What is making Vegas crash? at DVinfo.net

Bill Grant · May 18th, 2008, 09:46 PM

Hey everyone,
I have a vegas question. I have been using Vegas 7 since it came out with NO issues with the same machine/setup in SD. Now I am shooting HDV and am having issues. Here is my setup.
I am shooting HDV 60i to Sony Premium MiniDV tapes.
Uploading with an HV20
I have an eSata Seagate 500GB as a capture drive.
Windows XP and Vegas 7e.
What happens is that certain random clips seem to kill vegas when it tries to display any aspect of them. If I remove the clip from the project it works fine. It's not every clip and it's not on every project. I have shot 6 weddings in HDV plus 3 other projects and out of these I have 3 clips with the same issue. The thing I notice is in the project media thubmnail right before it crashes there is a green pixelization line the middle. I get no error on capture, and as soon as I remove the offending clip, everything works fine. Any thoughts? Is this just the HDV long GOP dropout that I've heard so much about or is there something different?
Anyway thanks in advance...
Bill

Jack Zhang · May 18th, 2008, 10:57 PM

Turn off HDV scene detection and recapture the affected clips.

This happens when something corrupts the data during capture. If you get a frame break during capture (bad sector on the HDD or processing speed being too slow), it will affect the file in the form of blank frames or pixelation. This can also happen after capture if you're using an unreliable HDD that is very prone to corrupt data. Stay away from unventilated Seagate drives or drives that corrupt data due to unstable voltages. The Seagate FreeAgent is the worst culprit for corrupt data and HDV.

Bill Grant · May 19th, 2008, 07:16 AM

You know Jack, Ive had this happen on both Western Digital and Seagates but I think you're reasoning is good. SO you think it might be a Hd sensitivity thing? I like that. The thing is if you listen to enough people you won't be able to use any brand of hard drive. My local computer guys tell me that WEstern Digital is failure waiting to happen. What's next Maxtor? nope. Samsung? nope. I'll stick with whatever's on sale at tiger for now. Do you think maybe the e-sata enclosure might bottleneck the upload?
Bill

Jack Zhang · May 19th, 2008, 07:28 AM

eSata's fine for data rates, it's just conditions like overheating or voltage fluctuations that cause corrupt data. Also more memory helps too.

The more reliable drives often are internal when capturing. A clean power source could also help a bit.

Gian Pablo Villamil · May 20th, 2008, 07:17 AM

I'd have to say corruption of the hard disk is unlikely - if there were errors in writing to drive, the OS would detect it, and you would have seen an error message. You can check if this is happening - right-click "My Computer", choose "Manage", choose "Event Viewer", choose "System", and look for any errors in the log.

It is more likely that the errors are being introduced at capture time, and are due to a flakey connection with the camera. I've had good luck with HDVSplit, but never had problems with Vegas either.

That said, don't rule out hardware problems, they can be strange and unexpected. I used to have all sorts of weird errors with rendering in Vegas. I tried changing out the RAM, graphics card, etc. Still crashes on long renders. Then I plugged everything into a pair of APC UPSes (Uninterruptible power supplies, basically batteries). Suddenly, no errors at all - for over two years.

Kim Olsson · May 20th, 2008, 02:02 PM

Must say that sound wired, that Vegas should work flawless again after you got an Uninterruptible power supplies... Why should just Vegas Rendering be affected when not using this UPSes... ???

This thing cant be the reason why Vegas Rendering engine gets corrupt/error, it could be that if you use many electric devices in same power socket, your devices could be hurt in a physical way.

No way it just effect the software of Vegas rendering....

You must have done something meanwhile you dont know about or remember...

To really solve this puzzle you cant guess, you have to spend about £10.000 on a research staff, both programmers and hardware elites...

Gian Pablo Villamil · May 21st, 2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kim Olsson

Must say that sound wired, that Vegas should work flawless again after you got an Uninterruptible power supplies... Why should just Vegas Rendering be affected when not using this UPSes... ???

This thing cant be the reason why Vegas Rendering engine gets corrupt/error, it could be that if you use many electric devices in same power socket, your devices could be hurt in a physical way.

No way it just effect the software of Vegas rendering....

You must have done something meanwhile you dont know about or remember...

To really solve this puzzle you cant guess, you have to spend about £10.000 on a research staff, both programmers and hardware elites...

Well, I know the power supply in our building is pretty erratic - we change light bulbs constantly, and the ground-check circuitry in the UPS always gives a warning. (The UPS is also powering a NAS, which sends me an email everytime the UPS power state changes. There is a short brownout at least once a month!)

So I think brownouts were occuring, not severe enough to shut down the computer, but enough to bother the external drives, and this was making Vegas rendering crash.

Kim Olsson · May 21st, 2008, 02:12 PM

Ok, then I understand. Yes that could be a reason. But I first though you meant that some crazy electric pulses chocked the Vegas Rendering process some how... =)

Yes if your Hd's where powered down, there would be a error for sure,,,
I read alot about this problem with rendering errors/crashes with high defenition editing.... I have had some of my self...

Some say memory leak, some say heat problems with the CPU, some say jpegs is the issue, especielly high resolution jpgs... try use png they say... some say bad sectors on your HD, some say video is corrupt, other say program incompatible issues, some say reduce "maximum number of rendering threads" to 1, even if you have more cores, and so on, much more issues was taken up...

But there where only 1 thing that let me rendered my video (photo motage with heavely track motion, FX, layers and so on..) without and problems.

It was:
1. Turn off your Dynamic RAM Preview to 0.

This will increase the rendering time in about the double. So if your project "should" have a rendering time of 6 hours, you new rendering time will be like 12 hours...

I know, Dynamic RAM Preview is how much memory RAM, you will let Vegas dedicate to make a portion of your RAM to cache video frames that cannot be rendered in real time...
How can this affect rendering?? Well Im confues!!

So all the issues I been told about, was NOT the problem.

Maybe a software issue from Sony Vegas itself? Maybe something how it handle the RAMs wrong... shit I dont know...

Anyway. Test my advice and increase the setting to "0" or maybe "64" or "128", sometime that works too, it will then render the 6 "real" hours with no reduced time....

Come back again and tell me if you worked it out...

/Kim

Bill Grant · May 22nd, 2008, 11:39 AM

Hey get a room you two! :) This isn't happening on render. This is happening when the project media window goes to display the thumbnail. Much less try to use the clip. I can't even click on the clip to view it. Crashes vegas every time. If I recapture then usually I'm good. Let's keep focussed people. btw I had a problem rendering when I was having heat issues on my processor. I realized that the problems started when I put the side back on my case. Without ventilation, the processor would overheat, and I would get errors. I added an additional case fan and it stopped. I could see how dirty power could cause fluctuations and heat issues, killing the render. you know so, there you go.
Bill

Paul Cascio · July 9th, 2008, 03:38 PM

Did you ever find the answer?

James Harring · July 9th, 2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Grant

Hey get a room you two! :) This isn't happening on render. This is happening when the project media window goes to display the thumbnail. Much less try to use the clip. I can't even click on the clip to view it. Crashes vegas every time. If I recapture then usually I'm good. Let's keep focussed people. btw I had a problem rendering when I was having heat issues on my processor. I realized that the problems started when I put the side back on my case. Without ventilation, the processor would overheat, and I would get errors. I added an additional case fan and it stopped. I could see how dirty power could cause fluctuations and heat issues, killing the render. you know so, there you go.
Bill

I had similar issues pre-rendering titles as m2t's. I only got a workaround that won't help you. You can read it if you want though.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...913#post871913

Sony never responded to my queries. I am pretty convinced there's a bug in the Main Concept mcmpgvdec.dll. I'm hanging on for Vegas 64, hoping there's going to be a 64bit version of the DLL. Incidentally, I can play these in just about any other player like VLC.

As for PC errors, the event viewer is your best tool. Generally errors confined to an app are the app's problem. If you had CPU errors, you'd likely see issues everywhere. Especially blue screens. Powersupply could be an issue, but that generally causes drives to disappear or other symptoms, again not just vegas. Do ensure all your PC stuff has a common ground, plugged into the same surge strip or ups. I've seen that cause problems.
If you want to check your disk thruput, I use this:
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/...t-Tester.shtml

Sorry I could not help you more.

Hugh Mobley · July 9th, 2008, 08:44 PM

I have found there is a direct relationship when using Vegas with ram being used up, hard drives being internal or external, and hdv in general. case in point today, I installed the new Magic Bullet looks, everything fine until I captured some clips with cineform to my internal drive. Just short clips to play with MB Looks, put them on time line, as soon as I put any effects on them Vegas crashed, over and over again, V8. I rebooted and no problem. Between MB and Cineform, they use alot of the computer, and after rebooting the ram refreshed and no problem, I am using a dual core, 2 gig of ram, etc. 3 internal drives, but, I am prone to have problem with my external drives, I never capture to an external drive any more, had problems, so its always to a internal drive, and, have had problems with vegas clips, if I move them from one drive to another, Vegas does not like that for some reason.

Stuart Campbell · July 11th, 2008, 12:56 AM

Is your HD footage recorded onto a new tape? Have you recorded any other formats on the same tape?

When digitising footage, you can send Vegas into a spin if there is corrupted time code or multiple format changes.

Just a thought.

May 18th, 2008, 09:46 PM	#1
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	What is making Vegas crash? Hey everyone, I have a vegas question. I have been using Vegas 7 since it came out with NO issues with the same machine/setup in SD. Now I am shooting HDV and am having issues. Here is my setup. I am shooting HDV 60i to Sony Premium MiniDV tapes. Uploading with an HV20 I have an eSata Seagate 500GB as a capture drive. Windows XP and Vegas 7e. What happens is that certain random clips seem to kill vegas when it tries to display any aspect of them. If I remove the clip from the project it works fine. It's not every clip and it's not on every project. I have shot 6 weddings in HDV plus 3 other projects and out of these I have 3 clips with the same issue. The thing I notice is in the project media thubmnail right before it crashes there is a green pixelization line the middle. I get no error on capture, and as soon as I remove the offending clip, everything works fine. Any thoughts? Is this just the HDV long GOP dropout that I've heard so much about or is there something different? Anyway thanks in advance... Bill

July 9th, 2008, 03:38 PM	#10
Paul Cascio Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bristol, CT (Home of EPSN) Posts: 1,192	Did you ever find the answer? __________________ Paul Cascio www.pictureframingschool.com

July 9th, 2008, 08:44 PM	#12
Hugh Mobley Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Placentia, Calif Posts: 549	I have found there is a direct relationship when using Vegas with ram being used up, hard drives being internal or external, and hdv in general. case in point today, I installed the new Magic Bullet looks, everything fine until I captured some clips with cineform to my internal drive. Just short clips to play with MB Looks, put them on time line, as soon as I put any effects on them Vegas crashed, over and over again, V8. I rebooted and no problem. Between MB and Cineform, they use alot of the computer, and after rebooting the ram refreshed and no problem, I am using a dual core, 2 gig of ram, etc. 3 internal drives, but, I am prone to have problem with my external drives, I never capture to an external drive any more, had problems, so its always to a internal drive, and, have had problems with vegas clips, if I move them from one drive to another, Vegas does not like that for some reason. __________________ Hugh Mobley www.petplanetvideos.com http://exposureroom.com/members/hmobley.aspx/

May 18th, 2008, 10:57 PM	#2
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Turn off HDV scene detection and recapture the affected clips. This happens when something corrupts the data during capture. If you get a frame break during capture (bad sector on the HDD or processing speed being too slow), it will affect the file in the form of blank frames or pixelation. This can also happen after capture if you're using an unreliable HDD that is very prone to corrupt data. Stay away from unventilated Seagate drives or drives that corrupt data due to unstable voltages. The Seagate FreeAgent is the worst culprit for corrupt data and HDV.

May 19th, 2008, 07:16 AM	#3
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	You know Jack, Ive had this happen on both Western Digital and Seagates but I think you're reasoning is good. SO you think it might be a Hd sensitivity thing? I like that. The thing is if you listen to enough people you won't be able to use any brand of hard drive. My local computer guys tell me that WEstern Digital is failure waiting to happen. What's next Maxtor? nope. Samsung? nope. I'll stick with whatever's on sale at tiger for now. Do you think maybe the e-sata enclosure might bottleneck the upload? Bill

May 19th, 2008, 07:28 AM	#4
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	eSata's fine for data rates, it's just conditions like overheating or voltage fluctuations that cause corrupt data. Also more memory helps too. The more reliable drives often are internal when capturing. A clean power source could also help a bit.

May 20th, 2008, 07:17 AM	#5
Gian Pablo Villamil Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 138	I'd have to say corruption of the hard disk is unlikely - if there were errors in writing to drive, the OS would detect it, and you would have seen an error message. You can check if this is happening - right-click "My Computer", choose "Manage", choose "Event Viewer", choose "System", and look for any errors in the log. It is more likely that the errors are being introduced at capture time, and are due to a flakey connection with the camera. I've had good luck with HDVSplit, but never had problems with Vegas either. That said, don't rule out hardware problems, they can be strange and unexpected. I used to have all sorts of weird errors with rendering in Vegas. I tried changing out the RAM, graphics card, etc. Still crashes on long renders. Then I plugged everything into a pair of APC UPSes (Uninterruptible power supplies, basically batteries). Suddenly, no errors at all - for over two years.

May 20th, 2008, 02:02 PM	#6
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Must say that sound wired, that Vegas should work flawless again after you got an Uninterruptible power supplies... Why should just Vegas Rendering be affected when not using this UPSes... ??? This thing cant be the reason why Vegas Rendering engine gets corrupt/error, it could be that if you use many electric devices in same power socket, your devices could be hurt in a physical way. No way it just effect the software of Vegas rendering.... You must have done something meanwhile you dont know about or remember... To really solve this puzzle you cant guess, you have to spend about £10.000 on a research staff, both programmers and hardware elites...

May 21st, 2008, 02:12 PM	#8
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Ok, then I understand. Yes that could be a reason. But I first though you meant that some crazy electric pulses chocked the Vegas Rendering process some how... =) Yes if your Hd's where powered down, there would be a error for sure,,, I read alot about this problem with rendering errors/crashes with high defenition editing.... I have had some of my self... Some say memory leak, some say heat problems with the CPU, some say jpegs is the issue, especielly high resolution jpgs... try use png they say... some say bad sectors on your HD, some say video is corrupt, other say program incompatible issues, some say reduce "maximum number of rendering threads" to 1, even if you have more cores, and so on, much more issues was taken up... But there where only 1 thing that let me rendered my video (photo motage with heavely track motion, FX, layers and so on..) without and problems. It was: 1. Turn off your Dynamic RAM Preview to 0. This will increase the rendering time in about the double. So if your project "should" have a rendering time of 6 hours, you new rendering time will be like 12 hours... I know, Dynamic RAM Preview is how much memory RAM, you will let Vegas dedicate to make a portion of your RAM to cache video frames that cannot be rendered in real time... How can this affect rendering?? Well Im confues!! So all the issues I been told about, was NOT the problem. Maybe a software issue from Sony Vegas itself? Maybe something how it handle the RAMs wrong... shit I dont know... Anyway. Test my advice and increase the setting to "0" or maybe "64" or "128", sometime that works too, it will then render the 6 "real" hours with no reduced time.... Come back again and tell me if you worked it out... /Kim

May 22nd, 2008, 11:39 AM	#9
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	Hey get a room you two! :) This isn't happening on render. This is happening when the project media window goes to display the thumbnail. Much less try to use the clip. I can't even click on the clip to view it. Crashes vegas every time. If I recapture then usually I'm good. Let's keep focussed people. btw I had a problem rendering when I was having heat issues on my processor. I realized that the problems started when I put the side back on my case. Without ventilation, the processor would overheat, and I would get errors. I added an additional case fan and it stopped. I could see how dirty power could cause fluctuations and heat issues, killing the render. you know so, there you go. Bill

July 11th, 2008, 12:56 AM	#13
Stuart Campbell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 400	Is your HD footage recorded onto a new tape? Have you recorded any other formats on the same tape? When digitising footage, you can send Vegas into a spin if there is corrupted time code or multiple format changes. Just a thought.