Heat problem makes Vegas fail...

Kim Olsson · November 18th, 2007, 05:40 AM

great suggestions everyone...
Im not a PC technician, so my knowledge on rebuild my own PC is limited...
Ive tested the easiest ways to solve those problems, after this it sounds I have to leave the PC in for additional service. I'm first trying to check with my friends.

Anyway, after getting down the temperature from 61 Celsius to 53 Celsius while rendering, the project didnt render successfully...

I think it is the format i have choosen.

MPEG-2, 1280x720, 50,000 fps, progressive, output type: HDV, Video quality: High, full-resolution rendering quality: best......

When i lower the fps to 25, the project will finish the rendering with successs.
Problem is when my project (photomontage) using only 25fps, the pictures moving around very choppy. 50fps is the only way to solve this...

Somehow Vegas doesnt handle to complex rendering... WHY ??

Graham Bernard · November 18th, 2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kim Olsson

Somehow Vegas doesnt handle to complex rendering... WHY ??

Hmmm? I am not sure that that is correct or a fair comment on Vegas. Vegas is format agnostic. How it does this must be because it has some truly heavy duty algorithms and programming going on. Maybe because it IS capable that it will eventually do the job. What you may have is a local setup that may not be coping with the grunt of Vegas. Just add that into your equation - yeah?

However, try this as a suggestion. When I have complex FX-ing and I produce an interim AVI. Try a bit of this. You might like it.

Grazie

Kim Olsson · November 19th, 2007, 01:34 PM

Well... I have got the suggestion to change dynamic RAM to 0 (kept render threads to original 4), and did no other change what so ever.
I did, aw wnd you knohat, IT WORKED.
Problem is that the project is rendering the project for 15 hours. It would take 7 hours to render the project with Dynamic RAM settings on original (511MB), before the whole project became unstable...

This is fact. (What does Dynamic RAM preview with final rendering to do ??)
Why should the render be a success with lower it to 0 ? And why double the render time with this change ?

I have to believe Sony have done more wrong then me...

Kris Bird · November 19th, 2007, 03:41 PM

Is 61°c your peak temp? i.e. the max it reaches when under load? If so, it's not that high, certainly shouldn't be causing instability. 61°c idle is another matter, as your fully loaded temp would be >80, which is bad. Core2 generation chips don't self-throttle until (IIRC) 85-99, depending on model, so the point of actual damage is somewhere above that.

Kim Olsson · November 19th, 2007, 03:53 PM

Yes Kris, 61°c is my peak temp (since I removed one side of the case, its down to 55°c)
When my computer is Idle it is on 40-45°c.

If this isn't bad, why does then my PC application for monitor the temperature, warning me with an alarm. (the default threshold is 60°c) ??.
The application I use is my Asus motherboards PC Probe....

Bill Ravens · November 19th, 2007, 03:53 PM

when you select a size for dynamic RAM, it locks up that much memory exclusively for RAM preview. you, therefore, have that much less available for regular rendering.

Kim Olsson · November 19th, 2007, 04:02 PM

Yes Bill I know, thank you.
I have 4GB RAM on my PC (only 3GB availible since I use Windows x86).
I have enough with memory. This shouldn't make my rendering fail with an PC restart, a Sony Vegas error message or an Sony Vegas shutdown.

Even if i shrink Dynamic RAM preview to as little to 64MB or less, Vegas will still fail render with success... But still, I have enough.

Ian Hay · November 19th, 2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris Bird

Is 61°c your peak temp? i.e. the max it reaches when under load? If so, it's not that high, certainly shouldn't be causing instability. 61°c idle is another matter, as your fully loaded temp would be >80, which is bad. Core2 generation chips don't self-throttle until (IIRC) 85-99, depending on model, so the point of actual damage is somewhere above that.

This is right; 61°c is not near the Tjunction throttle temperatures for Core2 processors (85° or 100°c, depending on which model), and therefore shouldn't be the issue.

Interestingly, my CPU (QX6800 - quad @ 2.9GH or so) DOES run at about 80°c under full load, and idles at about 52-58°c depending. Believe me, I was panicking when I first got the system (prompting a lot of research about core temps). It is possible that my heatsink is not attached and thermal pasted as efficiently as it could be. However, I eventually stopped worrying about it because:

1. QX6800s in particular are known for running very hot; it may not actually be out of normal range;
2. The Tjunction for this chip is 100°c; i.e. I'm loading at a clear 20° lower than the point at which it will begin to throttle;
3. I have experienced exactly zero stability issues that I can attribute to full load use. (I have had stability issues doing other things that don't put the processor under full load, but have not had issues during full 4-core rendering processes, for example).

Kim, regardless of what PC Probe may be saying, you may need to look elsewhere for a cause for the render failures.

Duane Burleson · November 19th, 2007, 06:51 PM

Kim,

The default is just what they have set for Asus Probe software. It may be that the Asus Probe monitor program is used for a variety of motherboards / CPUs made by Asus. I used to have an Asus board and Probe software. You can go in and set you own warning threshholds. Heck, my laptop with a core 2 duo 2ghz runs at 60c any time I using it. If I'm watching video or editing it will go up to 75-80 and the fan comes on.

Duane

Matthew Chaboud · November 20th, 2007, 04:08 PM

- When thinking about your computer's cooling configuration, remember that all of the fans in the world blowing into a sealed space won't do anything more than swirl around hot air. Exhaust fans matter the most, so make sure that you pull plenty of air out of the back of your computer. Intake fans on the front can feed the space with cool air for a nice front->back movement. A properly put-together computer will generally see cooler temperatures with a closed case than with an open one.

- Your dynamic RAM amounts are generally better closer to 128MB. This *is* actually an amount of RAM that Vegas will use for rendering (not just preview), but it's a soft lower-limit. If Vegas needs some memory above that setting for rendering operations, it won't hesitate to take it. It's the same engine for preview/rendering, so Bill's comment isn't really true.

- You can diagnose things a bit with the *way* in which your project failed to render. If you had reboots after lowering your temperature, chances are that you have some bad RAM. Once the system/Vegas started using certain physical addresses, things went boom. If it's only Vegas crashing, that doesn't rule out a hardware problem, but it does point more towards the software.

- For some operations, like 3D rendering, the amount of memory taken by having multiple threads can be significant. If the preview RAM amount is close to 128MB, thread-count typically matters more. This number is also a *maximum* based on the number of logical processors on the system (hyperthreading makes 2 logical from 1 physical). That is, if you have only two cores, you won't have 4 render-threads. You'll have 2.

=Matt

Kim Olsson · November 20th, 2007, 05:07 PM

OK! I have researched a lot about my CPU, my temperature is stable and under normal temperature. This is based on the facts I read on several forums and news sites...

I even clocked it from 2.67GHz to 3.0GHz with my stock fan (It was apparently very easy).
The temperature has only increased with 5°c (on idle & when working).
I'm now aware that I have no heat problem... I raised the warning threshholds to 70°c... Thank you.

Matthew Chaboud - What do you mean with Bad RAM ? Are they broken ?
And yes, my project is a 3D rendering project...
And the rest you wrote i couldn't understand, my English is limited (Swedish is my original language). Is there any changes I should do within my project, you mean ?

Matthew Chaboud · November 24th, 2007, 11:31 PM

Kim, "bad RAM" means that some parts of the memory are defective.

That said, since you're doing 3D, lower the video rendering threads to 1. Each rendering thread hangs onto some cached buffers for 3D that can cause address-space starvation.

-Matt

Kim Olsson · November 25th, 2007, 04:31 AM

Ok... So can't I just buy new RAM's ?
And maybe I shall buy different RAM's with better MHz ?
Lets say a DDR3 over 1300MHz. Would that do any different.
Maybe that would do better?

Or is it just like this?

thnks..

Jeff Harper · November 25th, 2007, 06:49 AM

Kim, don't buy new RAM yet! First, do Matthew's suggestion.

1. Open Vegas 2. go to OPTIONS 3. then to PREFERENCES, 4. then open VIDEO. 5. Then find MAXIMUM NUMBER OF RENDERING THREADS 6. change to 1 (one).

See if that helps.

Kim Olsson · November 25th, 2007, 08:01 AM

Thnks Jeff,,, But I already tried that, it worked.

Problem is that render time have increased with 50% when I do that...
I have a dualcore... and I really want to use all my cores to do the render...
Or else I could of bought a single cpu PC...

All my project will be 3D compositions...

November 20th, 2007, 04:08 PM	#25
Matthew Chaboud Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 93	A few notes. - When thinking about your computer's cooling configuration, remember that all of the fans in the world blowing into a sealed space won't do anything more than swirl around hot air. Exhaust fans matter the most, so make sure that you pull plenty of air out of the back of your computer. Intake fans on the front can feed the space with cool air for a nice front->back movement. A properly put-together computer will generally see cooler temperatures with a closed case than with an open one. - Your dynamic RAM amounts are generally better closer to 128MB. This is actually an amount of RAM that Vegas will use for rendering (not just preview), but it's a soft lower-limit. If Vegas needs some memory above that setting for rendering operations, it won't hesitate to take it. It's the same engine for preview/rendering, so Bill's comment isn't really true. - You can diagnose things a bit with the way in which your project failed to render. If you had reboots after lowering your temperature, chances are that you have some bad RAM. Once the system/Vegas started using certain physical addresses, things went boom. If it's only Vegas crashing, that doesn't rule out a hardware problem, but it does point more towards the software. - For some operations, like 3D rendering, the amount of memory taken by having multiple threads can be significant. If the preview RAM amount is close to 128MB, thread-count typically matters more. This number is also a maximum based on the number of logical processors on the system (hyperthreading makes 2 logical from 1 physical). That is, if you have only two cores, you won't have 4 render-threads. You'll have 2. =Matt

November 18th, 2007, 05:40 AM	#16
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	great suggestions everyone... Im not a PC technician, so my knowledge on rebuild my own PC is limited... Ive tested the easiest ways to solve those problems, after this it sounds I have to leave the PC in for additional service. I'm first trying to check with my friends. Anyway, after getting down the temperature from 61 Celsius to 53 Celsius while rendering, the project didnt render successfully... I think it is the format i have choosen. MPEG-2, 1280x720, 50,000 fps, progressive, output type: HDV, Video quality: High, full-resolution rendering quality: best...... When i lower the fps to 25, the project will finish the rendering with successs. Problem is when my project (photomontage) using only 25fps, the pictures moving around very choppy. 50fps is the only way to solve this... Somehow Vegas doesnt handle to complex rendering... WHY ??

November 19th, 2007, 01:34 PM	#18
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Well... I have got the suggestion to change dynamic RAM to 0 (kept render threads to original 4), and did no other change what so ever. I did, aw wnd you knohat, IT WORKED. Problem is that the project is rendering the project for 15 hours. It would take 7 hours to render the project with Dynamic RAM settings on original (511MB), before the whole project became unstable... This is fact. (What does Dynamic RAM preview with final rendering to do ??) Why should the render be a success with lower it to 0 ? And why double the render time with this change ? I have to believe Sony have done more wrong then me...

November 19th, 2007, 03:41 PM	#19
Kris Bird Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 173	Is 61°c your peak temp? i.e. the max it reaches when under load? If so, it's not that high, certainly shouldn't be causing instability. 61°c idle is another matter, as your fully loaded temp would be >80, which is bad. Core2 generation chips don't self-throttle until (IIRC) 85-99, depending on model, so the point of actual damage is somewhere above that.

November 19th, 2007, 03:53 PM	#20
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Yes Kris, 61°c is my peak temp (since I removed one side of the case, its down to 55°c) When my computer is Idle it is on 40-45°c. If this isn't bad, why does then my PC application for monitor the temperature, warning me with an alarm. (the default threshold is 60°c) ??. The application I use is my Asus motherboards PC Probe....

November 19th, 2007, 03:53 PM	#21
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	when you select a size for dynamic RAM, it locks up that much memory exclusively for RAM preview. you, therefore, have that much less available for regular rendering.

November 19th, 2007, 04:02 PM	#22
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Yes Bill I know, thank you. I have 4GB RAM on my PC (only 3GB availible since I use Windows x86). I have enough with memory. This shouldn't make my rendering fail with an PC restart, a Sony Vegas error message or an Sony Vegas shutdown. Even if i shrink Dynamic RAM preview to as little to 64MB or less, Vegas will still fail render with success... But still, I have enough.

November 19th, 2007, 06:51 PM	#24
Duane Burleson Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sterling Heights, Michigan Posts: 105	Kim, The default is just what they have set for Asus Probe software. It may be that the Asus Probe monitor program is used for a variety of motherboards / CPUs made by Asus. I used to have an Asus board and Probe software. You can go in and set you own warning threshholds. Heck, my laptop with a core 2 duo 2ghz runs at 60c any time I using it. If I'm watching video or editing it will go up to 75-80 and the fan comes on. Duane

November 20th, 2007, 05:07 PM	#26
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	OK! I have researched a lot about my CPU, my temperature is stable and under normal temperature. This is based on the facts I read on several forums and news sites... I even clocked it from 2.67GHz to 3.0GHz with my stock fan (It was apparently very easy). The temperature has only increased with 5°c (on idle & when working). I'm now aware that I have no heat problem... I raised the warning threshholds to 70°c... Thank you. Matthew Chaboud - What do you mean with Bad RAM ? Are they broken ? And yes, my project is a 3D rendering project... And the rest you wrote i couldn't understand, my English is limited (Swedish is my original language). Is there any changes I should do within my project, you mean ?

November 24th, 2007, 11:31 PM	#27
Matthew Chaboud Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 93	Kim, "bad RAM" means that some parts of the memory are defective. That said, since you're doing 3D, lower the video rendering threads to 1. Each rendering thread hangs onto some cached buffers for 3D that can cause address-space starvation. -Matt

November 25th, 2007, 04:31 AM	#28
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Ok... So can't I just buy new RAM's ? And maybe I shall buy different RAM's with better MHz ? Lets say a DDR3 over 1300MHz. Would that do any different. Maybe that would do better? Or is it just like this? thnks..

November 25th, 2007, 06:49 AM	#29
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Kim, don't buy new RAM yet! First, do Matthew's suggestion. 1. Open Vegas 2. go to OPTIONS 3. then to PREFERENCES, 4. then open VIDEO. 5. Then find MAXIMUM NUMBER OF RENDERING THREADS 6. change to 1 (one). See if that helps.

November 25th, 2007, 08:01 AM	#30
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Thnks Jeff,,, But I already tried that, it worked. Problem is that render time have increased with 50% when I do that... I have a dualcore... and I really want to use all my cores to do the render... Or else I could of bought a single cpu PC... All my project will be 3D compositions...