Survey: How many video tracks do you end with? at DVinfo.net

Tim Kay · January 3rd, 2008, 12:42 AM

So this question came to me a while i was working with an editor. Granted, he is a novice but he got me wondering.

While editing a full 1/2 hour program, my editor used only 1 video channel. I tried talking to him and telling him how much extra work he's doing by trying to do it all in one channel. Me, i'm on the other end. For a 1 minute piece I ended up using 5-6 video channel's. So how many do you guys end up using? Looking forward to hearing how different each of us edit.

Marty Baggen · January 3rd, 2008, 08:19 AM

It completely depends on the nature of the edit.

I prefer a single channel approach, adding channels only when an overlay is needed.

The length of the program seems irrelevant to the number of tracks used.

For any serious layering, I hop over to AE. I do my edits in Premiere, but also have Vegas 8 and my approach is the same.

Some unsolicited advice... I've never met an editor who enjoys being told why he's doing things wrong. You may want to have him demonstrate why he prefers keeping things to a minimal number of tracks. It's all about embracing a workflow that suits us. Perhaps you may discover efficiencies worth trying.

Ian Stark · January 3rd, 2008, 11:49 AM

I use numerous tracks (varies, but has been up to seven or eight at times) when I'm first assembling my material, with one 'master' track where the 'likely candidates' go. I find it easier to group clips in this way when selecting shots. I have never used the trimmer as I do this all on the timeline.

After that, any clips that have different track motion settings (eg PinP) end up on their own track. If there is no requirement for track motion or (simple) compositing then all clips end up on a single track. Overlays, like titles, lower thirds, bugs, etc all get their own tracks.

Typically I end up with around two or three video (footage) tracks plus three or four overlay tracks. As Marty says, completely depends on the job in hand - I have had as many as twenty different tracks on a complex three minute piece and as few as four on a thirty minute project.

As I recall (and this is going back a while so I may have got this wrong) Premiere used to just have two tracks. Because I come from an audio editing background, the unlimited tracks that Vegas offered seemed the easier concept to grasp when I stepped up to video. Otherwise I am fairly sure I'd be a Premiere user now.

As I have said before in this forum, I am amazed at how you can do quite complex compositing work in Vegas - but there is always a point when it makes more sense to go out to AE. I don't see that changing any time soon.

Ian . . .

Jon Fairhurst · January 3rd, 2008, 12:36 PM

The only number worse than 1 would be 0. ;)

Michael Wisniewski · January 3rd, 2008, 12:45 PM

Just did a short piece where the company wanted a "Miami Vice" introduction and ended up with 30 video tracks. With that type of fast paced montage, I find it's much easier to fine tune using a large number of tracks. The rest of the corporate video only took 2 tracks. Typically I use between 1-5 video tracks.

Andy Wilkinson · January 3rd, 2008, 01:10 PM

Typically have 2-3 video tracks and 2-3 audio, maybe 4-5 audio...but each project I do is getting more and more complex (and impressive to my eyes and my limited audience!) so these numbers are likely to climb! Note, I've only had Vegas 7e for a couple of months.

I read somewhere that any sections of "overlapping" video and audio tracks (that are not "seen/heard") can significantly increase the rendering time on the final project but don't know if this is true or not. I could half imagine it might be so maybe it's good practice to "trim" any unwanted overlapping bits back before the final render, maybe???

Anyone know for sure about this?

Edward Troxel · January 3rd, 2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

I read somewhere that any sections of "overlapping" video and audio tracks (that are not "seen/heard") can significantly increase the rendering time on the final project but don't know if this is true or not. I could half imagine it might be so maybe it's good practice to "trim" any unwanted overlapping bits back before the final render, maybe???

Anyone know for sure about this?

If you have a video track above another video track and the top one is full screen/full opacity, it will override everything below it. I've not seen any slowdowns in that situation. For example, if the top track is unmodified DV, it just gets copied at full speed whether or not there are other tracks below it. This is from the experience of many multi-cam projects.

Jon Fairhurst · January 3rd, 2008, 03:52 PM

I can confirm Edward's assertion. I believe that holds true since the very earliest versions of Vegas Video.

Andy Wilkinson · January 3rd, 2008, 04:11 PM

One of the great things about this forum is the breadth of (accurate) knowledge and fast response times to technical questions like this that "enthusiastic amateurs" (like me) always seem to have as we learn/get in a little over our heads.

No wonder DVinfo has become my "1st port of call" for all things video and audio these days! We stand on the shoulders of giants with all the freely provided help. Thanks for clarifing this both of you.

James Hooey · January 3rd, 2008, 06:33 PM

My workflow and track usage follows similar to Ian's....

I create individual tracks based on what sort of content I am creating on them. So it's often a couple of tracks for main video clips, sometimes a seperate track or two here for those clips as well that groups the video into color correction groups or effects groups. Seperate tracks for titles and overlays. Seperate tracks for opening and closing credits. Roughly a average project runs between 15 - 40 tracks for most of the work between 15minute to 1 hr.

Audio is a similar situation where I will have music bed tracks, stinger tracks, background audio tracks, and the occasional FX and one shot tracks.

I like being able to work in a grouped mentality with my projects and this method gives me a visually easy way to see particular types of tracks and sections of the project.

As far as rendering goes I have not noticed any slow down issues using this workflow as I have also done similar projects on single tracks.

The great thing about Vegas is that it works with several types of workflows without compromise......k Sony you can pay me a lip service fee if you like :)

James
Sound Pro Studios

Graham Bernard · January 4th, 2008, 01:56 AM

As a concept develops, my workflow creates more and more tracks. The number of tracks swells and becomes more complex towards the mid-term of the creation of the piece; as I thin out and refine the concept, gradually the number of tracks reduces moving towards the final video for final rendering.

Bound into this approach, I use nested timelines allowing a view of that section within the main project which also provides me with a one click exo-main-project option for further edits.

Grazie

January 3rd, 2008, 12:42 AM	#1
Tim Kay Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: SF & LA Posts: 195	Survey: How many video tracks do you end with? So this question came to me a while i was working with an editor. Granted, he is a novice but he got me wondering. While editing a full 1/2 hour program, my editor used only 1 video channel. I tried talking to him and telling him how much extra work he's doing by trying to do it all in one channel. Me, i'm on the other end. For a 1 minute piece I ended up using 5-6 video channel's. So how many do you guys end up using? Looking forward to hearing how different each of us edit. __________________ Event Production Services \| Video Production San Francisco

January 3rd, 2008, 11:49 AM	#3
Ian Stark Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,237	I use numerous tracks (varies, but has been up to seven or eight at times) when I'm first assembling my material, with one 'master' track where the 'likely candidates' go. I find it easier to group clips in this way when selecting shots. I have never used the trimmer as I do this all on the timeline. After that, any clips that have different track motion settings (eg PinP) end up on their own track. If there is no requirement for track motion or (simple) compositing then all clips end up on a single track. Overlays, like titles, lower thirds, bugs, etc all get their own tracks. Typically I end up with around two or three video (footage) tracks plus three or four overlay tracks. As Marty says, completely depends on the job in hand - I have had as many as twenty different tracks on a complex three minute piece and as few as four on a thirty minute project. As I recall (and this is going back a while so I may have got this wrong) Premiere used to just have two tracks. Because I come from an audio editing background, the unlimited tracks that Vegas offered seemed the easier concept to grasp when I stepped up to video. Otherwise I am fairly sure I'd be a Premiere user now. As I have said before in this forum, I am amazed at how you can do quite complex compositing work in Vegas - but there is always a point when it makes more sense to go out to AE. I don't see that changing any time soon. Ian . . . __________________ www.vit-media.com www.classicmachinefilms.co.uk

January 3rd, 2008, 12:36 PM	#4
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	The only number worse than 1 would be 0. ;) __________________ Jon Fairhurst Last edited by Jon Fairhurst; January 3rd, 2008 at 03:50 PM.

January 3rd, 2008, 12:45 PM	#5
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Just did a short piece where the company wanted a "Miami Vice" introduction and ended up with 30 video tracks. With that type of fast paced montage, I find it's much easier to fine tune using a large number of tracks. The rest of the corporate video only took 2 tracks. Typically I use between 1-5 video tracks. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

January 3rd, 2008, 01:10 PM	#6
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Vegas Video Track Numbers Typically have 2-3 video tracks and 2-3 audio, maybe 4-5 audio...but each project I do is getting more and more complex (and impressive to my eyes and my limited audience!) so these numbers are likely to climb! Note, I've only had Vegas 7e for a couple of months. I read somewhere that any sections of "overlapping" video and audio tracks (that are not "seen/heard") can significantly increase the rendering time on the final project but don't know if this is true or not. I could half imagine it might be so maybe it's good practice to "trim" any unwanted overlapping bits back before the final render, maybe??? Anyone know for sure about this? __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

January 3rd, 2008, 08:19 AM	#2
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	It completely depends on the nature of the edit. I prefer a single channel approach, adding channels only when an overlay is needed. The length of the program seems irrelevant to the number of tracks used. For any serious layering, I hop over to AE. I do my edits in Premiere, but also have Vegas 8 and my approach is the same. Some unsolicited advice... I've never met an editor who enjoys being told why he's doing things wrong. You may want to have him demonstrate why he prefers keeping things to a minimal number of tracks. It's all about embracing a workflow that suits us. Perhaps you may discover efficiencies worth trying.

January 3rd, 2008, 03:52 PM	#8
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	I can confirm Edward's assertion. I believe that holds true since the very earliest versions of Vegas Video. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

January 3rd, 2008, 04:11 PM	#9
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	One of the great things about this forum is the breadth of (accurate) knowledge and fast response times to technical questions like this that "enthusiastic amateurs" (like me) always seem to have as we learn/get in a little over our heads. No wonder DVinfo has become my "1st port of call" for all things video and audio these days! We stand on the shoulders of giants with all the freely provided help. Thanks for clarifing this both of you. __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production Last edited by Andy Wilkinson; January 3rd, 2008 at 04:14 PM. Reason: typo!

January 3rd, 2008, 06:33 PM	#10
James Hooey Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bruce Pennisula, Canada Posts: 316	My workflow and track usage follows similar to Ian's.... I create individual tracks based on what sort of content I am creating on them. So it's often a couple of tracks for main video clips, sometimes a seperate track or two here for those clips as well that groups the video into color correction groups or effects groups. Seperate tracks for titles and overlays. Seperate tracks for opening and closing credits. Roughly a average project runs between 15 - 40 tracks for most of the work between 15minute to 1 hr. Audio is a similar situation where I will have music bed tracks, stinger tracks, background audio tracks, and the occasional FX and one shot tracks. I like being able to work in a grouped mentality with my projects and this method gives me a visually easy way to see particular types of tracks and sections of the project. As far as rendering goes I have not noticed any slow down issues using this workflow as I have also done similar projects on single tracks. The great thing about Vegas is that it works with several types of workflows without compromise......k Sony you can pay me a lip service fee if you like :) James Sound Pro Studios __________________ For Stock Footage http://www.revostock.com/ViewProfile.html?&ID=4811 My Website http://www.soundprostudios.com

January 4th, 2008, 01:56 AM	#11
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	As a concept develops, my workflow creates more and more tracks. The number of tracks swells and becomes more complex towards the mid-term of the creation of the piece; as I thin out and refine the concept, gradually the number of tracks reduces moving towards the final video for final rendering. Bound into this approach, I use nested timelines allowing a view of that section within the main project which also provides me with a one click exo-main-project option for further edits. Grazie