here with an idea. good luck!

June 22nd, 2008, 06:55 PM	#5
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Looking at my bitrate calculator, it says 74 min. for a 650 MB CD. and 80 min. for a 700 MB. CD.

June 22nd, 2008, 08:47 PM	#6
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	It usually says right on the CD packaging; "80 minutes" or "74 minutes." Since audio CDs only use 44.1k 16bit stereo audio at a fixed bitrate, the 74 or 80 minute number is always accurate. DVDs sometimes say "120 minutes" which is marketing nonsense. How much you can fit on a DVD time-wise is entirely a function of bitrate. In that case of MPEG2 video encoding, bitrate can be set to by the user when encoding. It could be anything from, let's say, 74 minutes at 8Mbits/sec, to 9 hours (or more) at 1.864Mbits/sec (or less.)

June 22nd, 2008, 10:00 PM	#7
Norris Combs Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: OC, CA Posts: 344	So if my ac3 file is 60 minutes long on the Vegas timeline, it should fit on the CD fine PROVIDED I burn in ac3. However, after rendering to wav, the size balloons out as expected. It's this surprise balloon size that I need to find out before rendering. Thanks,

June 23rd, 2008, 09:50 AM	#10
Norris Combs Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: OC, CA Posts: 344	I rendered my ac3 file into 2 different files, wav and mp3. So now I have 2 files on the hard drive, let's call them Music.wav and Music.mp3. When I go to Tools-Burn Disc-Disc At Once, I don't see the option for me to select which of those 2 Music files I want burned. Previously, I only rendered to wav. So I was able to burn Music.wav, since it was the only Music file on the hard drive. Vegas didn't have to choose. Now there's a Music.mp3 file. Thanks!!!

June 23rd, 2008, 10:59 PM	#12
Norris Combs Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: OC, CA Posts: 344	I did a little "test". Got 2 different projects going, desired final result is a playable wav cd. In one project I rendered the ac3 audio on the timeline to wav, then burned. The other project I did not render, but went directly to burning. Both gave me the same wav cd. So what's the purpose of rendering? Thanks,

June 24th, 2008, 09:06 AM	#15
Norris Combs Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: OC, CA Posts: 344	Thanks, it's all clear now. For some odd reason, I kept thinking a commercial music CD is in wav format, that's why I wanted to render to wav first, then burn the wav file onto the CD. That's also why I wanted to calculate how much the file size will increase going from ac3 to wav. I even had to choose between 44k or 48k, 8 bit or 16 bit,.....Now burning directly on the timeline, having Vegas automatically select 44.1/16 is great, and the songs are in cda (is that PCM?) Thanks,