VO in the toilet at DVinfo.net

Stuart Campbell · November 26th, 2007, 06:11 AM

Hi, this is weird.

I've imported a VO into Vegas. In the record (in a booth) audio was spot on. Playback on the tape is spot on. Playback in the Vegas timeline, awful! Somehow, the VO has an awful 'in the toilet' effect. All effects are off on the track!

This is happening every time I try this! I've tried digitising the audio to a new file, but same problem! Is Vegas doing something to my audio when importing it? If so what!!??

In the short term, any ideas to get rid of a reverb effect!

Ta

p.s I've never had this problem before when importing VO's!! The only thing different with this one is a different mic was used to record.

Daniel Alexander · November 26th, 2007, 07:56 AM

Hi Staurt. What did you use to record the audio and exactly how are you importing it into vegas?

Mike Kujbida · November 26th, 2007, 08:38 AM

Stuart, there is more than one place for an audio FX to be applied.
Make sure you check the master output as well.
To confirm that it's nothing in your project somewhere, start a new project, import that clip only and see what it sounds like.

Seth Bloombaum · November 26th, 2007, 11:09 AM

Stereo file?

Is it possible that booth monitoring and tape playback were done with headphones, and now you are in Vegas you're monitoring on speakers?

If so, it is possible that somewhere in your studio wiring, say mixer output to whatever you're digitizing with (sound card?), the phase of one of the channels got inverted. The permanent fix is to trace and test all the wiring.

The project fix would be to right-click on the clip and select "Channels | Left Channel Only" or such.

Gerry Gallegos · November 26th, 2007, 12:10 PM

I would second the "out of phase" on one channel thing. First... How was the VO recorded? first thing I would try is: separate left and right and mute one of them and see if that get you full sound again. if you used an XLR cable to 3.5mm cable that is not sending pin 2 to both the tip and the ring, then you are definitely sending out of phase material to left or right channels. what happens with some adapter cables is that they don't sum to both left and right and will connect pin2 to tip pin 3 to ring and pin1 to sleeve, and a balanced signal consist of a + on pin 2 a - on pin3(not a ground) and the ground on pin1. so the camera would record it left channel positive and right channel negative (out of phase). explaining the bathroom reverb sound,

Stuart Campbell · November 26th, 2007, 02:41 PM

Thanks guys,

My first though was an inverse phase, then some hidden fx plug in within Vegas. None of those.

As I said, the only thing that was different was the mic. At the moment the most convenient way for me to do these VO's is to stick the 416 straight into the camera recording on one track. All XLR by the way. (It's a temporary measure where the camera sits outside of the booth with the cable going through a small hole in the door and mic plus talent in booth).

Now, the usual 416 is on loan. The replacement mic.....a RODE NTG1........it's pants! Or so it seems!

The strange thing is, when monitoring the level during record through the cans (very decent cans too) everything seems fine and I can't hear any 'Toilet atmos'. Even if I play the tape through a VTR and monitor I'm getting a little bit of 'toilet', but not too much. As soon as I chuck it into Vegas, I get 'super toilet'! For some reason Vegas seems to be accentuating the toilet problem! The RODE seems to be causing it in the first place but Vegas is just turning it all into dysentery!

I've tried various monitoring solutions, the problem definitely gets worse once in Vegas (acknowledging that the RODE is the main culprit).

Any ideas on an 'anti reverb' plugin? Is there one out there called Sony immodium perhaps? Would like to sort this without calling the talent back for VO number 3 (no jokes about number two)!

Thanks

Gerry Gallegos · November 27th, 2007, 10:40 AM

Its a Phase issue I guarantee it. the reason you cant hear it on headphones is because your ear hears each side separately, the problem comes when the left and right channels intermingle acoustically or electronically. what kind of adapters are you using to get the sound into your cam? where are you getting phantom to operate the mic? a plug in will not solve the real problem, that would be like changing the air freshener in your car in order to get better gas milage. my suspision is that it is in the "adapters" that you use to get the signal to the cam. NTG1 needs phantom power... how are you supplying it? it might be in that box. Please give a detailed list of signal path.

Bill Mecca · November 27th, 2007, 11:09 AM

Here's a thought. did you record the vo on one channel (mono) and have it set up as a linked stereo file in the timeline, and once channel is slightly off in timing creating a delay.

If it is actual reverb recorded on the original signal then you are pretty much out of luck getting rid of it. Your time would be better spent re-recording the VO.

Stuart Campbell · November 27th, 2007, 11:42 AM

Gerry, I know what you mean, it really is suspiciously like an inverse phase! However, there's no place for a phase fault!! XLR straight from mic to camera. Just the one cable!! Camera supplying phantom volts to mic. Maybe I should check with another cable. Failing that, is it possible the mic is duff?

So, could you explain how it would sound fine over the cans then? Can't remember if I was monitoring playback or EtoE. Will check. Think I'll have to go through all options and test this out when I get time.

Bill, the VO is recorded onto track 1 (left) and then once imported into Vegas I just select Left Only from Channels after right clicking the track. (obviously this just emphasises the fault)

Can't get the talent back for ages! Typical, going to have to work with what I've got for now and get this sorted at the VERY last minute!!

Gerry Gallegos · November 27th, 2007, 02:50 PM

try making the audio track as tall as you can and comparing the waves from right to left, if when you zoom in you don't see a timing difference (here a small difference will make a big sound difference ) look at that first. if they are not identical then you have to unlock them from each other and slide one to make identical with the other. this will at least tell you if the wave forms are in sync. have you listened to "playback" in the cans? does it sound like when you were recording? did you use the same camera to import the tape? what camera? how reflective is the VO room?

Bill Mecca · November 28th, 2007, 10:18 AM

Stuart,

could you post a short mp3 sample someplace, listening might spark some other ideas.

It's a preplexing problem for sure. Wish I could be of more help.

could your speakers be out of phase rather than the original signal?

November 26th, 2007, 06:11 AM	#1
Stuart Campbell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 400	VO in the toilet Hi, this is weird. I've imported a VO into Vegas. In the record (in a booth) audio was spot on. Playback on the tape is spot on. Playback in the Vegas timeline, awful! Somehow, the VO has an awful 'in the toilet' effect. All effects are off on the track! This is happening every time I try this! I've tried digitising the audio to a new file, but same problem! Is Vegas doing something to my audio when importing it? If so what!!?? In the short term, any ideas to get rid of a reverb effect! Ta p.s I've never had this problem before when importing VO's!! The only thing different with this one is a different mic was used to record.

November 26th, 2007, 12:10 PM	#5
Gerry Gallegos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 262	Toilet I would second the "out of phase" on one channel thing. First... How was the VO recorded? first thing I would try is: separate left and right and mute one of them and see if that get you full sound again. if you used an XLR cable to 3.5mm cable that is not sending pin 2 to both the tip and the ring, then you are definitely sending out of phase material to left or right channels. what happens with some adapter cables is that they don't sum to both left and right and will connect pin2 to tip pin 3 to ring and pin1 to sleeve, and a balanced signal consist of a + on pin 2 a - on pin3(not a ground) and the ground on pin1. so the camera would record it left channel positive and right channel negative (out of phase). explaining the bathroom reverb sound,

November 26th, 2007, 02:41 PM	#6
Stuart Campbell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 400	put the mic in the toilet! Thanks guys, My first though was an inverse phase, then some hidden fx plug in within Vegas. None of those. As I said, the only thing that was different was the mic. At the moment the most convenient way for me to do these VO's is to stick the 416 straight into the camera recording on one track. All XLR by the way. (It's a temporary measure where the camera sits outside of the booth with the cable going through a small hole in the door and mic plus talent in booth). Now, the usual 416 is on loan. The replacement mic.....a RODE NTG1........it's pants! Or so it seems! The strange thing is, when monitoring the level during record through the cans (very decent cans too) everything seems fine and I can't hear any 'Toilet atmos'. Even if I play the tape through a VTR and monitor I'm getting a little bit of 'toilet', but not too much. As soon as I chuck it into Vegas, I get 'super toilet'! For some reason Vegas seems to be accentuating the toilet problem! The RODE seems to be causing it in the first place but Vegas is just turning it all into dysentery! I've tried various monitoring solutions, the problem definitely gets worse once in Vegas (acknowledging that the RODE is the main culprit). Any ideas on an 'anti reverb' plugin? Is there one out there called Sony immodium perhaps? Would like to sort this without calling the talent back for VO number 3 (no jokes about number two)! Thanks

November 27th, 2007, 10:40 AM	#7
Gerry Gallegos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 262	Mega Toilet Its a Phase issue I guarantee it. the reason you cant hear it on headphones is because your ear hears each side separately, the problem comes when the left and right channels intermingle acoustically or electronically. what kind of adapters are you using to get the sound into your cam? where are you getting phantom to operate the mic? a plug in will not solve the real problem, that would be like changing the air freshener in your car in order to get better gas milage. my suspision is that it is in the "adapters" that you use to get the signal to the cam. NTG1 needs phantom power... how are you supplying it? it might be in that box. Please give a detailed list of signal path.

November 27th, 2007, 11:09 AM	#8
Bill Mecca Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 475	Here's a thought. did you record the vo on one channel (mono) and have it set up as a linked stereo file in the timeline, and once channel is slightly off in timing creating a delay. If it is actual reverb recorded on the original signal then you are pretty much out of luck getting rid of it. Your time would be better spent re-recording the VO. __________________ Award-winning Pine Barrens Documentary! Video, Audio, Music & More

November 26th, 2007, 07:56 AM	#2
Daniel Alexander Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: West Midlands, UK Posts: 320	Hi Staurt. What did you use to record the audio and exactly how are you importing it into vegas?

November 26th, 2007, 08:38 AM	#3
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Stuart, there is more than one place for an audio FX to be applied. Make sure you check the master output as well. To confirm that it's nothing in your project somewhere, start a new project, import that clip only and see what it sounds like.

November 26th, 2007, 11:09 AM	#4
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Stereo file? Is it possible that booth monitoring and tape playback were done with headphones, and now you are in Vegas you're monitoring on speakers? If so, it is possible that somewhere in your studio wiring, say mixer output to whatever you're digitizing with (sound card?), the phase of one of the channels got inverted. The permanent fix is to trace and test all the wiring. The project fix would be to right-click on the clip and select "Channels \| Left Channel Only" or such.

November 27th, 2007, 11:42 AM	#9
Stuart Campbell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 400	Gerry, I know what you mean, it really is suspiciously like an inverse phase! However, there's no place for a phase fault!! XLR straight from mic to camera. Just the one cable!! Camera supplying phantom volts to mic. Maybe I should check with another cable. Failing that, is it possible the mic is duff? So, could you explain how it would sound fine over the cans then? Can't remember if I was monitoring playback or EtoE. Will check. Think I'll have to go through all options and test this out when I get time. Bill, the VO is recorded onto track 1 (left) and then once imported into Vegas I just select Left Only from Channels after right clicking the track. (obviously this just emphasises the fault) Can't get the talent back for ages! Typical, going to have to work with what I've got for now and get this sorted at the VERY last minute!!

November 27th, 2007, 02:50 PM	#10
Gerry Gallegos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 262	Bigg A toilet** try making the audio track as tall as you can and comparing the waves from right to left, if when you zoom in you don't see a timing difference (here a small difference will make a big sound difference ) look at that first. if they are not identical then you have to unlock them from each other and slide one to make identical with the other. this will at least tell you if the wave forms are in sync. have you listened to "playback" in the cans? does it sound like when you were recording? did you use the same camera to import the tape? what camera? how reflective is the VO room?

November 28th, 2007, 10:18 AM	#11
Bill Mecca Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 475	Stuart, could you post a short mp3 sample someplace, listening might spark some other ideas. It's a preplexing problem for sure. Wish I could be of more help. could your speakers be out of phase rather than the original signal? __________________ Award-winning Pine Barrens Documentary! Video, Audio, Music & More