DVD replication options at DVinfo.net

Roger Shealy · May 20th, 2008, 07:26 AM

I'm making a video for a client that may want as few as 20 copies, or as many as 1000; depending on how initial sales go. I'm using Vegas Pro 8b and have a Sony DVD+R burner (SD).

What is the best way to produce the master DVD so it can replicated? Is just burning a good DVD+R adequate and the replication house can take it from there?

Richard Alvarez · May 20th, 2008, 08:57 AM

Ask the replication house what they want.

But yes, a clean DVD master is what they will need. I worked with PacificDisc, and got 1000 master of "American Jouster" replicated. Good people, fast service, fair price. I delivered TWO DVD-R discs. I made the master, and test played it all the way through on SIX different machine and three different computers to be sure they were flawless.

Rick Diaz · May 20th, 2008, 09:49 PM

Many replication houses prefer that you give them an ISO file or DVD folders that they will reproduce onto a master-quality disc for replication. This allows you to provide them the file via e-mail or ftp rather than having to physically take it to them or mail it. Most authoring software will allow you to output to DVD folders or ISO format. It also allows them to produce future copies for you without having to have your master DVD again.

Roger Shealy · May 21st, 2008, 05:25 AM

Thanks Rick, I'll look into ISO files in Vegas 8.

Rick Diaz · May 21st, 2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Shealy

Thanks Rick, I'll look into ISO files in Vegas 8.

Actually, contrary to popular belief, Vegas is NOT an actual authoring program. That's what DVD Architect is for. Nero is another authoring program that I know offers the choice of creating an ISO file.

Roger Shealy · May 21st, 2008, 06:57 PM

O.K., o.k., o.k. Rick, I meant DVD Architecture 4.5b; build 69!

I am a little confused why Sony puts them in two different programs. Kinda reminds me of Lotus 1,2,3 back in the 80's where you had to exit the spreadsheet to view a graph or print.

Edward Troxel · May 21st, 2008, 08:37 PM

They're two different programs because they do two different functions!

Vegas is an NLE - it edits video.

DVD Architect authors DVDs - you use it to create DVDs from your content edited in Vegas

Two different functions - two different programs. You don't use Word to create spreadsheets and you don't use Excel to write letters. Same here - you use the right program for the job you're wanting to do.

Roger Shealy · May 22nd, 2008, 05:38 AM

Sorry Ed, I respectfully disagree. The focus of a software manufacturer should be to make the entire work flow easier for the user, especially if they sell the packages as bundle. Why wouldn't you integrate them? What percentage of Vegas and DVDA do you think are sold independently versus a bundle? Think how nice it would be to make a change in editing and have the DVD program instantly reflect those changes without having to re-render the project! Some day soon that will be very possible with the processing speed and memory capacity we are approaching, but not if we keep artificial divisions in our workflow. Think how bizarre NLE was in the first place. What we need is NLLO (Non-Linear Lens to Output)!

The whole point may be mute as I imagine having a discrete computers and programs on our desk will be obsolete in the next 10-15 years as internet speeds go hyper and the visual production industry follows the path of internet TurboTax. Most of your your disk space, programs, and processing will be remote and we will all subscribe to a service with a cafeteria plan of integrated production tools you chose for a specific project. Most likely the content won't remain in your camera for more than a nanosecond before it zips off to the net for storage and preprocessing. All the delivery will be via whatever the net becomes so storing, processing, and delivering from the net will be default. And collaboration will become the norm. Instead of posting questions and answers on this forum, we'd be looking at each others projects and interjecting our actions on a version of the project or camera to help each other.

First we have to start with programs that integrate seamlessly.

Edward Troxel · May 22nd, 2008, 06:24 AM

What I can see that would, essentially, do what you're saying is allowing VEG files to be added as media for the DVD. DVD Architect would still have to render to MPEG2 but it could conceivably be more dynamic then without rendering.

Seth Bloombaum · May 22nd, 2008, 10:10 AM

As long as we're waxing philosophic...

Roger, I'm not quite with your logic, because the NLE and the authoring environment are so different in function.

The other examples you cite are very interesting; to pick on one of them, the internet-aware camera (or camcorder?) that would pull & process files wirelessly and automatically at the time of acquisition and deliver in a specified format is really intriguing, and I agree, we might well see that.

However, unless you're only doing a play-first movie for your DVD, what we do in authoring is to create a graphical user interface and design interaction. The output of our NLE is... linear! The output of our DVD authoring program is... non-linear and interactive!

If you're with me so far, wait until you see some of the blu-ray capabilities. Thinking of BR as a hidef dvd only sees the tip of the iceberg. The specification has embedded interactivity standards that will support gaming and education applications that are internet-aware.

So I think the view that DVD authoring ought to be integrated in Editing software is OK for a consumer/prosumer production model, but takes too narrow a view of what a DVD can be for prosumer/pro apps - and blu-ray really puts that arguement on its head.

But Edward's idea of pulling a veg into DVDA would be very helpful. You'd need to associate a render-as dialog with each veg... and be darn sure of what it is that you wanted. Preview may be the software engineering obstacle that makes it tough.

Garrett Low · May 22nd, 2008, 01:42 PM

I'm with Seth and Ed on this one. I really appreciate that Vegas and DVDA are separate programs. One trend in the software/hardware industry is to try to make an all in one product. While this may appeal to a large group of people who want to be able to just download their videos, do minimal edits, then burn a DVD, it would either lead to a program that is to limited in it's ability to create a customized final product, or one that is too limited in how it can be modified or upgraded.

I never allow DVD to render my videos, While it does a good job I find I can get noticeably better results if I use Vegas's rendering engines with adjustments to the settings to get the best quality video at the size I need. Also, I try to create a DVD that draws the viewer into an experience. I see my goal as taking the person who pops the DVD in thinking they want to just watch the main feature, and get them to want to watch the extras and other material on the disc.

Roger, I think your idea of the future is is somewhat optimistic and at the same time something I hope never comes fully true. From a technological stand point I don't think that Internet or WAN will ever be able to keep up with the speed demands of the AV world. I think it is conceivable that they will develop technology to be able to provide the needed bandwidth for todays videos but don't forget that as technology increases so will the "norm" for resolutions. Think about how the still photography world has gone pixel crazy. I remember how just a few years ago a 5 MP camera was thought to be super hi res. Now they have 25MP medium format cameras and point and shoots are up to 10MP.

On a more philosophical note, I don't think I would want the norm to become collaborative produced movies or videos. I think there is already too much worry about what others might think when people produce art. And if you go beyond capturing the family vacation for memories on video, I think you should think of your production as an artistic expression. It would be a great detriment if everything was produced based on a mass collaborate effort.

As far as an integrated software solution I think it's a balance of ease of use vs. the ability to create exactly what the producer wants. For me, it comes down to having the right tool for the job. I'm not going to be able to build a house with my Leatheman tool but when I'm out camping and I just want to open up can of beans or tighten down a screw, I sure am glad I have my trusted old multi tool with me.

Just some personal thoughts.

Roger Shealy · May 22nd, 2008, 08:38 PM

Guys,

First a confession; I'm a pro-sumer that loves this art and I am working hard to become better at it. I'm fully aware that I am not as skilled or knowledgeable as most of you in how all the systems in the industry work or how they came to be what they are. I am, however, intrigued by what could be.

My profession for the last 22 years has been in engineering and R&D. Neither do I claim to be able to see the future. I do, however, know that what can happen and what can increase profit often does happen. The technical barriers we see on bandwidth will diminish and are already well on their way. There is too much money to be made piping content across limitless channels for realtime pay-per-view and too many people wanting to be heard that are currently being filtered by the controlled media. Once bandwidth is conquered, hardware and processing will be minimized on the user's side and your ability to keep up with the competition in the industry will require tools beyond the reach of the individual . Joint ownership (subscription) at a centralized level will become the norm. Look at the growth of YouTube , Vimeo, and other file sharing/hosting sites. We use it because we can't afford to do it on our own. I believe we will use this type of service for storage and active processing in next 10 years.

As far as integration of the video production process, think of it as an extrapolation of plug-ins or audio creation in editing. All that used to be accomplished by separate programs or processing steps. Now it's integrated to make things easier for the user. Some come with the host program, some are purchased separately. They all work together. I just think DVD creation (or whatever output will be called in the future) will be integrated in a similar fashion.

Collaboration will happen for several reasons, neither of them precipitated by the producers of media. First, the consumer will demand more control of their content. Consider what has happened with digital audio media that the end user changes the mix and makes their own album. In the video industry you have "ClearPlay" where the user filters the content based on their own rules. Both are very primitive, but it's already happening. The content you craft will almost assuredly be customized by many users for their own particular use. Second, clients will demand the cheapest, fastest, highest quality content. Just as doctors now send X-Rays around the globe for evaluation, its very likely that what someone shoots in the USA all day long will be processed by someone in India or somewhere else all night long (their day) and someone else will pick it up in the morning. Two great reads are Daniel Pinks "A Whole New Mind" and "As the future Catches You" by Juan Enriquez . They describe a future where only those who can add context and design at an extremely high level will be able to avoid the commoditization in their industry and the demands of a relentless client. Two of the most prestigious institutions in America are starting the slide, reference Doctors & "medical tourism"); Lawyers and "legalzoom.com"). This isn't a doomsday speech. Quite the contrary. Those who are skilled beyond being replicated by technology or common practitioners will command higher fees. It will require all of us to learn and master a changing landscape.

Sorry to bore you guys. I need to get back to learning how to program CP's on my A1 and determine whether I like Panalook, Panalook2, or VividRGB better! So much to learn!

May 20th, 2008, 07:26 AM	#1
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	DVD replication options I'm making a video for a client that may want as few as 20 copies, or as many as 1000; depending on how initial sales go. I'm using Vegas Pro 8b and have a Sony DVD+R burner (SD). What is the best way to produce the master DVD so it can replicated? Is just burning a good DVD+R adequate and the replication house can take it from there?

May 21st, 2008, 08:37 PM	#7
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	They're two different programs because they do two different functions! Vegas is an NLE - it edits video. DVD Architect authors DVDs - you use it to create DVDs from your content edited in Vegas Two different functions - two different programs. You don't use Word to create spreadsheets and you don't use Excel to write letters. Same here - you use the right program for the job you're wanting to do. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

May 22nd, 2008, 05:38 AM	#8
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Sorry Ed, I respectfully disagree. The focus of a software manufacturer should be to make the entire work flow easier for the user, especially if they sell the packages as bundle. Why wouldn't you integrate them? What percentage of Vegas and DVDA do you think are sold independently versus a bundle? Think how nice it would be to make a change in editing and have the DVD program instantly reflect those changes without having to re-render the project! Some day soon that will be very possible with the processing speed and memory capacity we are approaching, but not if we keep artificial divisions in our workflow. Think how bizarre NLE was in the first place. What we need is NLLO (Non-Linear Lens to Output)! The whole point may be mute as I imagine having a discrete computers and programs on our desk will be obsolete in the next 10-15 years as internet speeds go hyper and the visual production industry follows the path of internet TurboTax. Most of your your disk space, programs, and processing will be remote and we will all subscribe to a service with a cafeteria plan of integrated production tools you chose for a specific project. Most likely the content won't remain in your camera for more than a nanosecond before it zips off to the net for storage and preprocessing. All the delivery will be via whatever the net becomes so storing, processing, and delivering from the net will be default. And collaboration will become the norm. Instead of posting questions and answers on this forum, we'd be looking at each others projects and interjecting our actions on a version of the project or camera to help each other. First we have to start with programs that integrate seamlessly. Last edited by Roger Shealy; May 22nd, 2008 at 06:09 AM.

May 22nd, 2008, 06:24 AM	#9
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	What I can see that would, essentially, do what you're saying is allowing VEG files to be added as media for the DVD. DVD Architect would still have to render to MPEG2 but it could conceivably be more dynamic then without rendering. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

May 20th, 2008, 08:57 AM	#2
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Ask the replication house what they want. But yes, a clean DVD master is what they will need. I worked with PacificDisc, and got 1000 master of "American Jouster" replicated. Good people, fast service, fair price. I delivered TWO DVD-R discs. I made the master, and test played it all the way through on SIX different machine and three different computers to be sure they were flawless.

May 20th, 2008, 09:49 PM	#3
Rick Diaz Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 146	Many replication houses prefer that you give them an ISO file or DVD folders that they will reproduce onto a master-quality disc for replication. This allows you to provide them the file via e-mail or ftp rather than having to physically take it to them or mail it. Most authoring software will allow you to output to DVD folders or ISO format. It also allows them to produce future copies for you without having to have your master DVD again.

May 21st, 2008, 05:25 AM	#4
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Thanks Rick, I'll look into ISO files in Vegas 8.

May 21st, 2008, 06:57 PM	#6
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	O.K., o.k., o.k. Rick, I meant DVD Architecture 4.5b; build 69! I am a little confused why Sony puts them in two different programs. Kinda reminds me of Lotus 1,2,3 back in the 80's where you had to exit the spreadsheet to view a graph or print.

May 22nd, 2008, 10:10 AM	#10
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	As long as we're waxing philosophic... Roger, I'm not quite with your logic, because the NLE and the authoring environment are so different in function. The other examples you cite are very interesting; to pick on one of them, the internet-aware camera (or camcorder?) that would pull & process files wirelessly and automatically at the time of acquisition and deliver in a specified format is really intriguing, and I agree, we might well see that. However, unless you're only doing a play-first movie for your DVD, what we do in authoring is to create a graphical user interface and design interaction. The output of our NLE is... linear! The output of our DVD authoring program is... non-linear and interactive! If you're with me so far, wait until you see some of the blu-ray capabilities. Thinking of BR as a hidef dvd only sees the tip of the iceberg. The specification has embedded interactivity standards that will support gaming and education applications that are internet-aware. So I think the view that DVD authoring ought to be integrated in Editing software is OK for a consumer/prosumer production model, but takes too narrow a view of what a DVD can be for prosumer/pro apps - and blu-ray really puts that arguement on its head. But Edward's idea of pulling a veg into DVDA would be very helpful. You'd need to associate a render-as dialog with each veg... and be darn sure of what it is that you wanted. Preview may be the software engineering obstacle that makes it tough.

May 22nd, 2008, 01:42 PM	#11
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	I'm with Seth and Ed on this one. I really appreciate that Vegas and DVDA are separate programs. One trend in the software/hardware industry is to try to make an all in one product. While this may appeal to a large group of people who want to be able to just download their videos, do minimal edits, then burn a DVD, it would either lead to a program that is to limited in it's ability to create a customized final product, or one that is too limited in how it can be modified or upgraded. I never allow DVD to render my videos, While it does a good job I find I can get noticeably better results if I use Vegas's rendering engines with adjustments to the settings to get the best quality video at the size I need. Also, I try to create a DVD that draws the viewer into an experience. I see my goal as taking the person who pops the DVD in thinking they want to just watch the main feature, and get them to want to watch the extras and other material on the disc. Roger, I think your idea of the future is is somewhat optimistic and at the same time something I hope never comes fully true. From a technological stand point I don't think that Internet or WAN will ever be able to keep up with the speed demands of the AV world. I think it is conceivable that they will develop technology to be able to provide the needed bandwidth for todays videos but don't forget that as technology increases so will the "norm" for resolutions. Think about how the still photography world has gone pixel crazy. I remember how just a few years ago a 5 MP camera was thought to be super hi res. Now they have 25MP medium format cameras and point and shoots are up to 10MP. On a more philosophical note, I don't think I would want the norm to become collaborative produced movies or videos. I think there is already too much worry about what others might think when people produce art. And if you go beyond capturing the family vacation for memories on video, I think you should think of your production as an artistic expression. It would be a great detriment if everything was produced based on a mass collaborate effort. As far as an integrated software solution I think it's a balance of ease of use vs. the ability to create exactly what the producer wants. For me, it comes down to having the right tool for the job. I'm not going to be able to build a house with my Leatheman tool but when I'm out camping and I just want to open up can of beans or tighten down a screw, I sure am glad I have my trusted old multi tool with me. Just some personal thoughts.

May 22nd, 2008, 08:38 PM	#12
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Guys, First a confession; I'm a pro-sumer that loves this art and I am working hard to become better at it. I'm fully aware that I am not as skilled or knowledgeable as most of you in how all the systems in the industry work or how they came to be what they are. I am, however, intrigued by what could be. My profession for the last 22 years has been in engineering and R&D. Neither do I claim to be able to see the future. I do, however, know that what can happen and what can increase profit often does happen. The technical barriers we see on bandwidth will diminish and are already well on their way. There is too much money to be made piping content across limitless channels for realtime pay-per-view and too many people wanting to be heard that are currently being filtered by the controlled media. Once bandwidth is conquered, hardware and processing will be minimized on the user's side and your ability to keep up with the competition in the industry will require tools beyond the reach of the individual . Joint ownership (subscription) at a centralized level will become the norm. Look at the growth of YouTube , Vimeo, and other file sharing/hosting sites. We use it because we can't afford to do it on our own. I believe we will use this type of service for storage and active processing in next 10 years. As far as integration of the video production process, think of it as an extrapolation of plug-ins or audio creation in editing. All that used to be accomplished by separate programs or processing steps. Now it's integrated to make things easier for the user. Some come with the host program, some are purchased separately. They all work together. I just think DVD creation (or whatever output will be called in the future) will be integrated in a similar fashion. Collaboration will happen for several reasons, neither of them precipitated by the producers of media. First, the consumer will demand more control of their content. Consider what has happened with digital audio media that the end user changes the mix and makes their own album. In the video industry you have "ClearPlay" where the user filters the content based on their own rules. Both are very primitive, but it's already happening. The content you craft will almost assuredly be customized by many users for their own particular use. Second, clients will demand the cheapest, fastest, highest quality content. Just as doctors now send X-Rays around the globe for evaluation, its very likely that what someone shoots in the USA all day long will be processed by someone in India or somewhere else all night long (their day) and someone else will pick it up in the morning. Two great reads are Daniel Pinks "A Whole New Mind" and "As the future Catches You" by Juan Enriquez . They describe a future where only those who can add context and design at an extremely high level will be able to avoid the commoditization in their industry and the demands of a relentless client. Two of the most prestigious institutions in America are starting the slide, reference Doctors & "medical tourism"); Lawyers and "legalzoom.com"). This isn't a doomsday speech. Quite the contrary. Those who are skilled beyond being replicated by technology or common practitioners will command higher fees. It will require all of us to learn and master a changing landscape. Sorry to bore you guys. I need to get back to learning how to program CP's on my A1 and determine whether I like Panalook, Panalook2, or VividRGB better! So much to learn!