Lower Thirds and use within vegas at DVinfo.net

Peter Jefferson · July 13th, 2003, 02:32 AM

okies, i have afew hundred lower thirds in tga format, but when i layer them in vegas, the only way i can get to actually see it is by making sure the main video layer is set to ad (In the compositing menu) as well as having the lowe third track as being set to "add"...

if i add subtract, i get a negative effect which is quite cool, but doesnt relaly go with weddings.. LOL

either wy i was wondering if anyone here knew of a clean surefire way of using these cool additions to titles...

oh on thing, if u want to animate these babie, jsut run Pixellan flowtexture.. VERY VERY cool :)

Michael Wisniewski · July 13th, 2003, 03:32 PM

If I understand your question correctly ...

I think if you put the Lower Thirds track above your main video tracks in the timeline, Vegas automatically composites both, with the Lower Thirds track layered on top.

Vegas timeline:

Track 01 | Lower thirds graphics
-------------------------------------------------------------
Track 02 | Video
-------------------------------------------------------------
Track 03 | Audio
-------------------------------------------------------------

* This assumes you've set the alpha channel in the Lower Thirds graphics and that you can even do that with the .tga format.

Tor Salomonsen · July 14th, 2003, 02:46 AM

What is Lower Third (in this context)?

K. Forman · July 14th, 2003, 07:30 AM

A lower third is usually graphics or animation, like you would see on the news, sports, or other programs.

Tor Salomonsen · July 14th, 2003, 10:16 AM

OK, but why is it called lower third?

K. Forman · July 14th, 2003, 11:01 AM

Because they are positioned in the lower third of the screen?

Tor Salomonsen · July 14th, 2003, 12:13 PM

Fine. Thank you, I think we're getting there. It's just that from the way they have been mentioned in this thread I got the feeling lower thirds are something common (that I haven't even heard about). Are they something I may have seen - if so, where? Where are they used? Please make me say "Oh that".

K. Forman · July 14th, 2003, 12:30 PM

They are positioned in the lower third of the screen, using the "rule of thirds" terminology. Anytime you watch a sports show, or a talk show, and the bottom of the screen has some sort of graphics or animation, these are lower thirds. "Channel 6 News" with the reporters name might be an example. I can't say where you might have seen it, because you programming may be different from ours.

Brian M. Dickman · July 14th, 2003, 02:05 PM

It sounds like you might not have a transparent color in your images, so the track is blanking out everything above the graphic as well as where the real graphic should be covering.

Two solutions, both pretty simple. First would be to apply a chroma key filter, and key it to whatever the color is on the "other" two thirds of the image (likely black). Secondly, depending on how complex and blended the top edge of the third is, you might just be able to "hack" it off with a pan & crop. Turn off "fit to frame" and "maintain aspect ratio" and just drag the top edge of the frame down so it only covers the graphic part of the lower third. The rest will get tossed out and allow your lower layers to show through.

Tor Salomonsen · July 14th, 2003, 02:16 PM

I get it, thanks. Seems like we might need an online dictionary (like a faq) to spread and harmonize the understanding of specialist terms and expressions.

K. Forman · July 14th, 2003, 02:43 PM

I agree. The terms used in videography, film, and broadcast, can have someone lost in nothing flat. I am familiar with lower thirds, because I have seen animations for sale from several companies, that I refuse to pay for because I can make my own.

The rule of thirds refers to the way you "should" position a person in the frame. It divides your frame into thirds, both horizontaly and verticaly. Thus the term, lower third.

Tor Salomonsen · July 14th, 2003, 03:53 PM

Now that I know what we're talking about, perhaps I can turn to the original question. It seems that Brian has answered very good and to the point. But I'd like to add that .png is the preferred stills format for Vegas - because it is compressed, but practically lossless, it has alpha channel, and it does not require Vegas to draw on outside apps for rendering.

Peter Jefferson · July 20th, 2003, 02:54 AM

I ben experienting and found that creating lower thirds is more fun than looking for them...

on top of that, animating them is a breeze. Im using Pixellan Spicemaster (Flow texture) to get them moving..

thing is with Vegas compsoite modes, im gettin a little confused with lighten/darken/burn etc..

I can see the effect these dfferent settings have and find that if i use the lighten setting on the Thirs (even title) then use Source Alpha for the main video track...

theres lots of different ways to get it goin (even to give it a negative kind of look) but i jsut want the basics...

with this game, theres no stopping the lernign phase is there.. ? :)

July 13th, 2003, 02:32 AM	#1
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Lower Thirds and use within vegas okies, i have afew hundred lower thirds in tga format, but when i layer them in vegas, the only way i can get to actually see it is by making sure the main video layer is set to ad (In the compositing menu) as well as having the lowe third track as being set to "add"... if i add subtract, i get a negative effect which is quite cool, but doesnt relaly go with weddings.. LOL either wy i was wondering if anyone here knew of a clean surefire way of using these cool additions to titles... oh on thing, if u want to animate these babie, jsut run Pixellan flowtexture.. VERY VERY cool :)

July 13th, 2003, 03:32 PM	#2
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	If I understand your question correctly ... I think if you put the Lower Thirds track above your main video tracks in the timeline, Vegas automatically composites both, with the Lower Thirds track layered on top. Vegas timeline: Track 01 \| Lower thirds graphics ------------------------------------------------------------- Track 02 \| Video ------------------------------------------------------------- Track 03 \| Audio ------------------------------------------------------------- * This assumes you've set the alpha channel in the Lower Thirds graphics and that you can even do that with the .tga format. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

July 14th, 2003, 02:46 AM	#3
Tor Salomonsen Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stavanger, Norway Posts: 265	What is Lower Third (in this context)?

July 14th, 2003, 07:30 AM	#4
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	A lower third is usually graphics or animation, like you would see on the news, sports, or other programs.

July 14th, 2003, 10:16 AM	#5
Tor Salomonsen Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stavanger, Norway Posts: 265	OK, but why is it called lower third?

July 14th, 2003, 11:01 AM	#6
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Because they are positioned in the lower third of the screen?

July 14th, 2003, 12:13 PM	#7
Tor Salomonsen Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stavanger, Norway Posts: 265	Fine. Thank you, I think we're getting there. It's just that from the way they have been mentioned in this thread I got the feeling lower thirds are something common (that I haven't even heard about). Are they something I may have seen - if so, where? Where are they used? Please make me say "Oh that".

July 14th, 2003, 12:30 PM	#8
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	They are positioned in the lower third of the screen, using the "rule of thirds" terminology. Anytime you watch a sports show, or a talk show, and the bottom of the screen has some sort of graphics or animation, these are lower thirds. "Channel 6 News" with the reporters name might be an example. I can't say where you might have seen it, because you programming may be different from ours.

July 14th, 2003, 02:05 PM	#9
Brian M. Dickman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 148	It sounds like you might not have a transparent color in your images, so the track is blanking out everything above the graphic as well as where the real graphic should be covering. Two solutions, both pretty simple. First would be to apply a chroma key filter, and key it to whatever the color is on the "other" two thirds of the image (likely black). Secondly, depending on how complex and blended the top edge of the third is, you might just be able to "hack" it off with a pan & crop. Turn off "fit to frame" and "maintain aspect ratio" and just drag the top edge of the frame down so it only covers the graphic part of the lower third. The rest will get tossed out and allow your lower layers to show through.

July 14th, 2003, 02:16 PM	#10
Tor Salomonsen Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stavanger, Norway Posts: 265	I get it, thanks. Seems like we might need an online dictionary (like a faq) to spread and harmonize the understanding of specialist terms and expressions.

July 14th, 2003, 02:43 PM	#11
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I agree. The terms used in videography, film, and broadcast, can have someone lost in nothing flat. I am familiar with lower thirds, because I have seen animations for sale from several companies, that I refuse to pay for because I can make my own. The rule of thirds refers to the way you "should" position a person in the frame. It divides your frame into thirds, both horizontaly and verticaly. Thus the term, lower third.

July 14th, 2003, 03:53 PM	#12
Tor Salomonsen Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stavanger, Norway Posts: 265	Now that I know what we're talking about, perhaps I can turn to the original question. It seems that Brian has answered very good and to the point. But I'd like to add that .png is the preferred stills format for Vegas - because it is compressed, but practically lossless, it has alpha channel, and it does not require Vegas to draw on outside apps for rendering.

July 20th, 2003, 02:54 AM	#13
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	I ben experienting and found that creating lower thirds is more fun than looking for them... on top of that, animating them is a breeze. Im using Pixellan Spicemaster (Flow texture) to get them moving.. thing is with Vegas compsoite modes, im gettin a little confused with lighten/darken/burn etc.. I can see the effect these dfferent settings have and find that if i use the lighten setting on the Thirs (even title) then use Source Alpha for the main video track... theres lots of different ways to get it goin (even to give it a negative kind of look) but i jsut want the basics... with this game, theres no stopping the lernign phase is there.. ? :)